Mayan Fortune forfeits deposit and winnings

[RobRival]

Hi everyone,

To answer your question - why do the casinos not tell the players exactly what set off the flags? Well this would simply assist any players attempting to defraud the casino in the future. "Well, such and such was OK but when we checked THIS, here is exactly where you made your mistake, so watch for that next time you try and get the casino." I think any honest player could see that that doesn't help the casinos in running a tight ship.

As for the Rival bonus system, it's quite clear. And as everyone knows, up until now there hasn't been a single complaint about Rival and its bonus system. Why? Because it's fair - it stops a player from receiving a bonus if (such and such) are detected. Does this prevent fraud? Unfortunately, no.

What is the scenario here? I don't know the specifics but I would appreciate if the procedure outlined by the Casinomeister is followed, as his steps are probably the best way to ensure a satisfactory outcome for the player. Players who bypass this and are here to simply bash a casino, well, what is the point of that you have to ask yourself.

Cheers,

Rob
Rival Technical Support

[silkprint]

Some people post these here to let other players know what I going on before having to PAB .
That's why this section is here in the first place .

[erique1977]

CocoaRob asked me to remove my post while this was being investigated. He also noted the procedure here on CM, which I did not know and I admit I should have prepared better.

I was planning to remove my post, but Rob replied again within the hour (which I appreciate, good service!) with quite bad news from the manager indicating that the Casino would never disclose why they think fraud was involved. This means that I will never be able to defend myself, it would just be my word against the casino's.

I honestly only have a single account at Mayan Fortune, played there for the first time, and did all according to T&C's. I am afraid I was not the only Dutch guy signing up in that period of time, and maybe the casino thinks I used fake names, addresses, etc. Again, I can only guess as they are not disclosing anything.

By the way, I agree with CocoaRob that Rivals bonus system is excellent, I liked the casino, software, cashier, etc...it was all very clear. I read good things about the group too, and it was therefore very surprising to see this happening....

[Pinababy69]

Just FTR Rob, I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't taking a side, nor forming an opinion, one way or the other. Simply mentioning the fact that both players were Dutch, and for whatever reason, this has been a problem in the past with a less than reputable casino. That was not meant to imply that your casino falls into that category at all.

I don't remember seeing a complaint posted re: any Rival casinos (besides some "new software" glitches), on this forum previously, so you must be doing something right. I am very glad that you take a pro-active role in the forum, I wish more casinos would follow your lead. And yes, you are right about the CM protocol thing. I'm usually one of the first members preaching to people here about following the rules, which is often mistaken as taking the casino's side.

All that being said, if a new poster does come and post their complaint...provided it is done in a respectful manner, and kept factual and free of anything nasty (and is legit and not someone just venting), then I also think they are entitled to do that. As Silk said, it keeps people informed. I'm not overly impressed that you asked one of the posters to remove their post. But again, you've always been very pro-active here and deserve some latitude as well. But generally, once something is posted, it should stay where it is.

Let's just see how this plays out, without anyone jumping the gun on anything.

Sorry for any misunderstanding Rob (on my part), many of us do appreciate your input here at the forum.

[uungy]

Originally Posted by CocoaRob

Hi everyone,

To answer your question - why do the casinos not tell the players exactly what set off the flags? Well this would simply assist any players attempting to defraud the casino in the future. "Well, such and such was OK but when we checked THIS, here is exactly where you made your mistake, so watch for that next time you try and get the casino." I think any honest player could see that that doesn't help the casinos in running a tight ship.

As for the Rival bonus system, it's quite clear. And as everyone knows, up until now there hasn't been a single complaint about Rival and its bonus system. Why? Because it's fair - it stops a player from receiving a bonus if (such and such) are detected. Does this prevent fraud? Unfortunately, no.

What is the scenario here? I don't know the specifics but I would appreciate if the procedure outlined by the Casinomeister is followed, as his steps are probably the best way to ensure a satisfactory outcome for the player. Players who bypass this and are here to simply bash a casino, well, what is the point of that you have to ask yourself.

Cheers,

Rob
Rival Technical Support

Fair point, but instead of just closing the case, the company, if for whatever has thought that a customer has made up a bogus name, they can easily request ID, and judge accordingly, and instead of saying "the case is closed" why not request some information which could verify and explain the situation

I agree the bonus system in Rival are quite straightforward, my point was that the feeling here is that, similar to some companies (and MG was my example), casinos just aren't interested in explaining to the layman, and make it easy for all to ubderstand

[vinylweatherman]

This is the big problem, if they say too much they help future fraudsters, but if they say too little it makes it impossible for the innocent player to understand what has gone wrong, and how to put it right.

