Mayan Fortune forfeits deposit and winnings

**erique1977** · 14th July 2007, 08:04 PM

This bad I have never seen it before:

After signing up June 14th I deposited $50, got $150 welcome bonus. The next day I cashed out $471.

A week later, they asked for documents. I sent them. So far so good. Then they wanted me to clarify why my passport is Dutch while I lived in Sweden. I told them that I was temporarily located in Sweden for my job and felt I should have registered on my current address. Their reply:

"Thank you for clearing this up for us. Your documents will be reviewed by the security department and once they are approved your cash out will be processed."

Then they called me to verify my account details yet another time. I was told everything should be ok at that time.

Today I got this email:

Dear XXX

Regarding your locked account.
Your account has been reviewed by the Fraud & Security department.
We're sorry but this account will remain inactive and your deposit and winnings have been forfeited.

Should the status change in the future you will be notified by email.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

I asked them kindly if they could give me an explanation. Their reply:

Thank you for contacting us.

I am sorry to inform you but the casino reserves the right to not disclose investigation information to any one, without disclosing the reason why.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

Have a nice day, and good luck!

Sincerely,

MayanFortune Customer Service

This is bad right? What should I try now? I mean, they cannot just seize my deposit and winnings without further explanation?

**RobRival** · 14th July 2007, 10:19 PM

Hello,

Edit - the player has contacted me and I'm looking into this.

Rob
Rival Technical Support

**winbig** · 15th July 2007, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by CocoaRob

Hello,

Edit - the player has contacted me and I'm looking into this.

Rob
Rival Technical Support

Is confiscating winnings and deposits your normal business practice? I could understand winnings, but the deposit as well??

**xengo** · 15th July 2007, 10:12 AM

This is what I got from Pantasia yesterday.

Dear ....,

Thank you for contacting us.

regarding your locked account.
Your account has been reviewed by the Fraud & Security department.
We're sorry but this account will remain inactive and your deposit and winnings have been forfeited.

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

Have a nice day, and good luck!

Sincerely,

Pantasia Customer Service

They called me on the phone last week to verify my account and they told me everything was ok now and I would be paid this week. Instead I got this email.
Really strange and no reply any more.
I asked them why as they did close my account.
And how it is possible that they can do such a thing.
Hope we can solve this problem in a nice way.

**Pinababy69** · 15th July 2007, 10:18 AM

With both players being Dutch, I wonder if that will be part of the casino's reply? I sure hope it is not going to be similar to the recent CoolCat thread, the one relating to all the players who signed up at CoolCat through that huge Dutch forum.

**vinylweatherman** · 15th July 2007, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

With both players being Dutch, I wonder if that will be part of the casino's reply? I sure hope it is not going to be similar to the recent CoolCat thread, the one relating to all the players who signed up at CoolCat through that huge Dutch forum.

Well, it is starting to look that way.
At least CoolCat refunded deposits (to some at least), and this was ALL deposits.

The player who registered from Sweden did the RIGHT THING. This has been brought up in the past that it is where you are PLAYING FROM NOW that is the address you should use, provided that you have some degree of permanence with utility bills etc.
We had the case of a player posted to Malaysia on a temporary basis, but who was a US citizen. They were told they should change their details to match their CURRENT location. The point being that where you are determines how the casino contacts you - you need to be reachable.
In the case of "forbidden" countries, again it is where you REGISTER & PLAY from that counts, not where you were born - or are casinos using whichever interpretation allows them to screw over the player that has "offended" them.
A US player who moves here to the UK, and has a permanent address, could open a Neteller account & play freely online UNTIL they returned to the US, at which point the casinos & Neteller would have to close their accounts.

A Dutch person who works here in the UK (or Sweden), would have to obey, and benefit from, UK (or Swedish) laws & rules until such time as they returned to Holland.

Lasseters demonstrate this, I can NOT PLAY THERE if I happen to be in Australia visiting my Uncles, but I can play there normally from home, and any other country that allows (or tolerates) the activity within it's borders.

Maybe anyone who was born Dutch, has Dutch DNA, once worked there, etc should NOT PLAY ONLINE, and thus avoid what is increasingly looking like a "witch hunt" by casinos against the Dutch nation. Instead, launch a campaign to teach the whole world Dutch, so we can all read "that" forum

**RobRival** · 15th July 2007, 05:22 PM

Hello everyone,

To be clear - I am simply forwarding this information to the casino manager.

In the meantime, I've been on this forum long enough to know the rules, and so do most of you.

What is the procedure for filing a complaint? First, contact a rep. I might not be a casino rep but I can forward these to the manager. Was that done by either of these players? No. I have only been in contact with the manager on the first case, but is it odd at all to you that this the first player complaint against any Rival casino, and the player(s) in question don't try to follow the procedure outlined by the Casinomeister? They simply post inflammatory threads, without going through the recommended steps?

I can appreciate you wanting to automatically side with other players, but let's try and have a little respect for one another here, please.

Rob
Rival Technical Support

**vinylweatherman** · 15th July 2007, 06:04 PM

Well,
The E-mails from the casino seem to indicate they are not prepared to discuss anything, they won't even say why the player has been treated this way, and this gives the player no chance to prove they are innocent of any "charges".
It is likely that they don't see contacting the rep as being any different (although it often is). The Pitch a Bitch service takes time, and players treated this way are enraged, and not likely to be patient.
This leaves venting in the complaints section for immediate gratification, even though this can make it harder to get the money later.

