Mathematical proof that.......ummmmm

**pangloss** · 15th May 2007, 01:27 PM

Now i am trying to figure (see attached screenshot below) if I got real lucky or really unlucky. Wizard of Odds says of Pai Gow, "The probability that the front hands will copy is 2.55%. The probability that the back hands will copy is 0.10%.". Hmmmm......a one in forty event - repeated 10 times straight.

So our friend WOO must have it all wrong because we all know that online gaming software is completely random, don't we?

...

**Casinomeister** · 15th May 2007, 02:07 PM

Just a heads up that this group in the "Cautions" section. But if their software is indeed messed up. Then this needs to be modified:
http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/c...oldbetting.php

I'll notify the operators to see what's up.

**fraserwpsr540** · 15th May 2007, 02:30 PM

There must be a problem there. If this is not a case of software problems, the odds of it happening are somewhere in the region of one in ten quadrillion......

**phynqster** · 15th May 2007, 07:22 PM

If this is true, than yes there is something fraudulently wrong here. How come this thread is not getting more action. This should be NUMBER 1 topic of discussion on the forum if a casino software is found to be cheating.

**spearmaster** · 15th May 2007, 07:39 PM

All I can say is:

No way!

That doesn't just defy probability - that is not random in the slightest. If (disregarding the dealer's hands) I had that kind of a run with player hands, I'd be in heaven...

**aka23** · 15th May 2007, 08:44 PM

I believe that Wager21 does indeed have a non-random Pai Gow game. I started a thread about this ~1 year ago at http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ers-vegas.html . Since then other players have mentioned similar experiences to me. One player sent me similar screenshots.

Note that Wager21 is the same SW that states "Our Free Games are programmed for FUN and give higher payouts (than real mode)." in their FAQ. When playing in fun mode, the difference is quite obvious, even in table games like BJ.

**NextToYou** · 15th May 2007, 11:34 PM

If Pai Gow is not random, then I wouldn�t believe that any other game is random either.

**pangloss** · 16th May 2007, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by phynqster

If this is true, than yes there is something fraudulently wrong here. How come this thread is not getting more action. This should be NUMBER 1 topic of discussion on the forum if a casino software is found to be cheating.

Here's my theory for what it's worth.

I lost something like $350 over $3,500 worth of Pai Gow wagers at $5 per hand suffering in the order of -EV 10% when perhaps -EV 3% was to be expected (I don't think my win/loss ratio was anything spectacularly unusual). In the end I won $25 over and above my deposit and got paid reasonably promptly without any hassle.

So it is not so much the win/loss of each hand that is so offensive BUT the manner of how the SW brings that win/loss sequence to life in the presentation of dealt cards. The SW is so inadequate it completely lacks imagination in picking cards to facilitate each pre-determined win/loss.

Players are not moaning and groaning writ large because the Casinos using Wager21 are offering large cashable bonus offerings with relatively small WRs thereby offsetting the effects of corrupted SW.

Bottom line is this. Given the choice of a bonus at a Fortune Lounge casino or one from the Wager21 stable which is more amenable to cashable profit?

...

**vinylweatherman** · 17th May 2007, 12:38 PM

Large bonuses do not excuse cheating. It damages the entire industry when such blatant cheating as shown in this screenshot. We even have the likes of Spearmaster denouncing that sequence on sight.
If this is "real mode", this means that none of the games are fair, as they already admit fun mode is programmed to pay more.
The suspicion is that real mode is programmed to control how much the player is allowed to win, and it could just as well be programmed to suck back a big win while the player gets offered tempting bonuses sucking them further and further into a hole.

If this is proven, "caution" is probably not good enough, and they should join "start your own casino" software as thoroughly rogue.

**happygobrokey** · 18th May 2007, 05:45 PM

so what? casinos have always had the power to cheat. they serve the games. but now players can cheat back. go read the link in the nl bots thread here in poker section. ftr, i hate cheaters but when in rome you gotta fight dirty i guess.