SpinPalace, misc problems

[BDiddy]

Anyone have issues with depositing funds using eCheck at SpinPalace? I'm beyond frustrated with them at this point. Spoke with Instadebit last night and their security team is on this matter as well, they are very concerned. The following is from a live chat I had with SpinPalace last night to give everyone an idea of what's going on...

The following is a record of your online chat.
General Info
Chat start time Mar 18, 2011 9:48:54 PM EST
Chat end time Mar 18, 2011 10:44:26 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:55:31
Operator Sam



Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Sam'
Sam: Hi there ***** *******
Sam: My name is Sam
Sam: How may I assist you today?
Me: I've been having trouble depositing with Echeck, and they said it might be an incorrect phone number enrty. How do I change my banking details?
Sam: You may want to contact eCheck to assist you with that
Me: Echeck says it isnt having a problem with my account, there is no error on their end. I want to change my personal information with your site. How do I do that?
Sam: May I ask which information you would like to change
Me: my phone number may be entered incorrectly (hyphenated or something). Why cant I change my information?
Sam: on your casino account it is correct, there are no Hyphens in the number which you have entered
Sam: I have picked up something though
Sam: The status on your eCheck account shows that your details have not been verified
Sam: by eCheck
Me: ok so why am i able to deposit with Echeck with NO problem for the last four years and it doesnt work on this site? Ive been getting the runaround for a day and a half now and am getting fed up
Sam: One moment pleas
Me: Ive deposited on Pokerstars.com for four years and its been no issues....i try and deposit for the first time here and its impossible
Sam: I will be with you soon
Sam: Thank you for waiting
Sam: Kindly be advised that we have escalated this matter to eCheck
Me: so what happens now??
Sam: We need to inquire whether your information has been verified so that you are able to deposit at our casino
Me: how come this is the first ive heard of this??? i was told last night that it was a tech issue, today its because Echeck is to blame, and now apparently i need to be verified by a merchant I've done business with for the last four years??? Ridiculous.
Sam: Different casinos uses different verification methods
Me: How am I supposed to trust your site at this point after being told three different stories??? I can only imagine how impossible it is to withdraw any funds should i actually win......
Sam: I am sorry for the information which you have been provided with
Sam: Would you please be kind enough to allow me some time
Sam: to resolve this matter for you
Me: So what is the reason for not verifying my info last night or today for that matter???? Explain why your verification method doesnt happen the instant there is a problem
Sam: There is no trouble at all, please do not be too concerned
Sam: This matter will be attended to soon
Me: your casino gets a high rating on google and this is the length i have to go to in order to just deposit and play??? I guess I should be concerned. You still haven't answered my question as to why this wasnt looked at for over a day....
Sam: The notes on your casino account indicates that you should contact eCheck
Me: Unbelievable. So back to this again....it's their fault.
Sam: I am offering to contact them on your behalf
Sam: and Inquire why they have not verified your information to make deposits at our casino
Me: I've entered the identical information I use for Echeck on Pokerstars.com but it doesnt work here....but its my problem somehow right? You're right you should find out why considering you offer them as a deposit merchant. It's called customer service...you should try it for once.
Sam: One moment please
Sam: Thank you for waiting
Sam: I will only be able to have an answer for you in 24 hours
Me: 24 hours??? Why is that? I've been getting the runaround for a day and a half and now you need 24 more hours????
Me: Explain why
Me: What is the problem?????
Sam: Nothing at all
Me: Are you going to answer my questions or not?
Sam: I need 24 hours as this is Customer Services
Me: Explain why you need 24 hours to verify my account, something that can be done with a simple phone call. Do you want my business or not?
Sam: I need to send your details to our operations team where they will need to liaise with eCheck and find out what the possible block on your account could be
Me: It's taken you people a day and half to come to that conclusion? I'm not impressed with being lied to and treated like an idiot concerning this matter
Me: You just said that you were going to contact echeck and find out why and now you need to "liase" with your operations people to figure it out? What a joke...expect a horrible review from me concerning this entire matter...this is the worst experience I've ever had with any gaming site hands down. You people haven't given me a straight answer yet....
Sam: I will be able to once I have an answer from eCheck
Me: I will be saving this entire correspondence to be placed on any website currently reviewing online casino operation and customer service....this is unacceptable treatment of a potential customer.
Sam: Please accept my apologies once again
Me: This issue should have been resolved the instant I contacted you with my concerns. However, you chose to pass the buck and not give a **** about the matter for a day and a half. Nice job.
Me: I'm going to contact Echeck and tell them what is happening here...since your site has done nothing but cause me frustration for the simple pleasure of being a customer on your site.
Me: So I guess you will send me an email telling me what the deal is? When can I expect a resolution to this matter?
Sam: You should receive an answer within 24 hours
Me: Well in the meantime this conversation will be posted everywhere relevant to online casino review. I await your response.
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to ***********@yahoo.com at the end of your chat.
Sam: Do you have any more questions or queries?
Me: No. Good day.
Sam: Thank you for visiting. Please contact us at anytime. We are here to help. Good-bye.

