Tradition Casino

[gloria460]

You know I've never seen an owner of a casino come in here and try to be helpful and explain everything as Tradition has done. No matter what she says she's getting hit by most of you and getting it on the back end from rival. You guys wanted transparency and she's trying to give you that and adjust your account manually.

MCG gives crap ass bonuses and RTG isn't much better and we all know that. So why all the hostility to someone who is trying to build her player base and at the same time to not go broke? You guys already knew Rival shared information on players so why act like it's a big surprise. Sloto even has access to this as I suspect most online casinos do but it's not widely publicized.

It's no wonder most of the reps on here have stopped posting bc it really doesn't matter what they.

[Pinababy69]

You know I've never seen an owner of a casino come in here and try to be helpful and explain everything as Tradition has done. No matter what she says she's getting hit by most of you and getting it on the back end from rival. You guys wanted transparency and she's trying to give you that and adjust your account manually.

MCG gives crap ass bonuses and RTG isn't much better and we all know that. So why all the hostility to someone who is trying to build her player base and at the same time to not go broke? You guys already knew Rival shared information on players so why act like it's a big surprise. Sloto even has access to this as I suspect most online casinos do but it's not widely publicized.

It's no wonder most of the reps on here have stopped posting bc it really doesn't matter what they.

I gotta agree with that to a point Gloria. If anything, I'd say the Tradition rep is being TOO honest, lol. I loathe Rival in general, and wouldn't play there if they were the last casinos on earth. But....I don't think the problem with this specific casino is the rep...it's Rival itself, and their bizarre way of doing business. And the fact that they're not independently owned and operated, but merely white label operations (for the most part).

This is exactly the type of thing that I expected would happen back when Playshare went down the white label road a couple years back. It hasn't happened with them....but this thread (and all the other Rival ones) certainly highlight how a badly run white label business can go pear shaped. I sense that the player's dissatisfaction is with Rival in general....but because Tradition Casino is here posting...she is taking the brunt of it.

[chuchu59]

I doubt many of the posters are trying to be hostile to Tradition and actually it is an understandable backlash from disgruntled players who suddenly feel guilty that bonuses are being removed from their accounts.

However, let's focus on something else. A solid player base needs time to build and I would say only about 20-30% of new players will actually stay the distance to become loyal players. The en masse removal of bonuses from so many players' accounts is likely imo to destroy this foundation. Furthermore, this act may spread like wildfire and deter potential players from signing up. So let's do a simple survey Tradition. One month after the bonus removal take stock of how many of these players actually came back and deposited (without bonuses of course) and how many new players signed up. Compare this with the previous 2 months and determine whether the casino is better or worse off, both in terms of profitability and a solid player base.

One other thing you can try is to email all the bonus-banned with a single promo and state that you treasure their patronage. This will take some heat off you and bring back some player loyalty. I understand your frustration especially when it's your business and from what I have read, you may have lost money every month since the casino's inception but it will only be normal that a casino loses money on the sign-up bonuses. In time, the loyal players will patronise the casino with mixtures of bonus-free deposits and bonus-laden deposits. Find the right mix eg % match for bonuses and WRs. Vegas Regal, for example, has promo WRs that are near impossible to meet yet they are doing pretty well. In fact, sometimnes the cashier has more than a dozen promos. Sometimes I take one or two of these in the full understanding that I wont be able to cashout. But who cares when it is a 400%-500% bonus giving you hours of entertainment for only $25.

Finally, I just want to say that most of us here are not trying to take advantage of the situation and extract bonuses from you. We are simply echoing our sentiments. You made a great start and then did the right thing in having 48 hour cashouts. We dont want a good outfit go down the drain and hence we are voicing our opinions. One more thing I want to get off my chest. Casino reps who post in here are expected to be able to answer some tough questions. As long as the those who field questions are being civil I hope that reps will not take it the wrong way and shy away from answering. Time and again, I read something along the lines that reps refrain from posting because many posters are being too hostile. They want feedback and many of us are being honest about it. How else could we put our message accross. Thanks for taking time to read the lengthy post guys.

[gloria460]

I gotta agree with that to a point Gloria. If anything, I'd say the Tradition rep is being TOO honest, lol. I loathe Rival in general, and wouldn't play there if they were the last casinos on earth. But....I don't think the problem with this specific casino is the rep...it's Rival itself, and their bizarre way of doing business. And the fact that they're not independently owned and operated, but merely white label operations (for the most part).

This is exactly the type of thing that I expected would happen back when Playshare went down the white label road a couple years back. It hasn't happened with them....but this thread (and all the other Rival ones) certainly highlight how a badly run white label business can go pear shaped. I sense that the player's dissatisfaction is with Rival in general....but because Tradition Casino is here posting...she is taking the brunt of it.

Pina now I see why you said in another thread you wouldn't play in rival if it was the last casino. I assume that all of them are owned by a person or group that gives out franchises and the owner has some leeway but has to mainly stick to the rival platform.

