Grand Mondial advisory

[brianzz]

I posted this on another smaller forum for an affiliate that was interested. At this time no CM intervention is requested but I thought the players here should know how dodgy this place really is. If this isn't posted in the right place, either move it or just delete it.

Some may think this is petty, but if they'd cheat a player out of $17.80 (in reality $67.80 in bonus spins) they'd do anything.

From the smaller forum:
Ok this will be a huge post with lots of chat, vulgar language and huge photos... if this is too offensive delete it. This post isn't about the money, it's about the morals, ethics and standards of this casino leaving not only the players hung out to dry but pretty much saying their own affiliates are liars. I have blanked my account detail out.

To start with, yesterday morning I was looking around for a newer casino to play because I was bored with the other Microgamings. Being a frequenter to another forum I ignored the "Global" Mondial posts because they never really interested me. I ran across it yesterday and though I'd give them a shot, although I had heard some pretty rough stuff about them.

So I went to mondials website, read the terms again and again over the course of about an hour and a half. I noticed both of the free spin welcome offers were for $1 spins, so I thought that was a pretty good deal. I downloaded, deposited, got 100% bonus, lost deposited again for the 50 free spins. I thought $20 match + $22 Birthday + $50 2nd deposit spins was a pretty good deal.

The birthday spins weren't credited in a timely manner as promised by the website terms and conditions which I checked continually after the 4 hour time frame had passed but I also noticed the value of each spin had been dramatically decreased. I started to get suspicious of the old bait and switch used by some unsavory casinos in the past. I figured I'd be ok since when I signed up they said $1 and tons of affiliate promos and banners and forum posts also said $1 spins, so I felt pretty sure they were for $1.

When I logged in this morning I had no spins on Tomb Raider and the spins on Cashapillar were for .10 cents each, the amount noted on the website after I waited 4 hours after registration. That's when this live chat fiasco broke out.

Note there is some very harsh language in this post because I was VERY pissed off at this live chat operator who would not answer ANY of my questions.

