Resolved iNetBet has confiscated my winnings!

[Mario77]

Here's the story:

At 31th October I deposited $50 to iNetBet Casino to receive the $50 Halloween bonus. The terms at the promotion page said this: "Offers do not apply to Craps, Roulette, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play." So, I decided to play single-hand video poker and won $375, so my balance become $475 ($50 deposit + $50 bonus + $375 winnings).

After this they voided my winnings and said that video poker is an excluded game. However, the terms at the promotion page didn't mention single-hand video poker as excluded game, just multi-hand.

When I informed them about this, they have changed the promotion page and added video poker to the excluded games' list. However, at the time of my deposit the page didn't mention single-hand video poker as excluded.

The real shock was that they denied that they changed anything!! However, I made screenshots before they changed the page, and also Google Cache still have the old version, here is the link:

http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache...n&ct=clnk&cd=1

At the top of the page it says this: "It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 31 Oct 2008 21:22:27 GMT." This proves that at 31th October there was no mention of single-hand video poker, just multi-hand. This is also an evidence that it is not true that they have not changed anything.

The problem is that they keep saying that all video poker is excluded but it is a fact that at the time of my deposit it was not excluded, according to the terms and conditions section at the Halloween promotion page.

They also sent me the link to the general promotion terms which say that video poker is excluded, unless otherwise stated. However, the Halloween promotion had different terms, the playthrough requirement and the list of excluded games were different, i.e. "otherwise stated".

I would like to hear your opinions about this issue.

[Pinababy69]

I'm not a Video Poker player....but even so, Multi Hand and Single Hand are NOT the same thing, that much I do know. They most definitely listed ONLY multi-hand VP in their exclusions. If they wanted to exclude single hand as well, they should have worded it as "all variants of Video Poker", not just Multi Hand.

Your case seems pretty clear cut to me Mario, I think you should be paid.

Have you PM'd Emily Hanson, the Inetbet manager? If you go to the top of the forum, you'll see a link that says I-Gaming Forum Reps. Click on that and scroll down to Emily's name, and send her a PM. I would like to hear Inetbet's take on this. But it does seem pretty simple to me. They made a mistake in their T and C's, and that's not your fault and should not have your winnings voided.

Just for future reference Mario, any time you take a bonus, it's always a good idea to double check what is and isn't allowed (through support), and what the WR are, and get it in writing. You shouldn't HAVE to do that, but because of all the issues that arise from bonuses, it's generally just a smart move.

[Mario77]

It may seem simple to you but the fact is that during the last 4 weeks I tried to solve this privately with no result. It is my final desperation that I write here.

I have not PM'd Emily but I sent numerous e-mails to their support and I also sent a Pitch-A-Bitch, the casino was contacted by Max, but the result was that the general promotion rules exclude video poker and even if video poker is missing from that promotion's excluded games list, it doesn't mean that it is allowed.

However I think that if a promotion has a different list of excluded games that means that it is "otherwise stated".

You are right that it is good to ask the support what is allowed and what is not, but in this case it was clear to me that single-hand video poker is not excluded and I didn't think that I will have this kind of problem at an accredited casino. Also it was a shock that they denied that they changed the page.

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by Mario77

I also sent a Pitch-A-Bitch, the casino was contacted by Max, but the result was that the general promotion rules exclude video poker and even if video poker is missing from that promotion's excluded games list, it doesn't mean that it is allowed.

So they are saying that the terms listed on THAT page for that promotion, aren't the rules you should refer to when playing that promotion? But that you should refer to their general promo rules?

Max, can you comment at all on this, and what your feeling is on that? Shouldn't a casino be held to the promotion specific terms that they include on the page where the promotion details are? It is only natural that anyone claiming that particular promotion would read the rules for that promotion, and abide by them. Why would a player say "hmmmm, okay here are the terms for this promo, but maybe I'd better go and dig up their general rules, to see if they differ"?

Sorry Inetbet, but you got this one wrong....very, very wrong. And not what I expect from you guys at all. I'm very disappointed. The player abided by the terms that you wrote for that promotion. It is not his fault that you made an error and forgot to include single hand video poker in those terms. He played a game that was NOT excluded from THAT promotion, he won, he should be paid, period. Next time have someone proof read the terms for specific promotions prior to posting them on your website.

[vinylweatherman]

Terms and conditions:


With trick or treat coupons players must adhere to all of our rules and regulations. Offers start at 12:00am October 31st and expire 11:59pm, November 2nd 2008. One bonus per player / household (location) and computer. Match bonuses will be added to a players account on redemption. All bonuses must be wagered 15x before cash out can be made, unless otherwise stated. All deposit AND wagering must take place within the allotted time of promotion. Minimum deposits and Maximum Bonuses apply as above. Offers do not apply to Craps, Roulette, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play. Please note players are unable to use any bonus monies in their Bingo accounts prior to all wagering requirements being met. With game specific bonuses, monies can only be used on given game. Any play / winnings gained on excluded games with monies including a bonus or part thereof will result in all winnings being void. Full wagering requirements must be met prior to cash out. With all winnings due, players may be asked to provide proof of legal age. iNetBet reserves the right to withdraw bonus credit in cases of bonus abuse. Some accounts may not be eligible for bonus coupons due to previous bonus abuse.

Free monies can only be claimed by players who have deposited and played for real money in the last 6 months (since May 1st 2008). Should the coupon be claimed without this being the case no cash out will be permitted. Standard non deposit rules and regulations apply.