They share information about you to all the casinos that you have rival accounts with. I knew to a certain degree that they shared but didn't think that they were all owned by the same people. I think I better go back to Sloto..at least hopefully they're independent. I wonder how Sloto got around this?

Thanks for a better understanding of what a white label is and how it works.

[oldtrvlagt]

We all vent from time to time...that helps to keep us sane. When we feel we are being ignored, and in our mind, have done nothing wrong, but no one listens we tend to go public to see if there is anyone else out there that has experienced the same lack of response. There are a few reps on here that understand this and answer with civility, they don't tell us to go somewhere else, they don't chastise us for being vocal, they do something positive. Nicholas Johnson is one of them. A few more could take a page out of his "how to treat a potential client" book , read it and memorize it. These reps are trying to sell us something....it's up to them to come through with the "warranty" so to speak....not turn on the customers. To be in sales you need a thick skin, patience, empathy, and know enough not to make promises you cannot keep. To coin a phrase "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen"....the ones still in the kitchen are the ones that will make it.

[gloria460]

There's also a phrase that we all deserve the same amount of respect as the next human being. She could have used a little more tact in dealing with some of the responses but what makes a player think that they can say anything they want to and get away with it. That's one of the main reasons I would never be in customer service bc the customer is not always right.

[osulle]

There's also a phrase that we all deserve the same amount of respect as the next human being. She could have used a little more tact in dealing with some of the responses but what makes a player think that they can say anything they want to and get away with it. That's one of the main reasons I would never be in customer service bc the customer is not always right.

Gloria you hit the nail on the head. Its not so much the message but how it was delivered. Good customer service is not rocket science and there are always better way to say things.

I read the posts and felt insulted and offended by the tone since we all know about those secret lists that determine how customers get treated.
Its kinda like saying we will take your money no problem at all but don't expect a smile or a thanks in the checkout line. Service like that makes me go elsewhere whenever I encounter it.
You said it Gloria, if we all wanted to be treated like human beings. I am sure the problem with Rival belongs with the home company but come on Slotocash is independant and they know how to treat people. So does Ruby Royal. All customers are entitled to be treated with respect and I think maybe that is why so many posters are negative in this thread. They feel that Rival is lacking respect for its customers. Just my opinion.

[osulle]

We all vent from time to time...that helps to keep us sane. When we feel we are being ignored, and in our mind, have done nothing wrong, but no one listens we tend to go public to see if there is anyone else out there that has experienced the same lack of response. There are a few reps on here that understand this and answer with civility, they don't tell us to go somewhere else, they don't chastise us for being vocal, they do something positive. Nicholas Johnson is one of them. A few more could take a page out of his "how to treat a potential client" book , read it and memorize it. These reps are trying to sell us something....it's up to them to come through with the "warranty" so to speak....not turn on the customers. To be in sales you need a thick skin, patience, empathy, and know enough not to make promises you cannot keep. To coin a phrase "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen"....the ones still in the kitchen are the ones that will make it.

I agree Nicholas Johanson is always tactful and pleasant in his posts.

[clj7221]

I agree Nicholas Johanson is always tactful and pleasant in his posts.

To bad we don't have awards to give out for the best Rep. If we did, Nicolas Johnson would certainly get my vote. This Gentleman is so kind, possitive just a darling person. I have never won anything at his Casino, and I hardly take any bonuses they have because most of them make it impossible to win. But who cares, just having Nicolas as a rep alone, is worth playing at his casino.

[vinylweatherman]

Coxwell : i think you really need to understand something. Your account has been flagged 3 weeks ago but i decided to unflagged it 2 weeks later. So you received ND and the 150% match bonus, right? But you didn't deposited since more than one month, so i cannot continue to add ND and nice match bonuses considering you didn't deposited since a long time... So, unless you used your last match bonuses, i'm affraid you won't receive new ND and you won't receive new match bonuses unless i decided to make a global offer for all players as i made yesterday by example :-)


Chuchu59 : I think you're right, perhaps my method can seem a bit brutal, because i waited a long time hoping that tradition profit will improve but it didn't at all, so i have had to implement drastic measures for these specific classes immediately and we're making a lot of tests, hoping to find the solution about giving fun to players but without losing our money. That's exactly why i told in this thread that those measures are not definitive, and more, we're still continuying to accept some players banned from other casinos, and we're still continuying to give bonuses to some players bonus banned from other casinos. What i mean is that i'm still continuying to take more risks than most of Rival casinos, even if we made some new restrictions on some players accounts. If you know some players bonus banned from other rival, simply ask them to register in Tradition and you'll see that they won't be banned in my casino, unless they made chargeback of course :-)

Osulle : your case is very special as i already told you by PM and remember that i made some efforts in your account even if your class brought me so many problems... Sure, i didn't have problems with your account in my casino but sometimes it's not enough. I can tell you now that i discover that the problem with your account do not depend from Tradition, it depends on an other rival casino who put your account in a sort of blacklist. If necesary, i can now tell you why, so simply send me a pm and i will explain to you what is your problem with all Rival casinos. And be sure that if 3 rival accepted to give you bonuses, it's because you have an old account with them or because these casinos didn't yet study the new Rival warnings given to all operators.

