Betfair Casino problem

[dukesy]

Apologies for the long post, but this complaint has been ongoing for almost 2 months now.


I received an email from Betfair a couple of months ago and logged on, deposited a small amount of cash and decided to try out their new slots.

Played some small stakes and thought it a little odd that (in spite of playing max lines), not one single spin won anything. Odd me thinks

So I quit and went to my bet history where there are a number of “winning” lines.

I thought this was odd, so i emailed them to ask them to have a look at it for me. They responded with (and i quote)

I have had a look into the games you provided the Transaction ID's for and, unfortunately, there were no winning lines within your session. I have attached the game resolution of the last spin, as you mentioned it in particular, for your perusal. However, should you require game resolutions for each of the transactions you listed please do not hesitate to contact us so that we can forward them all to you.

Hmm...Odd i thought.. Cos there were quite clearly winning lines on their OWN resolution. See image below.



So i query AGAIN pointing out that their own "resolution" showed winning lines on two specific lines.

I recieved THIS response from someone else.

Further to your e-mail below, please note that after looking through the resolution for game Fruit Party I can confirm that you did infact win in line 3 and 9, and you also got credited for these wins as it shows in in your transaction history, which I have attached for your reference.

Interesting. So it went from "you didnt win" to "you did win, and was paid". But i could see no payouts ? How odd.

I query yet again. Asking them to review the entire session. I then recieve this response

I have looked into the last game (transaction XXXXXXXXX) and can confirm that there were no winning lines during this session. Attached is the result of the game, which was forwarded originally by my colleague, where it clearly shows there were no winning bets. If you still feel there was an error please specify why you think this should be a winning bet in order for us to investigate further.

(My emphasis not theirs)

So NOW it would appear that i didnt win after all. This was starting to grate a little now. Surely the fact that they have started contradicted themselves is worrying. Their own CS staff simply dont understand their own games. So i decide to ask them to review AGAIN (knowing i am right)

Now it all goes quiet. 6 Days later another betfair CS responds with

Please note that we have re-checked this issue and can confirm that as already stated by my colleagues, unfortunately, there were no payouts during these lines of the Fruit Party slot machine.



I trust this issue is now resolved.

Interesting... So they acknowledge that there were no PAYOUTS. Note subtle difference between that and WINNING LINES. Curiouser and curiouser.

So....Being the patient man that I am i ask them to review AGAIN (the session, not just the one game). I then recieve THIS response

Kindly know that I have forwarded your details along with the Game in question onto our Casino Manager to investigate your matter further.

They will look into your matter at the earliest opportunity. We will get back to you as soon as we have their response.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation with this matter.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

Finally...it appears that it is finally going to be looked at by some one else who perhaps understands the problem.

8 days pass. it is now over a MONTH since query originally initiated. I giddy them up and get told

Further to your correspondence with my colleague yesterday, please be advised that we are still awaiting a response from our Casino Providers. Unfortunately, we do need to wait until they have fully investigated the matter so that we can act in accordance with their advice. We will get back to you as soon as we receive a response from their end.

I would like to apologize for any delays in getting this resolved and thank you for your patience regarding the matter.

At this point, I get in touch with their representative on this site (Who, i must say has been expemplary in his levels of contact and effort). he says it will be looked into. I appreciate it is out of his hands, but he is the only person i can vent to !

He is kind enough to pass onto "management", who promise a resolution by the friday of that week. Come friday PM, nothing heard, i ask again, and he says "give me til wednesday". We give it til wednesday. Wednesday comes and goes and we are asked to give it til friday. We do.

Their resolution then finally comes through !!!!!

and i Quote

The winnings of your slots game that have not been awarded to you have been a result of a faulty glitch within the game. (cut for brevity) Unfortunately, the time it took for the technical department of our software providers to come back to us with this information, resulting in our delayed reply to you, is absolutely unacceptable by any standards.



In view of this, please accept a bonus in value of GBP £20 which has already been applied to your account and which you will need to wager only one time to turn it into a withdrawable amount. Please note that any bonus applied by our casino has a life-time span of 14 days during which it will need to be wagered in order to meet the requirements.

