Manhattan Slots - $104 Withdrawal fee to Neteller

[Lucky Loser]

Its profit tax. LOL.

How dare a player win.

[spiderlegz]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

You applied this retroperspectively to all his withdrawals, not just the last one.
And basically that term allows you to impose it anytime on any player when you see fit. What a sucky term, roguish IMO.

BTW palapaisti, wasnt it ClubWorld that changed your betsizes on table games to zero during wagering?

[roygen]

Hi Guys,


The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

So if the OP had lost all his deposits would the casino contribute a cash refund with no wagering requirement ? I think NOT - Not impressed,not impressed at all

[winbig]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

Friends contribute gas money to their friends. Players don't contribute money towards withdrawal costs to a casino.

How did the player abuse the system?

And unless I'm mistaken, the OP was surprised of this charge, so apparently CW broke their own T&C by not notifying the player in advance.

edit: I forgot to mention the fact that CW does pass on processing costs to the players, if they make more than 1 withdrawal in a month. That contradicts your statement saying there is no situation, other than rule 18, of CW's T&C, that you'll pass on processing fees to the player.

[palapaisti]

You applied this retroperspectively to all his withdrawals, not just the last one.
And basically that term allows you to impose it anytime on any player when you see fit. What a sucky term, roguish IMO.

BTW palapaisti, wasnt it ClubWorld that changed your betsizes on table games to zero during wagering?

I have played their bonuses and not broken any rules. Yes, I won couple of thousand dollars from them about 10 months ago. They did not inform me at all for the fee and it was really diffucult to find out what's the problem because their email support was ignoring my emails. Reputable casinos do not take that kind of fees, that's why I posted a complaint here even though it's not worth my time fighting for $104.

The casino that changed my betsizes for all table games to zero was AllStar Slots (CWC owned casino). They just disconnected me from casino while I was trying to fulfill wagering requirements for sign-up bonus. I was still able to play Video Poker so I was too lazy to make a complaint.

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Guys,

We do not pass any processing costs on to players apart from in situations covered by point 18 of our terms of use:

18. In cases where players are participating in strategies or patterns of play that CWCUSD in its sole discretion deems to be abusive we reserve the right, prior to closing the account, to deduct any processing costs associated with the account from the value of the final payment. You will be notified in advance of any deductions of this nature being made.

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

So what! He was lucky, and on top of that, disciplined.

Term 18 is used in cases identified as "abuse". Surely, merely being in profit is NOT "abuse", it is what happens normally in the casino environment.

Once it was seen that his play was becoming "abusive", WHY was he allowed to continue redeeming bonuses, rather than having them blocked until he "demonstrated willingless to risk his own funds". This would have quickly got rid of him if he was really "abusing" the system in any way.

Instead of this, you let him carry on playing, and redeeming coupons, BUT someone sat watching his play, and dicked him around (allegedly). He reports being disconnected, and then finding his betting limits reset to zero when he got back.

DID THIS HAPPEN?
This is a VERY VERY important issue, because there have been many denials from RTG operators that they ever do this, and this accusation has been levelled at the Virtual casino brands, and even CONFIRMED as having been done by an ex employee (phinqster), who said some accounts were watched, and winning players were disconnected deliberately, and their accounts "dicked around with" to break their stride, and even lower the odds on some games.

I have played their bonuses and not broken any rules. Yes, I won couple of thousand dollars from them about 10 months ago. They did not inform me at all for the fee and it was really diffucult to find out what's the problem because their email support was ignoring my emails. Reputable casinos do not take that kind of fees, that's why I posted a complaint here even though it's not worth my time fighting for $104.

The casino that changed my betsizes for all table games to zero was AllStar Slots (CWC owned casino). They just disconnected me from casino while I was trying to fulfill wagering requirements for sign-up bonus. I was still able to play Video Poker so I was too lazy to make a complaint.

