PartyCasino Unfair Terms

[Rusty]

Here is Party Casinos response;

Thank you for contacting Customer Service.

As you know, before a player creates an account with us, he must agree to our Terms and Conditions. These Terms and Conditions are the same for all our players and when a customer agrees to them, he needs to abide by those rules. You can check the full Standard Terms and Conditions of Use from the link below:

https://secure.partyaccount.com/abou...formation_s.do

The rule of accumulating a certain amount of points before being able to make a withdrawal is indeed present in our Terms and Conditions. This condition exists solely for security purposes to prevent players from using their accounts with us simply as a tool to transfer money in and out. After all, we are a gaming site and the basic idea to transfer money into an account should be to use the funds for gaming purposes.

Also, in the same section of the Terms and Conditions there is a link to our 'How to Earn PartyPoints' page, which shows in details how a player can earn points on our different games. This way our customers can check how it would be most convenient for them to collect the required 15% in points and be able to make a withdrawal. You can check out those details from the link below:

https://secure.partyaccount.com/pc/p..._earnpoints.do

As you can see, we do not hide any information from our players, and we - the Customer Service - are always there if anyone needs clarification on the matter. I hope I have managed to explain our position on the matter to you. If a specific player has any complaints or needs further assistance on the matter, we would appreciate it if he addresses us directly by writing us an email or simply giving us a call - because this is the only way we can give account-specific information.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us at any time.

Thank you for choosing us as your online gaming site.

Best Regards,

Atanas,

So it would seem Blackjack players would have to wager 45Xdeposit before allowed to cashout and Party Casino see this as convenient for the player.

Bryan?

[Rusty]

After seeking further clarification I have received a reply from Party Casino that this interpretation of their Terms is correct.
A deposit without bonus would indeed need to be wagered 45X on blackjack before the player is eligible to cashout their own funds.
This is the reason they give for imposing such unfair restrictions.

This rule of earning 15% of the deposit amount in Party Points is there for security purposes. This is to prevent unlawful activities such as money dumping, money laundering, etc.

This obviously a nonsense reply.
The fact that such wagering requirements are buried within a block of text that is almost unfathomable and these wagering requirements are surreptitiously implemented and disguised by being stated as "15% of deposit in party points" instead of broken down into plain English is strong evidence this is nothing more than a scam to force players to play when they may otherwise wish not to do so.


Surely these are unfair terms and potential players need to be warned before depositing.

[maxd]

If you want B to weigh in on this it might be wise to alert him to it via PM. There's a lot of stuff on his plate and it could take a while for him to pop in here if he's busy elsewhere.

[Rusty]

If you want B to weigh in on this it might be wise to alert him to it via PM. There's a lot of stuff on his plate and it could take a while for him to pop in here if he's busy elsewhere.

Thanks Max, I PM'd him just after posting as I was surprised he had not commented on this.
I sometimes forget how busy he must be.

[Casinomeister]

Thanks Max, I PM'd him just after posting as I was surprised he had not commented on this.
I sometimes forget how busy he must be.

Yeah, I'm taking care of a number of things at the moment - to include reflooring the room in the attic, and goin' to town on the weeds in the back. Never a dull moment.

I'll contact the people over at Party Gaming to see if they can take a look at this. I can understand protecting oneself from money laundering - thus a wagering requirement for regular play (no bonus), but 45x seems a bit steep to me. Side note - didn't 888.com have something similar? Can't remember.

Nevertheless, it should not be hidden - but we are responsible to read ALL terms and conditions, aren't we?

[Rusty]

Yeah, I'm taking care of a number of things at the moment - to include reflooring the room in the attic, and goin' to town on the weeds in the back. Never a dull moment.

I'll contact the people over at Party Gaming to see if they can take a look at this. I can understand protecting oneself from money laundering - thus a wagering requirement for regular play (no bonus), but 45x seems a bit steep to me. Side note - didn't 888.com have something similar? Can't remember.

Nevertheless, it should not be hidden - but we are responsible to read ALL terms and conditions, aren't we?

Yes I agree but the Casino has a moral responsibility to ensure those T&C's are clear and fair to the player.
As you can see the T&C is neither of these.

