Betfred - The bonus abuse accusing king

[vinylweatherman]

I disagree.

What casinos cry when no terms have been broken is NOT bonus abuse, on that we agree.

Unintentionally breaching a rule is NOT bonus abuse either.

Deliberately breaching a rule IS bonus abuse.

OK Fair enough. It's a disagreement on terminology, not fact. Bryan himself is the one who says that "bonus abuse" in it's own right does not exist UNLESS accompanied by a breach in the terms. The argument stems from casinos that deem "bonus abuse" to have taken place on the grounds of "we didn't like the way you played", even when such play was within the terms. This allows too wide a degree of freedom for casinos, and is unfair in the casino - player relationship.

This case is about an interpretation of terms, and whether the OP misunderstood, or WILFULLY tried to exploit an apparent loophole in how the software handled automated crediting of bonuses. Since the OP said that "other players" had posted of getting away with exploiting this loophole, it is more a case of why were they allowed to get away with it, rather than why the OP was not.

Playtech casinos have a reputation for assuming ALL British players are schemers, which is why they get little sympathy from me. I didn't post it, but I suspected that the OP was treated more harshly than those "other players" simply because he was from the UK, and preferred Blackjack.

In this case, the casino adhered to Casinomeister standards, and beyond, by paying out despite being able to demonstrate a specific breach of terms, and THEN issuing a bonus ban. The OP should realise that it is likely they have been flagged as a "schemer", and no amount of "loyal play without a bonus" is going to get them back on the promo list for a third attempt at "advantage play" - best move on to another casino, or develop a liking for other games.

I have some sympathy for the OP since I also saw nothing wrong in using the sportsbook "purse" as an "ewallet" for making "fresh deposits" into the casino part. This was simply because I had never come upon this central purse system before, because I had only played casinos. Now, I know that in general sportsbooks do NOT consider such internal transfers as true "fresh deposits".
I got caught by this at Ladbrokes - and a post on Casinomeister from a respected member who said this was OK with them, and following this, they updated their terms to make it very clear indeed what was considered a "fresh deposit" into the casino for promotional purposes. There is NO scope for argument with THEIR version.

This should be one for the "player 101" guides on how multi-faceted sites define "deposits" in terms of promotional purposes, since the casino software they use does tend to be vulnerable to this exploit. No doubt there ARE true "bonus abusers" out there who KNOW this is against the rules, but that a software "bug" gives them a good chance of getting away with it.

[rpalmer83]

Sorry to raise this thread again but after the hassle I had with Betfred last time I am now having some more. I stopped playing with them in May because I was losing money and just couldn't afford to lose more. Ever since they have been sending me marketing material inviting me to claim a 'Silver' VIP monthly reload which I'll be honest I have been tempted to claim but resisted. Anyway on Friday I decided to play again and thought I may as well take advantage of the promotion on my deposit. Anyway I deposited an recieved no bonus and Live Chat told me there was a problem enabling it and I needed to email them. Emailed them and they sent me this:

Hello Ryan,



Unfortunately the casino team has come to a final decision regarding your bonus and they have decided not to allow any further bonuses on your account.



Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.



Kind Regards,



Yits

Betfred Casino

Gaming Services

www.betfred.com



“Don’t forget, this weekend starting Friday 6th through until Sunday 8th at 11:59 GMT, you can take part in our Bonfire Bonus Bonanza!! Get up to £100 FREE EVERY day you deposit and play. Click here for more information.”

This is despite recieving the latest email on Friday:

Dear Ryan,

Thank you for choosing to play with Betfred Casino.

As a 'Silver' VIP member don't forget that you are entitled to receive a 100% monthly reload bonus up to GBP 150 for your first deposit each and every month!

Deposit GBP 150, to claim the maximum bonus and play with double the money for more chances to win playing your favourite casino games! Click here to find out more about your VIP rewards.

If you have not yet opted-in for this exclusive offer, you can do so today by simply contacting 'Online Support' via the casino lobby or via any of our instant casino games. You will then receive the bonus funds on your very next deposit as soon as you have opted-in.





Don't forget that as a Silver VIP, you can convert the comp points you earn at the casino at a rate of 1.00 free cash for every 100 comp points earned. Find out more.

We look forward to seeing you at the casino!



Best of luck with your games!

Winning Wishes,

Betfred Casino Team
www.betfredcasino.com

I would also like to clarify that the initial issue with bonuses when this thread was started was supposedly down to me transferring to and from the sportsbook. I understood fully that this wasn't allowed and didn't and have never done it since. Any deposits into the casino were fresh deposits from my debit card/Neteller. I complied fully with their rules.

Anyway I'm not going through swings and roundabouts again with them. I have emailed them and told them to close my account and take me off the mailing list. Sending people emails to trap people into making deposits and promising them something they can't have is false advertising and spamming. I have also lodged a complaint with the ASA on these grounds.

I will never ever deal with them again!.

I mean look at whats written at the bottom of the original email apologising that I can recieve no further bonuses. They're marketing is shocking.

