Rushmore- sucky rule to confiscate funds

[elscrabinda]

I'm just going to dip my toe in here to make a couple points that I think need making:

1. Somewhere back in the thread I believe someone said something like "no point in doing a PAB (before posting) because it's clear that the T&Cs were violated".
   
   Bad assumption: casinos will often resolve issues as good-will gestures to players even though the player was in error but they usually only do this IF THE PLAYER HAS COME TO THEM FIRST, ie not made it a public issue.
   
   Of course once you post about it you're taking your chances. Most casino peeps don't like being bullied or blackmailed, go figure , so they're generally in a less giving mood once that has happened.
   
   The point being that PAB BEFORE YOU POST is generally a wise course if you really want your best chances at getting a good resolution. Once you post you're gambling that you can twist the casino peeps arm into doing what you want and that is usually a pretty lousy bet.
   .
2. Fraudsters will often leave their winnings to simmer for a while, sometimes a long while, in the hopes that the details of their doings will be lost in the fog of time.
   
   It's a tactic based on ignorance -- most play records are digital and can sit on the shelf for quite some time without going off -- but hey, they're fraudsters so what do you expect.
   
   Anyway, point is, casinos are partly fighting this issue too when it comes to the "staledate confiscation" policies.

So there it is. Just my 2¢.

Max, I contacted Louise out of courtesy and only when both she and customer support made it clear that they weren't going to budge on this then I posted. I had no intention of circumventing the usual way of doing things, but I didn't want to waste your time on an issue where they were technically in the right and seemingly had no intention of using their discretion to act more reasonably.

I hope you're just making a general point about the issue of public posting because otherwise I resent the implication that I started this thread to "bully and blackmail". I didn't. Louise and customer support can confirm that I didn't threaten them with going public or anything of the sort, and you can see from my posts in this thread that the only request I have made of them is to explain the justification for doing it, other than "we're allowed to". I think the casino acted unreasonably, and I think others should be made aware of it.

[Casinomeister]

Okay - turns out you made a deposit using Click2Pay - you requested a withdrawal via a check. They emailed you back stating that they could only send you funds back to Click2pay. You never responded - and that was about two years ago.

Why did you just let this go? Do you still have the Click2Pay account? Why didn't you just request your funds to go back where they came from?

[Jasminebed]

One thing everyone needs to remember - these are winnings, right? Not the actual funds that the player deposited - so in other words, the player is not out of pocket.

I would consider this unfair if the casino wiped the account clean and included deposited funds, but from what I can tell, this didn't happen.

Without wanting to be facetious, how do you end up with "1 or 2 thousand" in your account without depositing? I guess I could have received a no deposit bonus (I didn't) but I'm not sure why you jumped to that kind of conclusion? I honestly can't remember how I won there, chances are there was a bonus involved, but it most definitely included deposit(s).

Well, I believe once a player has won funds, and adhered to the terms of any bonus taken, those funds ARE theirs. Otherwise, every PAB for XYZ casino has not paid me would be dismissed as the money didn't hit your bank account (or ewallet) it wasn't really yours. Since the casino admits to play in excess of $100K, it seems playthrough requirements were probably met, and even if not, the player should have their account reactivated so they may continue to play.

I do read terms and conditions for Casinos I play at. While I may not always recall the finer details of these terms, I read them carefully.

I went and checked Buzzluck's terms regarding inactive or dormant accounts.

If an account remains inactive for a period of 30 months or more, Buzzluck has the right to deactivate said account and seize funds. In the eventuality that a request has been made from the account holder to return the available funds, Buzzluck will reactivate the account and reload funds as they were originally, providing that no fraudulent activity has taken place.

While it may seem reasonable that a casino may seize funds after a period of time, I believe they have an obligation to return them upon request.

I would hope that monies forfeited to the LGA would offer an avenue for players to recover funds from the governing body, less a reasonable sum for fees.

I've asked Inetbet also to provide me with a link for their policy.

32Red makes no mention of any policy regarding inactive accounts, so I didn't agree to seizure there.

From 3Dice's Terms of Service:

In compliance with terms and applicable law, when your account is closed or terminated, you will be entitled to the returnable funds in that account, less deduction of eventual processing fees.3DICE.COM reserves the right to refuse or cancel your registration and/or account for any reason whatsoever at any time without notice to you. Any balance in the account at the time of such cancellation will be credited to your credit card or other financial instrument,and/or sent to you by check to your registered address.Notwithstanding the aforementioned and without limiting other remedies 3DICE.COM reserves the right to void any winnings and to withhold any balance in your account where 3DICE.COM determines that you have breached any of these terms,where suspicion of evidence of manipulation of 3DICE.COM financial system or of your or another customer’s account arises, if 3DICE.COM has grounds to believe that you are using the site for purposes other than those for which it was intended,committing any offense, or if your actions may cause legal liability for you, other users or for 3DICE.COM.