IF they are fraudsters, they will also resort to posting a complaint in the forum, knowing that any investigation by Bryan will only show them up.
Recent behaviour from a number of casinos has made it very likely that the player is being "shafted" rather than having really done something wrong.
Some casinos have even admitted that these "fraudsters" have simply played too well with a sign-up bonus, but have not actually broken any rules.

If casinos want the "respect" from players, they should stop using this high handed attitude against players who have simply played with skill, rather than like an idiot - and for those who HAVE broken one of the rules, explain why, don't hide behind "security", because much of this is Bullsh1te, and players can be told more than they are at present without affecting the operations of the fraud detection process.

Fraud IS on the increase, why?

Simple, the casino operators have widened their definition of "fraud" to include certain "playing styles". Fraud was originally about signing up with fake details, or opening several accounts with the right details, but only using the one they first win on, thinking the losing ones won't get noticed.

Fortune Lounge were a case in point, they voided winnings from around 4000 accounts, initially claiming fraud. It turned out that their definition of fraud included those players who had simply played to win with the bonus, rather than playing to last as long as possible without busting out (which itself used to be "fraud" when WR were generally lower than they are now).

Online casinos are the ONLY casinos that can so easily "mug" the player on their way off the premises, B&M casinos either have to ban the player from FURTHER play, or have enough evidence for "fraud" to have the player arrested and charged, and then it requires a court order to get the winnings back off the player. If they player is found guilty, they are punished, if innocent, their name is cleared. It is rare for a B&M casino to go this far, they normally just ban the player.

**uungy** · 15th July 2007, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

Well,
The E-mails from the casino seem to indicate they are not prepared to discuss anything, they won't even say why the player has been treated this way, and this gives the player no chance to prove they are innocent of any "charges".
It is likely that they don't see contacting the rep as being any different (although it often is). The Pitch a Bitch service takes time, and players treated this way are enraged, and not likely to be patient.
This leaves venting in the complaints section for immediate gratification, even though this can make it harder to get the money later.

IF they are fraudsters, they will also resort to posting a complaint in the forum, knowing that any investigation by Bryan will only show them up.
Recent behaviour from a number of casinos has made it very likely that the player is being "shafted" rather than having really done something wrong.
Some casinos have even admitted that these "fraudsters" have simply played too well with a sign-up bonus, but have not actually broken any rules.

If casinos want the "respect" from players, they should stop using this high handed attitude against players who have simply played with skill, rather than like an idiot - and for those who HAVE broken one of the rules, explain why, don't hide behind "security", because much of this is Bullsh1te, and players can be told more than they are at present without affecting the operations of the fraud detection process.

Fraud IS on the increase, why?

Simple, the casino operators have widened their definition of "fraud" to include certain "playing styles". Fraud was originally about signing up with fake details, or opening several accounts with the right details, but only using the one they first win on, thinking the losing ones won't get noticed.

Fortune Lounge were a case in point, they voided winnings from around 4000 accounts, initially claiming fraud. It turned out that their definition of fraud included those players who had simply played to win with the bonus, rather than playing to last as long as possible without busting out (which itself used to be "fraud" when WR were generally lower than they are now).

Online casinos are the ONLY casinos that can so easily "mug" the player on their way off the premises, B&M casinos either have to ban the player from FURTHER play, or have enough evidence for "fraud" to have the player arrested and charged, and then it requires a court order to get the winnings back off the player. If they player is found guilty, they are punished, if innocent, their name is cleared. It is rare for a B&M casino to go this far, they normally just ban the player.

Brilliant post.

You have managed to put about 5 different threads into one!

Its about time casinos use proper terms and condtions, and react fairly to players. I am not saying if thats the case here, however as a player, casino's seem to put very ambiguous terms on their site so that they canclaim the player is acting "fraudly", which in fact in my view is a fraudlent behaviour of a casino.

The only casino that I know that is clear and fair is Crypto. Should you choose to play a bonus, they give you the code, which outlines CLEARLY the games allowed, and requirements. As far as I am concerened, the graphics of MG are pretty good, but they cant seem to invest in a real bonus viewer (as clear as crypto), they have a basic one, which many casinos sometimes say youhave to clear wagering and you cant forfeit the bonus (in the hidden terms) etc., which is once again where it gets confusing, only so that players can get whipped with!

If a casino has a problem, and suspecting fraud, whats wrong with telling the player "we have checked your IP etc." Why do they constantly hide under their "managing and financing departments" and claim that its "not our decision"?

I have had problems in the past, and if the casinos were to explain things, alote wouldnt happen, and thats why as soon as a casino answers like that, it looks as though you have something to hide.

I have posted in the past and had people claiming I am a fraudlent player, I respectably answered them and had nothing to hide, why cant the casinos do the same, and give some answers? if I am asked for any identification, I have to give it, but that doesnt work the other way.

**xengo** · 15th July 2007, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by CocoaRob

Hello everyone,

To be clear - I am simply forwarding this information to the casino manager.

In the meantime, I've been on this forum long enough to know the rules, and so do most of you.

What is the procedure for filing a complaint? First, contact a rep. I might not be a casino rep but I can forward these to the manager. Was that done by either of these players? No. I have only been in contact with the manager on the first case, but is it odd at all to you that this the first player complaint against any Rival casino, and the player(s) in question don't try to follow the procedure outlined by the Casinomeister? They simply post inflammatory threads, without going through the recommended steps?

I can appreciate you wanting to automatically side with other players, but let's try and have a little respect for one another here, please.

Rob
Rival Technical Support

Let me apologize for taking the wrong steps in to resolving my problems with this casino.
I guess I was too surprised what happened here.
Off course I want to resolve this in a nice manner and with respect.