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry to raise this thread again but after the hassle I had with Betfred last time I am now having some more. I stopped playing with them in May because I was losing money and just couldn't afford to lose more. Ever since they have been sending me marketing material inviting me to claim a 'Silver' VIP monthly reload which I'll be honest I have been tempted to claim but resisted. Anyway on Friday I decided to play again and thought I may as well take advantage of the promotion on my deposit. Anyway I deposited an recieved no bonus and Live Chat told me there was a problem enabling it and I needed to email them. Emailed them and they sent me this:



This is despite recieving the latest email on Friday:



I would also like to clarify that the initial issue with bonuses when this thread was started was supposedly down to me transferring to and from the sportsbook. I understood fully that this wasn't allowed and didn't and have never done it since. Any deposits into the casino were fresh deposits from my debit card/Neteller. I complied fully with their rules.

Anyway I'm not going through swings and roundabouts again with them. I have emailed them and told them to close my account and take me off the mailing list. Sending people emails to trap people into making deposits and promising them something they can't have is false advertising and spamming. I have also lodged a complaint with the ASA on these grounds.

I will never ever deal with them again!.

I mean look at whats written at the bottom of the original email apologising that I can recieve no further bonuses. They're marketing is shocking.

You have a good case, but any ruling by the ASA will be a technicality, since the casino are not regulated within the UK. It may be an EMBARRASSMENT though (so don't be shy posting their answer), since they CLEARLY made you a PERSONAL offer, and THEN denied it ONLY when you had carried out your part of the deal by depositing.
They should have made it CLEAR from the start that you could not receive further bonuses on your account, AND they should have ensured you were removed from any mailing lists promoting bonuses. To target advertising at people who CANNOT take advantage of the offer is indeed "false/misleading advertising".

[rpalmer83]

You have a good case, but any ruling by the ASA will be a technicality, since the casino are not regulated within the UK. It may be an EMBARRASSMENT though (so don't be shy posting their answer), since they CLEARLY made you a PERSONAL offer, and THEN denied it ONLY when you had carried out your part of the deal by depositing.
They should have made it CLEAR from the start that you could not receive further bonuses on your account, AND they should have ensured you were removed from any mailing lists promoting bonuses. To target advertising at people who CANNOT take advantage of the offer is indeed "false/misleading advertising".

They market directly to the UK, People who are resident in the UK (like me) should not be subject to this kind of marketing because it is against the law in this country?, thats my understanding anyway. Like you say, it will be an embarrasment to them because their main operation is a UK one. It is wrong to promise things they are in reality unwilling to offer. I will post the ASA's response in full as soon as I have it.

I will have absolutely nothing to do with BetFred ever again after this. If they want the public to see my account 'behaviour' then I publicly give them permission to post my BetFred casino account history on these forums and let the public decide. I have nothing to hide. I cannot see what grounds they have to decline bonuses that I have been marketed to as being able to claim.

I do not want to hear 'sorry' or 'we made a mistake' 'we will review our marketing policy'. I have had enough of this company. There are plenty of others out there who understand and look after their customers much better. To me, having to complain about a companys practices once is once too often but to have to complain twice about what is effectively a similar thing is taking the P!.

They reserve the right to revoke a customers promotion entitlement, I accept that because its in their terms. However to market to them that they can claim a promotion and only inform them afterwards that they do not qualify is absolutely not acceptable.

Silver VIP that I am supposed to be?, thats credibility for you. I wouldn't consider myself a VIP of any description the treatment I've had from BetFred. Unless thier definition of VIP is a "Very Idiotic Person"

I know of no other casino that on a day to day basis practices this policy like they do, unless they are rogue.

[Betfred]

Hi,

Thank you for brining this matter to my attention.

Firstly please accept our sincere apologies. You definitely should not have been targeted with a promotional offer if your account had been amended so that no bonuses would be awarded.

Please rest assured that this is in no way a common practise at Betfred. Customer satisfaction is of the utmost importance to us and we would not want to mislead customers in anyway. We do have steps in place to ensure that this does not happen but unfortunately on this occasion it does appear that an error occurred.

We fully acknowledge that this is not acceptable and would once again like to offer you our full apologies for any confusion and inconvenience caused. I have also contacted our marketing team to ensure that no further emails are sent to you in future.

Due to the fact that you were offered a bonus via email, we will honour what has been offered on this occasion if you wish. However from your recent comments we would fully respect and understand your decision if you decline to play at Betfred Casino and also refrain from taking advantage of the offer available.

We hope that this is satisfactory and would like to assure you that we are not a rogue casino. In fact we have actually been accredited by Casinomeister.

Kind Regards,

Phil
Betfred Casino

[rpalmer83]

Hi,

Thank you for brining this matter to my attention.

Firstly please accept our sincere apologies. You definitely should not have been targeted with a promotional offer if your account had been amended so that no bonuses would be awarded.

Please rest assured that this is in no way a common practise at Betfred. Customer satisfaction is of the utmost importance to us and we would not want to mislead customers in anyway. We do have steps in place to ensure that this does not happen but unfortunately on this occasion it does appear that an error occurred.

We fully acknowledge that this is not acceptable and would once again like to offer you our full apologies for any confusion and inconvenience caused. I have also contacted our marketing team to ensure that no further emails are sent to you in future.