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
Welcome to Casino support live help, one moment please for world-class service
Hansley: Hi, and thank you for using our Live Chat facility! Allow me to introduce myself as your chat representative...
Hansley: will be assisting you, how could I be of service...
Vgmr0*******: I made my first and 2nd deposits over 17 hours ago and still haven't been credited any free spins on tomb raider
Hansley: One moment please while we look into the matter for you?
Vgmr0*******: ok
Hansley: check your cashapillar you haven't used your spins there
Vgmr0*******: I have a question about that too
Vgmr0*******: after I use free spins on cashapillar the spins will show up on tomb raider?
Hansley: yes
Hansley: use the free spins on cashapillar if you made you second deposit the tomb raider spins will be credited automatically
Vgmr0*******: that doesn't answer my question
Vgmr0*******: the terms of the tomb raider 2nd deposit said within 8 hours of playing 2nd deposit through 1x spins will be shown on the game
Vgmr0*******: it's been 17 hours and they're not there
Vgmr0*******: so if I play the spins on cashapillar the tomb raiders will show up?
Hansley: please rest assured the spins will show
Hansley: sometimes it takes more time due to heavy traffic and the spins being automatically credited
Vgmr0*******: ok, now about the cashapillar free spins
Vgmr0*******: look and see what time yesterday the terms and conditions changed for that because I came from a posting by the affiliate manager that said the spins were worth $1 each
Vgmr0*******: yet they're only worth a dime each
Hansley: who told you that?
Vgmr0*******: there was a posting in the affiliate area for this casino from the affiliate manager
Hansley: which affiliate manager?
Vgmr0*******: the affiliate manager for grand mondial casino
Vgmr0*******: the person that works for this casino
Vgmr0*******: that pays the affiliates
Vgmr0*******: and also yesterday before I signed up I viewed the terms and conditions for the promotion and it said the spins would be worth $1 each
Hansley: you need to give us a link to where you saw that please
Vgmr0*******: honestly a $2.20 bonus to celebrate the casinos birthday would hardly be worth it
Hansley: and if you have a name for the affiliate manager
Vgmr0*******: I'm getting you a link right now
Hansley: I will be right with you.
Vgmr0*******: here's one link http://therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=596895
Vgmr0*******: and another http://www.jackpothunters.com/archiv....php/t-56.html
Hansley: kindly note that this is not our affiliate manager just someone who advertised our casino and we cannot be held liable for what they say in their forums
Vgmr0*******: I'm still working on the affiliate manager post along with the banners that say $22 free 22 free spins on cashapilla
Vgmr0*******: if you want to mislead players that's fine but you're not going to call me a liar
Vgmr0*******: I read the terms and conditions numerous times yesterday before I signed up and each time it said spin value $1
Vgmr0*******: here is the post from the affiliate manager refering to banners that I can't access because I am not an affiliate
Vgmr0*******: http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...d.php?p=167912
Vgmr0*******: Cherylann Smith is the managers name
Hansley: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.
Hansley: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Vgmr0*******: ok I found a copy of the terms and conditions in google that shows.. for a fact.. the free spins value is supposed to be $1
Vgmr0*******: this page is dated July 07, 2008 17:09:59 GMT
Hansley: if you read through everything that cherylann said do you find anywhere that it says 1spin $1?
Vgmr0*******: I have a cached copy of the birthday spins promotion page from google showing the terms stating the spins are $1 each 22 spins
Vgmr0*******: http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a
Vgmr0*******: there is the link
Vgmr0*******: if you can't get it to load correctly and show the entire terms and conditons I'll gladly make a screen shot of the promotion terms and send to you
Vgmr0*******: you're ripping players off using bait and switch
Hansley: where do you see in the terms and conditions that it says 1spin = $1?
Vgmr0*******: on that link click the more info link and it'll pop down
Vgmr0*******: I can take a screen shot or just copy and past
Vgmr0*******: # Players must open a first time REAL account on the Viper Software only at Grand Mondial in order to be eligible for this promotion. # The Grand Mondial Free Spins on Cashapillar Video Slot are only valid for new players. # For the purpose of this promotion, players will be allocated 22 free spins. This amount cannot be increased or reallocated during the promotion. # You will be awarded all of your free spins on Cashapillar Video Slot. # The process is automated - no need to claim or contact support. # Free Spins are limited to one eligible account. # Each spin will be to the value of $1.
Hansley: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Hansley: http://www.grandmondial.com/Promotions.aspx
Hansley: please use this link this is what is written on our website
Vgmr0*******: tell me when the terms changed
Hansley: Each spin will be to the value of $0.10. The Free spins are for the purposes of this promotion only and cannot be used as part of normal play.
Vgmr0*******: answer my damn question
Hansley: our terms haven't chaged
Vgmr0*******: when I signed up
Hansley: changed
Vgmr0*******: LISTEN
Vgmr0*******: when I signed up yesterday the terms and conditions said $1 each
Vgmr0*******: I have proof of that with a cached google page
Vgmr0*******: showing this same promotion with not .10 cent spins but $1.00 spins
Vgmr0*******: that's what the terms and conditions of the promotion said when I signed up yesterday
Hansley: this is from our website and you are the only one who is having this issue
Vgmr0*******: if you want to pull the old fliperoo on someone I'll need the exact time and date the terms were changed because I belive they were changed AFTER I signed up entitling me to the $1 spins and not the piss ant .10 spins
Vgmr0*******: the terms said $1 PER SPIN yesterday at 12:29 EST when I signed up why did they change?
Vgmr0*******: what time and date did the terms and conditions for the birthday bonus change?
Vgmr0*******: can you not answer a simple question?
Hansley: i would if you would just listen