Looks like a genuine Google cache link, and it does indeed specify only Multi-Hand Video Poker.

If iNetBet didn't mean this, they made a typo, but should honour what they wrote, not what they MEANT to write.

UNLESS these is something else to this case, and this is indeed the reason for confiscation, then you may PAB, since iNetBet is an accredited casino.

I am pretty shocked at this allegation, especially since the OP has provided some damn good evidence with a Google cached page.

Maybe there were specific terms on the coupon itself, which would override the more general Halloween terms, which themselves override the general "catch all" promotional terms.

It is not necessary to state anything other than "Video Poker", as by default, this means EVERY variety of video poker machine, qualifying it with "multi-hand" does indeed make the exclusion specific to VP machines offering more than one hand per deal.

I had this promo offered, but I have not played at iNetbet since a VERY odd error indeed, where I had a slot say I had a bonus round, but then gave an error whenever I tried to play it off.
To their credit, iNetBet awarded me the average payout of all bonus rounds, rather than simply refunding the bet, but this kind of software malfunction gets me worried - what if a far larger amount were a stake, I am not happy that RTG software can simply make a bet disappear.

I have seen posts of claims that Microgaming does this too, however in those cases it is possible for the casino to retrieve the problem, and there is Playcheck available for the player to inspect.

PS, I have noticed the OP joined this month, and then immediately complained about iNetBet - so certainly NOT an open & shut case, there MAY be more to this.

[Pinababy69]

Read his last post Vinyl....this has been ongoing for four weeks, he has already Pitched a Bitch....and posting here is his last resort. Looks to me like he's followed all the rules to the letter.

I may have to stop playing altogether at Inetbet, if they won't reverse this decision. Based on what has been presented, this is as wrong as it gets. Before making a final judgement, I'd like to hear what Max and/or Bryan have to say.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Mario77

It may seem simple to you but the fact is that during the last 4 weeks I tried to solve this privately with no result. It is my final desperation that I write here.

I have not PM'd Emily but I sent numerous e-mails to their support and I also sent a Pitch-A-Bitch, the casino was contacted by Max, but the result was that the general promotion rules exclude video poker and even if video poker is missing from that promotion's excluded games list, it doesn't mean that it is allowed.

However I think that if a promotion has a different list of excluded games that means that it is "otherwise stated".

You are right that it is good to ask the support what is allowed and what is not, but in this case it was clear to me that single-hand video poker is not excluded and I didn't think that I will have this kind of problem at an accredited casino. Also it was a shock that they denied that they changed the page.

Well, no, "general" rules are OVERRIDDEN by SPECIFIC rules - if the general rules stood, there would be no need for specific rules.

iNetBet need to get their act together and iron out these inconsistencies between the different sets of rules - this creates CONFUSION. There should be ONE PLACE where rules and exclusions are stated, and these linked too. Individual coupons should CLEARLY state ANY differences between their rules, and the general ones, again to avoid this kind of confusion.

The ONLY way to avoid this problem is to play ONLY the RTG slots - but even then, iNetBet has a trap - look for coupons mentioning "classic slots", because even playing the wrong kind of SLOT can cause trouble.

[silcnlayc]

Did you meet the WR before withdrawing because they are totally different when playing a card based vs a slot based game in all the bonuses I have read about and since the VP had no T&C's attached to them, this is a very muddy scenrio because this can be a voided transaction...due to the WR for VP IMO.

Most casinos say 10% of any card play will reult in a credit for WR..what is this one since it was not stated? Not all your bets are credited once you play a card game..That is at almost EVERY casino...

Definitely should have checked when there were no wagering credits attached to this one game. That , to me, would have been a red flag due to the other casinos T&C's including Inetbets for VP.

Hopefully it will be resolved....


.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Mario77

It may seem simple to you but the fact is that during the last 4 weeks I tried to solve this privately with no result. It is my final desperation that I write here.

I have not PM'd Emily but I sent numerous e-mails to their support and I also sent a Pitch-A-Bitch, the casino was contacted by Max, but the result was that the general promotion rules exclude video poker and even if video poker is missing from that promotion's excluded games list, it doesn't mean that it is allowed.

However I think that if a promotion has a different list of excluded games that means that it is "otherwise stated".

You are right that it is good to ask the support what is allowed and what is not, but in this case it was clear to me that single-hand video poker is not excluded and I didn't think that I will have this kind of problem at an accredited casino. Also it was a shock that they denied that they changed the page.

Can you tell us which SPECIFIC coupon on that page you used, there are 4 altogether, plus a non-winning "trick" cauldron? (This MIGHT make a difference, if there were overriding terms on the coupon itself, such as "slots only".)


EDIT:

I have checked them,

FF3XB - $5 free

U8AD8 - 100% SLOTS ONLY - so OVERRIDES the general rules. (If you take this one you CANNOT play ANY game OTHER than SLOTS).

YCJ89 - 100% match, refers to T & C below for game exclusions, thus this would ALLOW the SINGLE HAND variant of VP as stated.

The other cauldron was the "trick"

[Pinababy69]

I just pulled up the page as it exists NOW, and Mario is right, they have changed it to include Video Poker. This is what it reads now:

Offers do not apply to Craps, Roulette, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play.

And this is how the cached page reads:

Offers do not apply to Craps, Roulette, Multi-Hand Video Poker, Blackjack/21 variants or Baccarat play.

They absolutely HAVE changed the page and added in Video Poker. And yet they tell Mario that they didn't? Simply unreal. I don't want you to post it Mario, but do you have the email where they denied changing anything on that page?