Grand Mondial - no pay

[chayton]

Originally Posted by chuchu59

Thanks for responding Mario. Can I take it further by asking whether a player can ask you to refund his deposit if he loses playing in a disallowed currency. IMO, casinos should have the right to protect themselves and even if this is not in any way related to 'advantage play' ie bonuses, you still have a right to not permitting players from using particular currencies for play. However, that would in fact mean that all play with such currencies are void and refunds should be made to players who lose or win since the bets were not accpeted.

Well said! If the currency was disallowed, then the player shouldn't have been able to deposit or play using it. I find it interesting that the hammer didn't come down until the player tried to make a withdrawal.

[USA2112]

All casinos don't use these same standard terms, casino terms do very.

Originally Posted by chuchu59

However, that would in fact mean that all play with such currencies are void and refunds should be made to players who lose or win since the bets were not accpeted.

The question never comes up when a player loses. Only when they try to cash out. This is a big problem with casinos, you would think their software could block these types of transactions that are not allowed. We are taking about computers here.

Still find it a little strange that line 15 comes after line 14 "end of bank terms" also why would anyone who sets up a public document use the <p> tag where a <Li> tag should be, 1 to 14 <Li> tag and 15 <p> tag and centered on the page. Strange way of doing things.

[odair]

Originally Posted by USA2112

It would be a little hard to miss what line 15 says in the banking terms and it does say you must play in your currency.

Seems a little strange though that line 14 sounds to be the end of the bank terms, as you can see below, and line 15 comes after. You clearly don't have to look far for the other terms. Grasping at straws I guess.

14.) You will find more purchasing instructions throughout this site so don't hesitate to contact us if you have further questions.

15.) Players must register and play in the currency of the country in which they reside, if available, or in USD. Should players not observe this rule all winnings derived from the resulting game play will be forfeited.

Thanks!

I am 100% sure that this paragraph is new. And it is even obvious! Its a TAB ahead all the other paragraphs and its on last position (15) because they added it recently! Not when I registered! And also not 10 days ago (have a screenshot from then)

BTW: I did play in pounds because my currency (Reais) is not offered!

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by odair

Thanks!

I am 100% sure that this paragraph is new. And it is even obvious! Its a TAB ahead all the other paragraphs and its on last position (15) because they added it recently! Not when I registered! And also not 10 days ago (have a screenshot from then)

BTW: I did play in pounds because my currency (Reais) is not offered!

These terms were brought in to prevent players using the Uk Pound in particular to claim a far bigger bonus. It simply should NOT be an issue when no bonuses are involved - in such cases the player is simply playing with their own credits.
Further, whether or not the term was there is not the point. The software continues to offer customers any casino supported currency, and they MUST choose at that point before being able to complete registration. If they are offered a currency, and they are not interested in a bonus, there should be no reason for them to have to worry about what is or is not allowed.
I have never seen a valid justification for this term outside of the bonus issue. This term is NOT "standard" by any means. Usually, where present, the term dictates that players must use a certain currency in order to be ELIGIBLE FOR THE BONUS. With Globalisation, all currencies are equal, there is no reason why a player whose OWN currency is not offered should be limited in choice between the others offered. The casino then has the right to decide whether they want to allow the choice for bonuses, but it should never be used as an excuse to void winnings derived entirely from the random play at the casino. It would make no difference whether he played £3 a hand/spin or $6 - the only difference would be if he had twice the bonus because of using pounds.
The term IS there, but is buried in a boring list of deposit and withdrawal options, and most players don't need to read beyond the point that describes their own chosen method. Indeed, often it is not necessary to read about how banking works at all if you have some experience of online transactions.

It is time software providers used place of residence to limit the drop down list of available currencies, it would then be IMPOSSIBLE for the above to happen without the player resorting to trickery, such as giving false details during registration to manipulate the currency selection lists.

Such instances give online casinos a bad name, and wasn't the whole DAMN POINT of these "white label" outlets to market outside the general niche of "standard" online players. You just snared one from Brazil - and without needing one of the damn "white labels" too, and the first thing you do is alienate him with a rather technical point at term 15 of banking, even though he followed the advice of "if you want to NOT have to woory about being tripped up by odd terms, DON'T TAKE A BONUS"

An EXPERIENCED online gambler would probably think about this issue even when not using bonuses, but a newbie? probably the last thing they would expect to be tripped up on.