Vgmr0*******: I've been listening you keep pointing me to a page with altered terms and condtions yet I've sent you a page with the terms and conditions I signed up under and you're refusing to honor
Hansley: i am refusing to honor something which is not in our terms and conditions
Vgmr0*******: the god damn terms and condtions changed AFTER I signed up
Vgmr0*******: do you honestly believe I would sign up for a $2 bonus?
Hansley: to change these terms and conditions would require a full shuffling of the whole system which cannot be done in such a short period of time
Vgmr0*******: bullshit, anyone with front page express can change the terms and condtions on a webpage in 3 seconds
Hansley: moreover with the number of clients who have accessed these spins you are the only one who has this problem. So this is quite odd
Vgmr0*******: you might think you're dealing with some amateur here but you're not
Hansley: if i thought so i would have ended the chat at the beggining and taken you for a liar
Vgmr0*******: how can you argue with a website that is stored on googles server of that terms and condtions page that says the spins are worth $1?
Hansley: which i havent done
Hansley: i am trying to help you out
Vgmr0*******: it's a xerox copy of your website that's stored on a google server
Hansley: changing the terms and conditions at this moment would mean that we would have to alter the accounts of all our new players that add up to thousands.
Vgmr0*******: that's your problem, evidently the promotion was more popular than you thought it would be so the terms were changed yesterday, which is very dirty and underhanded especially towards the affiliates who get your business
Vgmr0*******: I need to know what time yesterday the terms were changed
Hansley: the terms were not changed you are asking about something that did not happen
Vgmr0*******: I know for a fact it was AFTER I signed up so I deserve the $1 per spin that was stated in the T/C for the promo
Vgmr0*******: bullshit
Vgmr0*******: why do you keep saying that
Vgmr0*******: I have a page right here I've sent you
Vgmr0*******: I have screen shots of the page
Hansley: please note that foul language will not be tolerated
Vgmr0*******: I've copied and pasted the page and you're still calling me a liar
Vgmr0*******: sir or maam, you will NOT call me a liar
Hansley: i am not calling you a liar
Vgmr0*******: you just said the terms haven't changed
Hansley: you on the contratry have been abusive while i took everything and tried to answer your questions
Vgmr0*******: but I'm looking at a copy of the terms dated July 7 and it says the spins are worth $1
Vgmr0*******: not 10 cents
Vgmr0*******: I'm only abusive to people who abuse their customers by doing shady things like changing terms and conditions mid-promo and not notifying their own affiliates
Hansley: where in the chat above do you see me refer to you as a liar?
Vgmr0*******: there are players who have got the spins and they were worth $1 each
Vgmr0*******: one of your affiliates have assured me they were $1 each
Vgmr0*******: what more proof do you need?
Hansley: there is no such thing as 1`spins = $1
Vgmr0*******: I have screen shots, copy and paste, links, affiliates backing me up and you're still calling me a liar
Vgmr0*******: so tell me this
Vgmr0*******: in all your wisdom
Vgmr0*******: why would any casino give you a $2 bonus?
Vgmr0*******: that's a slap in the face
Vgmr0*******: and if one did give a $2 bonus why would it be played on a 100 playline game
Vgmr0*******: for 10 lines a push?
Hansley: you get bonuses according to your purchase
Vgmr0*******: you're insane
Hansley: you also get bonuses according to your loyalty points
Vgmr0*******: give me the casino managers email address
Vgmr0*******: and the promotions manager also
Hansley: there are all kinds of bonuses
Hansley: i would suggest that before you follow any link you check if they are trusted or not
Vgmr0*******: yeah well this was an advertised bonus on your website that states one thing and produces another
Vgmr0*******: you're saying that google isn't trusted?
Vgmr0*******: that's some big statement
Hansley: as is the idea that we changed our terms and conditions without even thinking of the extent.
Vgmr0*******: well evidently you did
Hansley: i do understand that you are angry
Vgmr0*******: and I have screen shots to prove it
Vgmr0*******: yes I'm angry, you're cheating players out of money
Vgmr0*******: this is a classic case of bait and switch
Vgmr0*******: but google busted you right in the middle of it
Vgmr0*******: I'm going to post this conversation on several gambling forums and see if I can't get the account numbers of people who got the free spins worth $1 each just to prove you wrong
Vgmr0*******: it's not the money, it's the principal
Vgmr0*******: this is unethical and immoral
Hansley: which is why we will never do something like that
Vgmr0*******: you did it I have screen shots to prove it
Hansley: because this would take us out of business and we do not risk such things
Vgmr0*******: google has a copy of the page to prove it, what more is needed?
Vgmr0*******: telling my the low account numbers you're well on your way out of business anyway
Vgmr0*******: this is obscene
Vgmr0*******: I asked for the casino managers email address and the promotions managers email address and you haven't provided yet
Hansley: as well as stupid if we do that
Vgmr0*******: stuid is as stupid does
Vgmr0*******: you did it, I caught you, google caught you and you'll get your come uppance
Hansley: which we are not
Vgmr0*******: casino managers email address please
Vgmr0*******: promotions managers email address please
Hansley: please?
Hansley: are you being reasonable?
Vgmr0*******: sure am
Hansley: are you now?
Vgmr0*******: I'm not blaming you, I'm sure you have no control over the matter but you don't have to sit and lie to me and tell me the terms haven't changed
Hansley: promotions@grandmondial.com
Hansley: you do realise that now?
Hansley: why the abusive language
Vgmr0*******: because I'm not one to be lied to or implied being a liar
Vgmr0*******: you've said over and over the terms haven't changed and they have
Hansley: no one implied! you thought so
Vgmr0*******: I'm the most logical person on earth, I know when I'm being called a liar, and you my friend have called me a liar
Vgmr0*******: thank you for your time, I'll send and email and post on a few forums to get some feed back and let the managers know