The problem is also that the casino then close the case, claiming their is nothing to "put right", and that the accusation, guilt, and summary execution stands without leave to appeal.
This leaves to player having go outside the "official" appeal procedures, and then choosing one they feel might work the best.
Going to Bryan with a pitched bitch is likely to be the most effective, but is quite slow, as well as thorough. Bryan will also be privvy to much of this "secret" information used to initially determine the case.
Appealing to the forum may be satisfying, but not so effective unless the casino is shown to have a bad policy.
Eventually, members will want to hear the WHOLE story, not just the edited highlights. From this, they may be able to determine what might have gone wrong, and make suggestions, or maybe support the casino in the view that the story just does not add up.
In particular, the first player may have raised flags due to their current work and residence situation, not because of fraud. If the security team don't believe his explanation (Dutch passport was mentioned), they will brand him a fraud and that is that, no appeal etc.
If it is only an issue with a Dutch passport, then this is more likely an innocent player, as merely working in Sweden does not entitle one to a Swedish passport, this would entail claiming, and being accepted for, Swedish citizenship, and renouncing the Dutch passoport. Not something a temporary worker is going to do. There HAS to be more to this than the passport. The best way to get to the bottom of this is to Pitch a Bitch, slow it may be, but it will still be quicker than trying to figure out the problem without knowing some of the "secret" information.

Regulation of the industry will provide a third, and pretty effective, method of pursuing these issues. Taking the casino to civil court for the money. This would have to be based on damages & return of deposit. Current law does not allow for the pursuit of disputed winnings. It works both ways mind, a casino cannot sue for the return of winnings either, only for damages.
The new UK gaming regulations were to scrap this law, allowing claims against disputed wagers to be decided in the courts.

[erique1977]

Well, I'll start with a PAB.

My biggest concern is that the casino accuses me of fraud without further explanation, and I will never be able to prove that I only opened a single account at the casino. I sent documents with proof of ID and address, played from and with a single IP / computer / location. No flag-raising situations at all...

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by erique1977

Well, I'll start with a PAB.

My biggest concern is that the casino accuses me of fraud without further explanation, and I will never be able to prove that I only opened a single account at the casino. I sent documents with proof of ID and address, played from and with a single IP / computer / location. No flag-raising situations at all...

Something DID raise a flag, but it may not be your fault, it could be something someone else has done previously from your current temporary place of residence, and will be something you can never be expected to know about. It seems likely that the flag indicates you to be trying to open more than one account in order to get another bonus. It would be a question of what happened before you moved in. These problems often afflict players who register from the workplace, or a university, and is down to other users of the same internet connection.
It could be very difficult to prove your case, as you are guilty until you can prove your innocence, with the added burden of not being allowed to see the evidence against you. The ONLY solution is to enlist the help of an independent arbitration service, and this is why PAB, although likely to take a while, should give you the best possible outcome. If you HAVE tried something dodgy, this too will come out, so PAB is not without risk. Innocent players should ALWAYS PAB, as failure to do so after making a forum fuss tends to lend the impression that you had "tried something", and just want to move on to the next victim. If you PAB, players here will believe you are sincere, and could even support you if the PAB goes against you provided you put up a good case. The system is NOT PERFECT, there ARE cases where honest players get tarred with the fraud accusation, and some NEVER get justice, and may remain bitter and go on to say "to hell with it, might as well do the crime now I have served the time". This is one way high-handed action by casinos can create fraud attempts through bitterness.
This attitude prevails within UK "Fruit Machine" culture, as the operators shaft us when we play (70% payouts), and again if we dare to win (throw us off the premises even though we have done nothing wrong - depriving us of a wholesome hobby).

[RobRival]

Hello everyone,

Here is the latest from the casino manager

"The casino has decided to pay the accounts in question, despite what we believe to be sufficient evidence that the player opened accounts not under his own name. Additional changes to the casinos' policies will be made to ensure that this will not be permitted to occur again."

You'll probably have questions as to why the casino thinks this, and no doubt the player(s) in question will protest their innocence, but the casinos are not going to reveal how they reached their conclusions. Suffice to say, the information relevant to why the accounts were locked was not posted here.

To those involved - your accounts will be unlocked within 48 hours, at which point you can withdraw your balances.


Rob
Rival

[me_and_ed]

They locked my accounts and did not give me any reasons, probably because of my posts here, anyway I thank them.