If there is no activity in your account for a period of 180 days, 3DICE.COM may consider your account to be inactive. 3DICE.COM will close your account due to inactivity after 180 days.

Rushmore made no efforts to pay this player (which, due to the OP's failure to return the necessary ID documents, they IMO were not obligated to).

Many casinos I've joined have the right to refuse WINNINGS if ID documents are not provided, but that does not give them the right to retain deposits as well. And this is not the basis of Rushmore's refusal to pay the player their funds, but a SEIZURE and FORFEITURE of a dormant account.

This thread made me go check the Terms and Conditions at the casinos I am a regular depositor at. I've read threads here at CM before about dormant accounts and the fees some places charge, so it is a clause I look for.

Inactive accounts can happen for many reasons. And to simply seize funds as "It is in our terms and conditions" is not valid. I know I have read, and probably joined, casinos where amounts under $1.00, and possible even under $10.00 will not be returned, but we are not talking a few cents forgotten.

[elscrabinda]

Okay - turns out you made a deposit using Click2Pay - you requested a withdrawal via a check. They emailed you back stating that they could only send you funds back to Click2pay. You never responded - and that was about two years ago.

Why did you just let this go? Do you still have the Click2Pay account? Why didn't you just request your funds to go back where they came from?

Thanks for the info. As it was a long time ago, the details are not fresh in my mind so i don't know why I would have done this. Indeed I can think of no reason why I would have done this other than a c2p withdrawal not being allowed through the cashier. I try to avoid cheques in general and much prefer c2p/neteller. My email account has no record of this- just the usual request for utility bills etc which I put off and put off until I forgot about it.

I've checked my C2P records from around that time and see that I made over $3000 of deposits in the few days that I played there. Out of interest, what was my balance before my account was closed? (p.s. I realise I'm not going to win many friends by my apparent carelessness and forgetfullness with large amounts of money, but please don't hold that against me)

[maxd]

Max, I contacted Louise out of courtesy ... I resent the implication that I started this thread to "bully and blackmail".

You guys gotta chill a bit! My post was completely general, not directed at anyone in particular. Just trying to get the word out on these things because false impressions can really ruin OTHER people's issues.

Yeesh.

[suzecat]

If you don't like them - don't sign up.

Sounds good to me! The confiscation of the OP's balance could end up costing this casino much more than it gained, IMO.

[Pulver]

Well, we're not lawyers - never claimed to be, and this is a common term that's posted in most terms and conditions. Hell, the casinos licensed in Malta turn the winnings over to the LGA after 180 days

When you sign up at an online casino, you agreed to the terms. It's your responsibility to abide by them whether you think they are fair or not. If you don't like them - don't sign up. It's pretty simple

You are right on that one. I don't like the course Rushmore is heading with all these crap rules and lousy customer service. I have therefor decided to unistall Cherry Red, Rushmore and Slots Oasis from my computer.

[denamoutz]

i was thinking about making a deposit at Rushmore, but because of this i won't!!! I know what it states in the T&C's but if they can't work with the customer, what other kind of problems would there be if i had a problem with them? Would they treat me this way also?

[Jasminebed]

Just to update my earlier post, I received the following response from Inetbet:

We have one clause that we have on dormant accounts, which I have copied below for you.
I would mention that in 11 years we have never envoked this once, neither has any account ever been closed for inactivity or funds removed.
I hope this assists.
Kind regards
CSR Alan



j. If you do not log onto your Casino account for a period of 180 days, any balance in your account will be placed under review, subject to aditional information being obtained by iNetBet. (Balances may be zeroed or accounts closed).

[uungy]

They may be sticking to their terms, but the term is completely rogue, and fit for the Crystal Palace group

By the way, they have another term in their terms and conditions rushmorecasino.com/TermsAndConditions

Player shall not participate in the Games, open, use or reuse an account, enter the Web site, or the Casino, nor accept any Prize if Player does not fully understand, agree to, become a party to, and shall abide by, without exception, all rules, regulations, terms and conditions contained herein and as such rules, regulations, terms and conditions may change periodically.

This means that they can simply void anyones play, and knowing them, they will do it, if you cant prove "beyond and doubt" that you have read the terms.

They deserve to go into the deep dark pit IMHO, for the simple fact that they actually implement it!