Below are screen shots in order as they appeared on the google cache server, feel free to look up the IP address to see that it's an actual google server. You can click the link but I can't promise that cached page will stay up there, but these are exact screen shots in 3 parts of that cached page stored on googles servers. I would have taken 1 image but my screen resolution is only set to 1280X1024 pixels. Again I apologize if images or vulgarities aren't allowed here but this is a complete underhanded, bait and switch, unethical practice used by this casino.

[Mario]

I posted this on another smaller forum for an affiliate that was interested. At this time no CM intervention is requested but I thought the players here should know how dodgy this place really is. If this isn't posted in the right place, either move it or just delete it.

Some may think this is petty, but if they'd cheat a player out of $17.80 (in reality $67.80 in bonus spins) they'd do anything.

From the smaller forum:
Ok this will be a huge post with lots of chat, vulgar language and huge photos... if this is too offensive delete it. This post isn't about the money, it's about the morals, ethics and standards of this casino leaving not only the players hung out to dry but pretty much saying their own affiliates are liars. I have blanked my account detail out.

To start with, yesterday morning I was looking around for a newer casino to play because I was bored with the other Microgamings. Being a frequenter to another forum I ignored the "Global" Mondial posts because they never really interested me. I ran across it yesterday and though I'd give them a shot, although I had heard some pretty rough stuff about them.

So I went to mondials website, read the terms again and again over the course of about an hour and a half. I noticed both of the free spin welcome offers were for $1 spins, so I thought that was a pretty good deal. I downloaded, deposited, got 100% bonus, lost deposited again for the 50 free spins. I thought $20 match + $22 Birthday + $50 2nd deposit spins was a pretty good deal.

The birthday spins weren't credited in a timely manner as promised by the website terms and conditions which I checked continually after the 4 hour time frame had passed but I also noticed the value of each spin had been dramatically decreased. I started to get suspicious of the old bait and switch used by some unsavory casinos in the past. I figured I'd be ok since when I signed up they said $1 and tons of affiliate promos and banners and forum posts also said $1 spins, so I felt pretty sure they were for $1.