BMWSTACK : Once time again, what is your problem? Is it because i can prove that we always answer to your emails because, for sure, we kept all emails received and sent? remember : i proposed you to send you by Pm all emails received and sent, because i wanted you realize that you were wrong insisting on the fact that we didn't reply to you. But you never told me "ok, send me all emails, perhaps i'm wrong"... It's injust for my team.
More, you told you apreciate "accessible, fair, helpful rep" : you meant that i'm not! i'm affraid i'm perhaps too accessible for players and if i changed my way of work, be sure i won't spend so much time to read forums, this one and the others. If i won't, i could go to the beach instead of trying to open dialog with players and give individual answer!
So, listen, perhaps i'm a bit vivacious and i shouldn't be like this because i should be more patient due to the fact that i'm discussing with you and you're all my customers. But i'm like this and i'm affraid it won't change, i'm a bit too old now lol On an other hand, i don't want for now ask to employees to discuss with players, i prefer to do it myself because players are too importants for me. Last, I had a look in your account and your account is perfect, you have still nice match bonus deposit waiting for you and also ND bonuses...


vinylweatherman : Sorry but i'm not sure you understood the situation...I had two choices with those specific risky classes : suspend bonuses or suspend accounts. I decided to adopt the first one and for some classes i even continued to give bonuses, even if conditions seems not apreciated (30 wagering). Last, these risky classes problems are not all specifically linked to bonus abuse. It can be : bonus abuse, chargeback, duplicate local accounts, risky payments methods, bad Rival ranking, ect. Causes can be very differents but the result seems to be the same : we lost too much money with thoses classes and it deserved good players, i cannot punish good players because of risky players classes.


Nifty29 : I understand what you explained "Its possible that tradition may have taken a few hits, but they havent been operating that long and it seems quite normal for this to occur with a new casino.....but the only way to get in the black and stay there is to entice those winners to give their winnings back i.e. become regular depositors and by pulling their promotions they have probably gauranteed that a whole lot of them wont be back. Im in a winning position (just) at tradition, but it is NOT due to bonuses....almost every win was from a straight deposit...." The problem is that at the beginning i have had this reaction so i continued to give nice bonuses to these accounts but i continued to lose money more and more. So i stopped to give bonuses :-) You spoke about landbased casinos who give fantastic gifts to winners, i know it. But do not forget that landbased casinos never offered bonuses on deposits lol More, offering a fantastic suite is the best way for be sure that the winner will stay close to the casino, exactly because this winner won't stay in his room for sure ;-) So, this is the big difference! I cannot offer to my winners to sleep close to Tradition lol But, by example, i sent champaign luxury box to our biggest players in december because i wanted to make them pleasure :-)

Coxwell is now in "catch22". he had promos, but now they have gone. maybe he was waiting to have enough money, but when he did, the promos were not there. Now YOU won't put them back till he deposits, but HE is waiting for them to come back and THEN he might deposit. Neither side moves, but pretty soon Coxwell will start looking elsewhere.

The "bonus abuse" class seems to include ALL players who have won, and has nothing much to do with "abusive" manipulation of bonuses. It is even evident that players who have deposited without a bonus, but then won enough to go positive at Rival, get put into a "bonus banned" class. It can be for nothing other than making that win, from their own money.

You admit that a player whose account gave you no problems whatsoever had to be "bonus banned" because a DIFFERENT Rival casino had previously had a "problem" with their account. This simply should not matter to you UNLESS it was related to FRAUD, and you feared you were simply being set up for the "take down" by the good behaviour.

Bonus banning for "risky payment methods" is complete bullshit, if a payment method is risky, you stand to lose even if you DON'T offer players a bonus. The proper response would be to stop accepting that particular payment method until the risks were under control.
The fact that Rival caters to AMERICAN players means that it is CHIEFLY "risky payment methods" that will be used, and there is NOTHING the player can do about it, since it is ILLEGAL for an American based procesor to have any part in the transactions, so they have to be conducted "offshore", and by secretive outfits.

What we really want to know is what Rival MEAN by "bonus abuse", it certainly isn't something in the terms and conditions, so that players can check in advance what Rival expects them to do in relation to the bonus system. So far, despite what has been said, it seems the MAIN definition Rival use is "player has won overall", and even if it's a player who rarely takes a bonus, they are banned from them anyway.

For someone who has never played at any Rival, this sends out the message that once I win, I will be treated like dirt by the "class" system. This could happen right away, or it could happen after many years of loyalty to the brand after getting an incredibly lucky streak.