If they have a T&C stating they will remove every second deposit would that make it OK?
I sent them a follow up email myself before posting and I will PM you with the correspondence I have had with them.

[spearmaster]

I don't buy the money laundering part - unless they allow money to be transferred to other accounts.

If a deposit is made without bonus, the maximum playthrough I would personally tolerate is 1x deposit.

[WonderingSpirit]

I would also like to add that the value is calculated based on USD so if as I did you deposit in a currency which is stronger, then your deposit is converted to the dollar amount and the 15% is based on that. So if you deposit 1000 GBP they convert it to 1500 USD and require you to acheive party points equivelent to 15% of that which is 225 rather than equivelent to 112.50 which is 15% of GBP.

It really is terrible. Here is a list of how the points are accrued:

Single-deck blackjack $200
Roulette $50
Las Vegas Downtown Blackjack $150
Baccarat $50
Progressive slots $25
Table poker $25
Video poker $20
Slots $10
Keno $10
Casino War $20
Red Dog $20
Blackjack – Bonus Pairs $25
Virtual racing $5

So if I am playing Single Deck BJ with a £1000 deposit I must acheive 225 party points and need to wager 200*225 which is 450,000 just to be able to cashout my own money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please tell me I have calculated this wrongly!

15% of 1000 is 150. 150*200 = 30,000 not 450,000 which equals 30x WR

progressive slots makes it 3,75 xWR
slots 1,5 x WR
virtual racing 0,75 x WR

I cashed out a few times at partygaming. Didnt know about the 15% of deposit wagered, but has never had any problems cashing out. So if I understand this right, If I make a deposit of 50$ I must get 7,5 $ worth of partypoints

[Rusty]

15% of 1000 is 150. 150*200 = 30,000 not 450,000 which equals 30x WR

progressive slots makes it 3,75 xWR
slots 1,5 x WR
virtual racing 0,75 x WR

I cashed out a few times at partygaming. Didnt know about the 15% of deposit wagered, but has never had any problems cashing out. So if I understand this right, If I make a deposit of 50$ I must get 7,5 $ worth of partypoints

100 deposit=15 points@ $200 per point for BJ so yes 30X deposit.

Yes you would need 7.5 Party points on a $50 deposit.

[vinylweatherman]

Their response is bullshit. The bit about players having to check for the most convenient way to accumulate points is all about FORCING players to play a fair bit of slots with their gameplay, whether or not they have taken a bonus.

Winward casino pulled this stunt on a player who steadfastly refused to accept the welcome bonus, which Winward were trying to insist was compulsory. They agreed not to give the bonus to the player, but told them they had to wager the deposit 30x anyway, the same as if they had accepted the bonus.

Their response is a bit like saying - "If we have set a trap in our terms, it is the player's responsibility to find it".

There are LAWS about unfair terms, it is NOT the case legally that just because a customer slipped up & agreed to something they should have avoided like the plague it becomes binding. The terms can be assessed to see whether they are fair to the consumer. In law, the consumer is NOT expected to be a qualified legal expert, and terms can be classed as unfair if they are not clearly written, yet impose harsh conditions.

The "money laundering" excuse simply does not wash

There is no need for anywhere NEAR a 30x or 45x WR on a plain deposit to be imposed, in fact, this is most probably a breach of the rules surrounding responsible gambling, as the terms prevent any meaningful bankroll management by players, and in particular the ability to cash out all, or some, of their pile after a big win, or a good run.
Nearly all casinos impose a 1x WR on deposits to prevent "money laundering", and others limit the number of FREE deposits and withdrawals a player may make, which is another method of preventing excessive churning of funds.
Once a player has supplied all their ID to the casino, and this has been verified, then the risk almost vanishes UNLESS it is possible to move money from one player to another, such as by "chip dumping"

Responsible gambling has been discussed at length, and the BIGGEST problem has been where players have been unable to get their winnings out of their casino balance, or where a reverse is available for an extended time, and players give in to temptation.

The terms at Party push all the WRONG buttons. The player is forced to have their bankroll available in their casino balance until they have earned this 15% in Party Points, and this presses ANOTHER "wrong" button for the player who wants to get a win out quickly, but lacks the points - they will bet big to "get it over with", and will more likely than not lose it all.