When I logged in this morning I had no spins on Tomb Raider and the spins on Cashapillar were for .10 cents each, the amount noted on the website after I waited 4 hours after registration. That's when this live chat fiasco broke out.

Note there is some very harsh language in this post because I was VERY pissed off at this live chat operator who would not answer ANY of my questions.




Below are screen shots in order as they appeared on the google cache server, feel free to look up the IP address to see that it's an actual google server. You can click the link but I can't promise that cached page will stay up there, but these are exact screen shots in 3 parts of that cached page stored on googles servers. I would have taken 1 image but my screen resolution is only set to 1280X1024 pixels. Again I apologize if images or vulgarities aren't allowed here but this is a complete underhanded, bait and switch, unethical practice used by this casino.

Hi there Brianzz,

Thank you for the post.

Please note that we can indeed confirm that the offer in question did change to the current offer.

Also note that as per terms and conditions:

Grand Mondial will be the sole judge of the promotional offer and reserves the right, exercisable in its sole discretion to discontinue, change or cancel any promotional offer at any time for any reason whatsoever without notice.

In regards to the delayed crediting of these spins, we do apologize as you can surely understand that the number of crediting taking place are putting allot of strain on the systems, and thus the reason why it is taking a bit longer than what has been advertised.

To answer your question, the offer changed on July 8th and thus you qualified for the offer that is currently available seeing that your account was only registered yesterday.
Furthermore we can only apologize if the information that you gotten from the forums sites or affiliate sites were not correct or up-to-date but the casino site is up to date with the correct terms and conditions and cannot be held responsible for false advertisement from a third party site.
Please note that both the 22 Free spins as well as the 50 free spins been credited to your account and can only apologize should you feel that you were mislead in any sense.

We’ve always been a reputable casino and surely if there was any injustice, we will gladly rectify but it does come down to the player to ensure that you understood and read the terms and conditions before taking up on it.

If at any time you wish to discuss this matter further please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

Best regards
Mario
Casino representative

[vinylweatherman]

Hi there Brianzz,

Thank you for the post.

Please note that we can indeed confirm that the offer in question did change to the current offer.

Also note that as per terms and conditions:

Grand Mondial will be the sole judge of the promotional offer and reserves the right, exercisable in its sole discretion to discontinue, change or cancel any promotional offer at any time for any reason whatsoever without notice.

In regards to the delayed crediting of these spins, we do apologize as you can surely understand that the number of crediting taking place are putting allot of strain on the systems, and thus the reason why it is taking a bit longer than what has been advertised.

To answer your question, the offer changed on July 8th and thus you qualified for the offer that is currently available seeing that your account was only registered yesterday.
Furthermore we can only apologize if the information that you gotten from the forums sites or affiliate sites were not correct or up-to-date but the casino site is up to date with the correct terms and conditions and cannot be held responsible for false advertisement from a third party site.
Please note that both the 22 Free spins as well as the 50 free spins been credited to your account and can only apologize should you feel that you were mislead in any sense.

We’ve always been a reputable casino and surely if there was any injustice, we will gladly rectify but it does come down to the player to ensure that you understood and read the terms and conditions before taking up on it.

If at any time you wish to discuss this matter further please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

Best regards
Mario
Casino representative

This does not address the lies from CS, not only did they claim the terms were not changed, but they outlined how incredibly difficult this would be with "thousands of accounts" that would have to be changed.

According to voluntary and eCogra rules, your terms and offer pages should have been date stamped with the date of the last change. If this procedure had been followed, this heated argument would never have happened, as it would have been simple to see that the rules changed on 8th July.

More control needs to be exerted on the affiliates of the casino, they should be reprimanded for misleading players, as this only does damage to the brand.