But their resolution only covers 6 games. NOT the entire "faulty" session. For some reason (deliberate or otherwise), i am unable to view my bet history, but do have some of it from that session cut and pasted (phew) and it clearly shows well over 20 games. NOT the 6 they have looked at. So i query it again, pointing out that they have only reviewd 6 out of 30-40 games,(i cant tell how many cos the history has "gone")

I have now had the following response

I’m sorry to hear that our resolution is not sufficient for you. The information that has been sent to you contains the information with regards to the hands that you have had issues with and put forward a complain about.



The audit trail of the hands you have had issue with shows the amount you wagered and were entitled to win. Regretfully, the communication between our customer case services and your selves was admittedly poor. We understand that the situation you were put into was stressful on your part and with full understanding and sincere apologies we have bonused your account in excess of 500% of the amount that was due to you hoping that that will be sufficient compensation.



We now consider this matter to be closed and we will not enter into any further correspondence.

So they have offered 5x the "winnings" of the 6 hands, but ignored the others in the "faulty" session.

I am wondering how to progress this in a way that doesnt seem like i am gettting personal. RedArmy has been nothing other than helpful, and i appreciate that this is NOT his fault. But someone needs to step up to the plate and accept responsibilty. This is NOT about the cash. It was low stakes (as i was trying out a new slot). but what IF it had been thousands instead of tens of pounds. Their own staff didnt understand the games, refused to believe that there had been an error, then offered a derisory amount in return, and attached WR to it !!

Had i not have persued this down, i would have been fobbed off with nothing. As it is, i am still out of pocket, but i cant tell how much as my hand history has "gone".

I dont know what i want to happen, but if a casino cannot be trusted to

a) payout correctly
b) understand their own games
c) refund monies lost during "faulty sessions
d) elevate and respond to queries in a timely manner
e) Leave their OWN Staff (RA) in a position of uslessness
f) Refuse to investigate genuine complaints further

It makes me wonder how they remain accredited with anyone.

[maxd]

I'll alert the rep about this ASAP.

[dukesy]

Many thanks

RedArmy is aware of it, and HAD been very helpful, but it would appear that it has been taken out of his hands now (hence my posting here).

But thanks !!!

Lets see if this does any good.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by betfair cs
The winnings of your slots game that have not been awarded to you have been a result of a faulty glitch within the game.

Here we go again, the "technical glitch" (aka the English Harbor defense) is trotted out yet again.

And yet again the complainant is told in the first instance, repeatedly and emphatically, that he/she is wrong and to go away. Standard online Casino fare.

Reading the OP's problems I just kept nodding my head:

No play history
Technical glitch
CSR in denial
Inadequate compensation
Nothing to be be done for similarly affected players
Matter NOT resolved

All this from Betfair, which up until they commissioned an online casino, behaved with impeccable credentials, and championed the cause for transparency and integrity with respect to online gaming transactions.

Look at them now.

>

[dukesy]

That quote made me laugh outloud !!!!

Prob in industry too long !!!!

I have been told by RA that it is being looked at....

will keep you updated

Dukesy

[dukesy]

The only issue that can be admitted to, is prolonged and confusing correspondence with our customer care, as you were informed in the final response. We have since then taken action in that respect and tried to compensate you for your troubles in excess of what you had lost.

As for the 20 or so hands that you requested history for, since the very beginning you were asking for the history of FAULTY hands that were not paid out to you, which in the end you were supplied with.

At no point have you suggested that you had an issue with over 20 faulty hands, nor does it make sense that you would continue playing such a high number of hands on a game that is not paying you out.

We have come to a conclusion and the final amount that you needed to be awarded based on your audit trail. You have then been credited with that amount, and above all been awarded over 5 times the amount in bonus funds with our sincere apologies for the way our customer care had treated you. Unfortunately, we can never be as pro-active as we would like to and cases like this one do happen occasionally.

You are still perusing this issue, although you have been credited over and above what you should have been awarded, I really have to stand behind the decision of the management and agree that there is nothing further that we can do.