Clearly a bonus player, BUT you knew this TEN MONTHS AGO. Why then, didn't he receive a warning or bonus ban at that point. It took until this final withdrawal before you decided to apply charges RETROSPECTIVELY for nothing more "abusive" than playing with bonuses he was eligible for, and winning a couple of thousand from them.

$104 may not be much for someone in profit by $2000+, but the problem is the WAY IT WAS DONE, underhand, and without prior warning that this depositing and playing behaviour was not acceptable, and that a continuation of said behaviour would lead to charges being levied. It's no more than a variant of "bait & switch".

I know from experience that you can easily switch off promotions for accounts deemed too profitable for players, and replace them with a low percentage generic coupon in the hope they are undisciplined enough to feed their profits back.

With many more casinos than before, the introduction of a "1 welcome bonus over the entire group" policy would plug the gap where players ONLY take the welcome bonus, and then move on to a sister casino to repeat the process. The OP certainly seems to have included this as part of his overall "abusive" playing strategy, BUT there is nothing against this in the rules, and all he did was to be lucky enough to make a profit despite the odds being against him.

[winbig]

Anyone that can clear 20-30x+ WR needs a pat on the back along with their withdrawal...lol

[Pinababy69]

The OP has successfully cashed out many thousands of dollars in profit, and so I am surprised that he is so averse to contributing $104 towards the processing costs.

Regards
Tom

Tom, I like you and I don't think you run a bad operation....but the way you have worded that above quote, is mind blowing to me. Contributing to processing costs? You're kidding right? I'm really hoping that it just didn't come across how you really meant to say it maybe?

Fact is....Club World has done this a couple of times before...that we know of that is. There are probably other players who have had these fees applied to their accounts, but just accepted it, or who never posted on this forum, or any other.

Links for reference below. The first case saw fees of $1311 being imposed, and I think the player was up at the casino overall. After using the PAB service, the fees were returned to the player, and rightly so.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...st-1311-a.html

In the second case (first chronologically), the poster had $1,400 in fees deducted retroactively (from a withdrawal), for all previous deposits he had made..even though he claimed he was down about 8K overall at the casino. It is worth noting that the OP never filed a PAB, so we only have his side of the story. He also made a very valid point in his original post...what if his withdrawal had only been $1,300....would they have confiscated the whole thing under the guise of processing fees?

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ithdrawal.html

Point of this is that, CWC are in the habit of doing this and continue to do it even after having to return the fees to a player who was smart enough to PAB.

Tom, why are you still doing this? IMO, it is rogue behaviour to charge people retroactively for deposits and/or withdrawals.

In re: the other thread and bonuses....personally, I have no problem with the casino not offering the poster bonuses. He played the first one and cashed out. As long as that was honoured, and his cashout paid..it's up to you what you do from there.

But this is entirely different, and quite frankly I'm surprised to see yet another thread popping up concerning the exact same thing. If you feel the need to charge a processing fee, then you had better be upfront about it, and inform the player ahead of time. Taking fees for deposits and withdrawals already processed and/or paid out, is not becoming of an accredited casino. Sorry.

[brianzz]

Contributing? Maybe you mean donating. Is CWC not making enough off the 94% slots? Sheesh. If I could find a business where people made an effort to seek me out and give me money for a chance to win something, that's 100% negative expectation to being with. I'd gladly pay all the fees associated with doing that business.. hello cost of business.

This is a great example of greed, pure and simple. You win, we'll pay but you'll pay too

The shit these online casinos get away with astounds me, if a B&M casino tried to pull some of these stunts people would be running out the door in droves. And this was just 3 examples of this happening.. how many more hundred have they kept from people that never said anything?

[Nate]

Its profit tax. LOL.

How dare a player win.

Lmao... ...

Some of these threads just get sicker by the moment... Come On!!!! Players need to jump through Fire Rings and face all sorts of crap just for taking a bonus the casino offered and withdrawing...

"contributing to Processing costs" OMG... LOL