My frustration at this point is pretty high but I think I held it together pretty well considering how many emails and phone calls it took to get here. SpinPalace has a high rating on this website but I'm very skeptical at this point. They tried to push me into a credit card deposit immediately upon my first eCheck "decline", which I've heard of casinos doing to players. If I did win anything in the future and tried to withdraw, the funds are then held in limbo forever pending "verification". Any advice is appreciated....

[lauram]

I know this can be frustrating. but it has happened to me a few times also. It is called a ping time out. Happens at times if we have not let the casino fully download before making a deposit. Or if they have a burp on the internet. I stopped contacting support about this, as i found in a few days the funds would always show up in my account.
The sad part is some folks have a lower limit to play with and this might of been their only deposit.

[jod5413]

When things do not go the way we want them to, it is frustrating. However, your chat is a bit too much. You were rude to a customer rep that was trying their best to take care of it for you. He/she remained calm all through your diatribe without getting upset and should be commended for it.

The internet for gambling can be frustrating as Hell, especially when things do not go smoothly. But it happens.

If you expect perfection and never any problems stick to B&M casinos. That might be better for you, I think.

[BDiddy]

Time to take a look at the Spin Palace welcome bonus terms. The point of interest here is the very last clause, right at the bottom of the page. Any particular reason for this clause to be as far as possible from the top of the page?



13. Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes.

Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met.

Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings.



Again, we have a bet size limitation of 30%, which is all well and good. But again, we have "irregular" play which the casino cannot fully describe, and which may result in confiscation of all funds.

Why can this casino also not define the rules properly?

What is "equal betting"? Does it relate to "hedge betting"? Neither of these are standard casino gambling terms, and therefore they need defining. But they are not defined, it is left to the player to guess.

And what is a "low margin" bet? How low is low? What is a "margin", anyway? Very few gamblers will have heard of this term. Why doesn't the casino define it?


This casino group is well-regarded in the industry. But when you chip away at the surface you find the same vague, undefined, inadequate and player-unfriendly language passed off as "rules" that you will find in the worst casinos on the internet.


And so on and so on. You can find the same rambling, undefined nonsense on just about any Microgaming site other than 32Red and Ladbrokes. And these operations are all heavily marketed by the affiliate industry: self-professed player "watchdog" Bryan Bailey lists all these casinos, and many more, on his accredited casinos list, replete with accolades of "best casino".

No, Bryan. "Worst casinos". Get it right.

[BDiddy]

Time to take a look at the Spin Palace welcome bonus terms. The point of interest here is the very last clause, right at the bottom of the page. Any particular reason for this clause to be as far as possible from the top of the page?



13. Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes.

Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met.

Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings.