Then in an IM conversation

Karl XXX says:
so : Let me clarify : (for legal reasons,. this conversation WILL be used in complaint to LGA) : you are not prepared to investigate the rest of the session, NOR supply me wiht hand resolutions ?
Karl XXX says:
is that correct ?
Evgeny says:
i cant answer the above Karl sorry, please email gamesdutymanager@betfair.com

So they are "sticking to their guns".

in spite of No play history, Matter NOT resolved, and only taking the last 20 hands or so. Then refusing to discuss further, in spite of me having asked for hand resolutions for the session that have "gone". Add to this the fact that their "compensation" amounts to LESS than was lost in a session that they admit was faulty, (and in NO way makes up for the time an effort i have had to put in), and i feel that this response is merely continuing to show their couldnt give a damn about the customer mentality.

I have to agree with Roar that this not only brings their integrity and ethics into doubt, but in my personal opinion questions wether they are fit and proper to HOLD a gaming licence. (perhaps also explains why they hold an offshore licence too!)

I would respectfully ask what the next step for "Rouge-ing" should be ?

I will. independently, be in touch with the Malta LGA in meantime, but this site is far more "consumer facing", and i feel it is only fair to let the gaming public know the ethics they are applying here (deleting hand history, refusing to discuss further etc_)

[RedArmy]

Dear Dukesy,

I do need to clarify a few things with regards to your reply. (as per my full reply)

Although the entire issue has taken exceptionally long to resolve from our end, as I said before I fully understand your frustration. There are a few things that need to be clarified in your post on the forums.
The only issue that can be admitted to, is prolonged and confusing correspondence with our customer care, as you were informed in the final response. We have since then taken action in that respect and tried to compensate you for your troubles in excess of what you had lost.

As for the 20 or so hands that you requested history for, since the very beginning you were asking for the history of FAULTY hands that were not paid out to you, which in the end you were supplied with.

At no point have you suggested that you had an issue with over 20 faulty hands, nor does it make sense that you would continue playing such a high number of hands on a game that is not paying you out.

We have come to a conclusion and the final amount that you needed to be awarded based on your audit trail. You have then been credited with that amount, and above all been awarded over 5 times the amount in bonus funds with our sincere apologies for the way our customer care had treated you. Unfortunately, we can never be as pro-active as we would like to and cases like this one do happen occasionally.

You are still perusing this issue, although you have been credited over and above what you should have been awarded, I really have to stand behind the decision of the management and agree that there is nothing further that we can do.

With Kindest Regards,

RedArmy

[vinylweatherman]

RedArmy has simply regurgitated what Dukesy has just posted - this is like pouring petrol onto this fire.

Dukesy is making a case that there were more faulty hands than were found in the audit, and that the casino is FLATLY REFUSING to furnish him with his play history. Why on earth give Dukesy further cause to bash the casino - what is there to hide? I would expect any casino that is considered reputable having no problems giving a player game histories on request. From the casinos point of view, this should prove that Dukesy is making a fuss over nothing, yet holding back the logs will fuel rumour that something "funky" went on, and someone is covering their asses and not wanting some error to become public knowledge.

This is not a unique case, English Harbour was mentioned, but this also happened with Mansion Video Poker. We have also had big poker scandals, one being Absolute Poker. When players first noticed something odd, the response was to deny everything, and even now there is still some hidden secrets surrounding Absolute Poker.
Without full and frank openness, any casino/pokerroom found having a "technical glitch" that affects players is going to find the reputation of their software under fire, and recovery of reputation can take some while.

Really, there should be a full audit on ALL gameplay on this faulty game to see who has lost out, and compensate them. The casino should then announce when this has been done, and notify affected players. Those players who never noticed will be pleased by this honesty, but would not be pleased if they thought they had been affected, but only find out by accident some while later (reading this perhaps), feeling that the casino knew, but was happy to keep their winnings since they didn't notice and complain.

[dukesy]

After only 1 YEAR of waiting (and progressing complaint with Malta LGA), i was amazed to get a phone call ...


hold on....they are on the phone....Update coming

[dukesy]

After only 1 YEAR of waiting (and progressing complaint with Malta LGA), i was amazed to get a phone call ...


hold on....they are on the phone....Update coming

Actually....no

trus to form, promised a call back yesterday, still hasnt arrived....

will update when i (if I) hear anything