More problems with GNUf- taken back a 10k win

[steffigraff77]

Thats interesting Juho...why did they allow your win after the June 4th date but not mine?

When were the terms actually changed? The more i think about it i am sure i scanned the Terms and noticed no date change which must mean no update on terms. Thats reasonable surely?

[Jufo]

Thats interesting Juho...why did they allow your win after the June 4th date but not mine?

Because the term restricting All Aces wasn't there yet!

When were the terms actually changed?

Not sure but certainly sometime after 16th August. Perhaps you find the exact date from web archives.

Anyway I have a feeling that even if the time stamp is wrong at the T&C, it may not give you a strong enough case to get fully paid, but you could look for a partial settlement given that the casino made a mistake with their T&C as well.

[steffigraff77]

deleted.

[rockycatt]

not shure but this might help, help every one
http://www.searchengineshowdown.com/.../archive.shtml

[Jufo]

It would be very funny if it was last night!!!! Just kidding i am sure it wasn't!

Nope sorry. My friend told me about the rule change about 3 weeks ago.

[vinylweatherman]

Thats interesting Juho...why did they allow your win after the June 4th date but not mine?

When were the terms actually changed? The more i think about it i am sure i scanned the Terms and noticed no date change which must mean no update on terms. Thats reasonable surely?

I joined in the summer, and I am pretty sure these are the same terms, including the VP one.

Their terms ARE in a bit of a mess though, since that section starts with "all games count".

Then you get the weightings.

Lastly you get the fact that zero weighted games are actually EXCLUDED.

This is NOT a high standard, and really such errors should NOT be present in a legal contract - it is unprofessional.

It looks like they added the zero weighted games, and the exclusions, but did NOT bother to update the introductory point 13, which STILL reflects the ORIGINAL Clearplay "cut & paste" text that came with this feature, where "all games count".

Oddly enough, they ALLOW 3 Card Poker, which is now EXCLUDED in a number of MGS casinos even though it is simply "table poker". They also allow ROULETTE

Further down is perhaps a reason WHY they allow Roulette and 3 card poker - the infamous "max bet no more than 30% of initial bonus" rule.

There is also a strikingly CLEAR (compared to others) set of definitions as to what constitutes "a single bet" for the purpose of the 30% rule.
For the FIRST time, I have seen a concise treatment of the "double" gamble option available after a win, and this is that the "double" is seen as a separate bet in it's own right - thus no WIN greater than 30% of the starting bonus balance may be "doubled".
Bet is also defined as a single "go" of a game, rather than "per position" on multi hand versions of games.

[maxd]

... Do they have a duty to update the date of changes? Otherwise it is a little misleading.

Generally speaking I'd say no, it's not a "duty", it's more or less a courtesy thing. One of the realities of web life is that the date someone puts on something and the actual date it appears can easily have nothing to do with one another. It's nice when they do coincide, but they often don't.

That may sound harsh but think of it this way: it really doesn't matter what date appears on the T&Cs, what really matters is what T&Cs were posted on the date of your winnings.

In other words if you can show that your game was not excluded on the date of your winnings then your winnings may well be valid, regardless if the Terms later displayed a date one month, one year or one century before your actual date of play. Retroactive Terms are always a problem and we generally don't accept them as valid.

Unfortunately the burden of proof is on you: show evidence of your claim and a PAB becomes a real possibility. But without some actual evidence it's your word against them and who's to say which is correct?

[steffigraff77]

Many thanks for a clear and intelligent post. More food for thought.

[vinylweatherman]

Many thanks for a clear and intelligent post. More food for thought.

There is something called the "wayback machine", which holds snapshots of the internet on given dates. This has been used in the past to settle arguments about when terms were changed.

Although dates cannot be relied upon, if one IS given, it should be CORRECT, otherwise players may regularly check this DATE.

Unless changes are highlighted in some way, how on earth can players check for changes of maybe a couple of words in a 10 page document written in "legalese".

Well, actually you CAN, but it involves software, a file comparison tool where you compare two files to see if they differ, and where.

Cut & paste one set of terms to Notepad, and when you come to check, paste the latest set into another Notepad document. Run the tool to check for changes.
Whilst many changes will be a result of small errors in the cut & paste, you will only see the CHANGES in the output, rather than having to scrutinise every word. If these changes look like actual changes in the terms, then read them again as a whole, then make the latest version the default to check against in the future.

You should not have to do this, but if you keep getting tripped up by "sneaky" changes, or like games that are prone to feature in such changes (in other words, any game that isn't a slot), this could be a worthwhile check.

Also remember, that in MOST cases the check for breaches happens when you WITHDRAW, rather than during play. Thus you can go on playing after a breach, and not be found out, and not even being CHECKED if you lose it all back rather than withdraw.

If in any doubt about this, and what to do, ask for advice BEFORE you submit that withdrawal

[heador112]

MG needs to be updatet to make it impossible to play a restrictet game with a Bonus . I have noticed that with the Partygaming Software if you have a slot bonus the system dont allow to play a table game .


If this would became a industry standard the casinos couLdnt create these unfair situation where the player can only lose .