Again, we have a bet size limitation of 30%, which is all well and good. But again, we have "irregular" play which the casino cannot fully describe, and which may result in confiscation of all funds.

Why can this casino also not define the rules properly?

What is "equal betting"? Does it relate to "hedge betting"? Neither of these are standard casino gambling terms, and therefore they need defining. But they are not defined, it is left to the player to guess.

And what is a "low margin" bet? How low is low? What is a "margin", anyway? Very few gamblers will have heard of this term. Why doesn't the casino define it?


This casino group is well-regarded in the industry. But when you chip away at the surface you find the same vague, undefined, inadequate and player-unfriendly language passed off as "rules" that you will find in the worst casinos on the internet.


I then took a look at the Allslots bonus terms - Allslots is part of the Jackpot Factory group, another well-regarded operation. To my surprise, I couldn't find any vague or unsubstantiatable language that threatened general hell, fire and brimstone, so I looked a bit further down the general terms page.

Sure enough:



10.3 In the event that we believe a user is abusing or attempting to abuse a bonus or other promotion, or is likely to benefit through abuse or lack of good faith from a gaming policy adopted by us, then we may, at our sole discretion, deny, withhold or withdraw from any user any bonus or promotion, or rescind any policy with respect to that user, either temporarily or permanently, or terminate that user's access to the Casino and/or block that user's account.



I can barely be bothered to start taking this one apart. I think they should remove all that and substitute something like "we'll confiscate your money if we don't like you". It would hardly make a difference.

But I do like the reference to the player's potential "lack of good faith". Players gamble in order to win money from the casino in question. What kind of "good faith" is that?


And so on and so on. You can find the same rambling, undefined nonsense on just about any Microgaming site other than 32Red and Ladbrokes. And these operations are all heavily marketed by the affiliate industry: self-professed player "watchdog" Bryan Bailey lists all these casinos, and many more, on his accredited casinos list, replete with accolades of "best casino".

No, Bryan. "Worst casinos". Get it right.

[H1_Roller]

That does seem a bit far-fetched on their part. No wonder I, more often that not, opt out of any bonuses as soon as I join a new casino.

These promotions and bonuses are just a casino's way of taking ownership of our money before we even get a chance to wager it. I prefer to deposit and withdraw MY money as and when I please.

[3mptyseat]

No reasonable gambler would argue with that... But are you aware of the casinos you mentioned above exercising these terms? I have not seen any evidence of such enforcement recently...

My only point here is that good casinos get screwed by bad ppl... And so smart casinos hire lawyers to protect themselves from the casino pirates... And lawyer like to leave loopholes for the good casinos to have ways to protect themselves in case someone screws them in some previously unforeseen way... I imagine that is exactly the design of these terms...

[Nifty29]

BDiddy

I've got an idea.

How about you go and post a FOURTH thread about Spin Palace. Im not sure everyone saw the first three.

Its incredibly RUDE to post the same thing multiple times, and even more disrespectful given that you just joined. I don't care if you're a newb - anyone with half a brain knows it is impolite. What makes YOUR opinion so much more important than everyone else's that you feel you have the right to shove it in everyone's faces?

[3mptyseat]

I didnt realize he did that. tisk tisk newbie... If you lost a lot there, that sucks, but I still wanna know... Did u fall victim to these terms, or do have sandpaper where the sun dont shine bc u lost too much>?

[chuchu59]

BDiddy

I've got an idea.

How about you go and post a FOURTH thread about Spin Palace. Im not sure everyone saw the first three.

Its incredibly RUDE to post the same thing multiple times, and even more disrespectful given that you just joined. I don't care if you're a newb - anyone with half a brain knows it is impolite. What makes YOUR opinion so much more important than everyone else's that you feel you have the right to shove it in everyone's faces?

yeah its rude all right. obviously the op has a grudge against spin palace with initiating 3 threads on the same casino within such a short space of time.