Due to the fact that you were offered a bonus via email, we will honour what has been offered on this occasion if you wish. However from your recent comments we would fully respect and understand your decision if you decline to play at Betfred Casino and also refrain from taking advantage of the offer available.

We hope that this is satisfactory and would like to assure you that we are not a rogue casino. In fact we have actually been accredited by Casinomeister.

Kind Regards,

Phil
Betfred Casino

Unfortunately, this has gone way beyond a simple case of making a gesture to honour what was originally offered for me. When playing at an online casino, customers expect to be able to play in the casino and any incentive which is offered to them should be credited without hinderence and unless it is proven that a customer is deliberately making a mockery of a promotion then there shouldn't be any issue. I have not 'abused' any promotions offered in your casino in terms of ONLY depositing just to avail of bonus funds and when I have claimed a bonus I have met or exceeded the terms and conditions to the letter. You ammended the unclear term regarding 'sportsbook' transfers. I have NOT done any of these types of transfers since it was made clear. What is interesting is that I haven't played in the casino since May of this year, have always recieved the emails inviting me to claim VIP reloads which I simply haven't taken up because I did not have the money to play. There were even popups in the casino software advising me that I was eligible to claim the reload!.

Also what is the excuse for the marketing of a bonus directly on the end of the customer service email advising me that I am no longer allowed bonuses on the account?

Hello Ryan,



Unfortunately the casino team has come to a final decision regarding your bonus and they have decided not to allow any further bonuses on your account.



Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.



Kind Regards,



Yits

Betfred Casino

Gaming Services

www.betfred.com



“Don’t forget, this weekend starting Friday 6th through until Sunday 8th at 11:59 GMT, you can take part in our Bonfire Bonus Bonanza!! Get up to £100 FREE EVERY day you deposit and play. Click here for more information.”

In any case, I am sorry but I would like to respectfully decline your gesture of honouring the original bonus emailed and still would like my account closing in full. My relationship with your business has completely soured. This is due to this latest issue coupled with the last one which even though was settled amicably I was not completely satisfied at having to go to such drastic lengths to get my concerns listened to. The reality is I do not trust you, I have never been given the run around as much over something so trivial as a promotional incentive in my entire life. Other online gaming companies look after their customers much better and I won't be going near BetFred ever again and that includes the land based shops.

Quite frankly I find it disgusting for a company to have a slogan of 'The Bonus King' when It is quite clear you make it awkward for the customer to recieve a bonus of any kind.

And to clarify I did not intend to infer that BetFred was a 'Rogue' casino, just that the treatment I have recieved from you is the type of treatment I'd expect from a Rogue.

[rpalmer83]

Just to let you all know, I contacted the GRA (Gibraltar Regulatory Authority) and the ASA (Advertising Standards Agency). Both of whom agreed BetFred were in the wrong here and in the ASA's case they gave me the oppertunity to make a full complaint where they would be formally investigated. I decided not to persue the complaints any further but asked them to keep my complaint on record incase of any similar situations croping up in the future for other customers.

The reason I did not take the complaint any further is because I have now closed my account with BetFred. It took them almost a week to act on my instructions to close the account. So impeccable customer service yet again!. No personal email was sent informing the account was closed, nor did they appologise any further or attempt to retain me as a customer. Evidently they are glad i've gone and believe me the feeling is more than mutual!.


The owner Fred Done claims

The 64-year-old marathon runner says that he has made it by offering customers a genuine alternative to his bigger rivals, William Hill and Ladbrokes.There’s only one person you have to please and that is the customer – he’s the guy we can’t do without,” Mr Done said. “I’ve always bent over backwards for the customer, but in some companies it’s an afterthought.”

They do not appreciate their customers at all in my experience. Twice I have been treated like im something they've stepped in on the pavement. I am sorry but you cannot hold a torch to Ladbrokes!, they do not throw wild accusations at their customers, revoke privileges for anything that can be pulled out of a hat nor do they send customers marketing material for promotions they are not allowed.

Anyway this is now the end of the matter, the 'resolved' tag at the beginning of the thread title is correct. I seriously encourage any other BetFred customers who've had a similar experience to mine to close their account and move to another casino. Bet365, Circus, William Hill for example all use the same software and thus will have the same games and im sure they will treat you MUCH better!.

[scottjack]

I thought I remembered seeing this on here a few weeks ago.

I was also took off Betfred's bonus list with no circumstances I can think of, I was in fact emailed a bonus so deposited for it (It was a two day bonus), lost all of money (I've no problem with this if that's how the session goes) and was then swifty removed from their bonus list the following Monday. No bonus abuse, nothing.

I thought it was very underhand to offer players bonuses, have them lose money then remove them form their bonus lists.

I asked them to close my account and received an email from them with the following line in it...

Hello xxxx,

Thank you for contacting Betfred Casino.

We are sorry that you have chosen to close your BETFRED account. This has now been done as you requested.

So if my account has been closed, why did then today receive an email for a free bet?

Seems like rpalmer83's not the only one that they "forgot" to remove from their promo emails.