Here in the UK, I can use Euros in Sainsburys if I have any left over, I don't have my shopping voided at the exit because I am a UK Resident & should have shopped with pounds.

If this term is so pivotally important, it should NOT be at "15" under banking, it should be in BOLD, right at the top of EVERYTHING, including being CLEARLY VISIBLE at the top of the downloader as it installs the casino.
This goes for the lot of you (operators) not just Playshare.

If WE, the community, can think of an easy way for players to be more informed of pitfalls when registering, we should expect the operators and software companies to implement an "idiot proof" interface to the greatest extent possible, after all, casinos probably turn over more money than most other leisure activity we engage in, and much of the operation of it is not seen (and you like it that way, look what happens when some of the behind the scenes stuff comes out, such as the VP doubling win/lose being predetermined before dealing the first (dealer) card).

[USA2112]

The casino is the one that is implementing the use of term 15 In their response to the player, that is why they are refusing to pay his winnings. The player posted that he read the terms, If so, I don’t see how line 15 could have been skipped or just missed. So why did he not choose USD as it states he should have being his currency was not avalible.

The terms being referred to are in a strange order to say the least, and possibly changed. So to say that is not the point, I guess that depends on if or when the terms were changed or added, if so, was it yesterday or six months ago and if terms in line 15 were changed or added after the fact, that is the whole point. This is the terms the casino is accusing the player of not following.

I know I read all terms with every transaction I make with a casino and understand them clearly before I play, and would suggest everyone to do the same. By reading odairs first post it sounds like he did read the terms before depositing and playing. If I was to have the same thing happen to me and go back after making a deposit playing and winning and being refused a withdraw and found the terms were possibly changed I would be just as concerned and want to find out why.

All I’m trying to do is help, I always take a look at the obvious points that are presented. Which is the terms and that they were read by the player and that the reason the casino is refusing the withdraw, terms line15 and the player saying the terms did not exist when he read them.

Don’t matter if I’m wrong or right its just something to consider, this is just my opinion.

I do like the idea of casinos becoming a little more responsible and add certain features. Like drop downs that provide proper currencies at registration and as mentioned in another thread, pop ups that would inform players entering the casino of changes in the terms and conditions when changes have been made.

As far as a casinos reputation, I believe casinos build their own reputation some are good some are bad and I don’t think any player can determine the outcome of their reputation no matter what they say on any forum. Plus they always have the right to come forward and defend any and all accusations. H*ll that is why I have been coming to the casinomeister forum for the last several years, reading all the controversy that surrounds the gambling industry and just recently decided to sign up as a member.

One small note: This is the best the statement, “operators and software companies to implement an "idiot proof" interface” don’t think it is necessary. Definition: A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. This ought to keep the casinos on their toe’s especially when the phones calls come in.

[lojo]

Well, damn, USA2112, you don't leave much to discuss by the end of a post, I bet you were good with essays

I tend to think that if there is an issue here, it will be resolved. Am I mixing my posts or did OP say they had a screen shot? This would say one of two things...

Apologies if I'm in the wrong thread.

[USA2112]

Yeah, I always seem to look into things some times to much and get ahead of myself, I'm sure it will be resolved. He did mention a screen shot.

[lojo]

If we are on the same page (and i could be wrong) somebody is fexed.

[odair]

Originally Posted by lojo

If we are on the same page (and i could be wrong) somebody is fexed.

Hi,

yes I did a screenshot when I wasnt paid after 2 weeks and now that I looked at it again, and Term 15 IS there. This means does not mean it was there when I depoisted, but it means I did overread it once, so it is possible that I did overread it twice.
Of course this changes the situation a bit, but still I think it is not right not paying my winnings. It rather seems to me that I really have no chance to get my winnings.
Thanks to Grand Mondial to have let me deposit in this currency though! I guess its impossible programming to not give the player the option if its prohibited! Just dont understand what the CM-acredited list is for if I cant really trust those casinos.

[lojo]

That does put it in a slightly different light.

Just my opinion? If the casino took your wager they need to pay the result, but that's just my opinion. If I walk into the Rio and place a bet with a Golden Nugget chip, the dealer won't take the bet. If does, he damn well better pay me if i win. If i go to the cage and try to buy Rio chips (which is what your casino credits are online) with monopoly money or seashells, they won't do the transaction, if they do, they damn well better pay me if I place a chip (casino credit) and win.

Have you read this page yet? http://www.casinomeister.com/problems.php It's a self help program for now, but the tools are there. Good luck, please let us know how things progress