Your explanation effectively admits that you did indeed do a "bait & switch" of sorts overnight between 7th and 8th July, with no advance notice. It does not matter that your terms cover this eventuality, this will not impress any potential new players that will think you are likely to do this again, which is clearly something you are prepared to do.

You also need to find out why this post appeared to come from the "affiliate manager", rather than simply an affiliate, there is a difference - an affiliate MANAGER speaks for the casino, and is an employee, but an affiliate is simply someone who makes money by attracting players through their links. If this was an affiliate impersonating the affiliate manager, then this is FRAUD, and the player community would expect an appropriate sanction to be taken to discourage this kind of unethical practice on the part of affilates in the future. The forum on which this post appeared could also take the action of banning this fake affiliate manager, as considerable damage has been done to both the Grand Mondial brand, and the credibility of that forum.

[Mario]

This does not address the lies from CS, not only did they claim the terms were not changed, but they outlined how incredibly difficult this would be with "thousands of accounts" that would have to be changed.

According to voluntary and eCogra rules, your terms and offer pages should have been date stamped with the date of the last change. If this procedure had been followed, this heated argument would never have happened, as it would have been simple to see that the rules changed on 8th July.

More control needs to be exerted on the affiliates of the casino, they should be reprimanded for misleading players, as this only does damage to the brand.

Your explanation effectively admits that you did indeed do a "bait & switch" of sorts overnight between 7th and 8th July, with no advance notice. It does not matter that your terms cover this eventuality, this will not impress any potential new players that will think you are likely to do this again, which is clearly something you are prepared to do.

You also need to find out why this post appeared to come from the "affiliate manager", rather than simply an affiliate, there is a difference - an affiliate MANAGER speaks for the casino, and is an employee, but an affiliate is simply someone who makes money by attracting players through their links. If this was an affiliate impersonating the affiliate manager, then this is FRAUD, and the player community would expect an appropriate sanction to be taken to discourage this kind of unethical practice on the part of affilates in the future. The forum on which this post appeared could also take the action of banning this fake affiliate manager, as considerable damage has been done to both the Grand Mondial brand, and the credibility of that forum.

Hi there Vinyl,

Thank you for your input as always.

Your comments been noted and we will take the matter further to ensure that support and our affiliates as well as managers are always aware of all changes that takes place as well as indication of site changes as well.
The agent in question is still really new, so we can excuse him should he not have known of the changes even thou it was relayed to them.
Best regards
Mario
Casino representative

[brianzz]

Thank you for the clarification Mario, if only CS had told me that I may have actually believed it, and thank you for your input also VWM. I've said since the beginning it's not the silly $17 it's all in the principals of the lies that the terms were never changed.

Just to settle the matter I opted out of the free spins on the promotion in question. It's similar to being invited to someones birthday party and being told to bring your own cake, drinks etc. but we'll supply a napkin.

Although it should be noted that I find it suspicious the terms were conveniently changed the day after the date of the cached copy of the original terms and conditions.

Edit:
Just logged into the casino and opted out of the cashpillar spins and found no free spins available on Tomb Raider. Great job.

Edit 2:
I spoke with live chat and they claimed I opted out, I informed them I opted out of the insulting Cashapillar spins and assured me the Tomb Raider spins were really credited this time and should show up in an hour. I wonder if they were really credited, as Mario said at 10:00 AM this morning or were they really really credited. And isn't is strange that these spins are automatic and CS can't credit them but they just did... hmmm.

[brianzz]

Never ending... after speaking with CS they "really" credited the 2nd deposit Tomb Raider spins that time but they never showed up but the Cashapillar spins showed up again so out of complete aggravation I played them thinking maybe the tomb raider would show up but they didn't, total win $1.36.

Maybe by this time next month the Tomb Raider spins will show up.

Are all Grand Mondial promotions such a cluster f...?

[brianzz]

Issue resolved... finally... Mods feel free to delete this thread

[Casinomeister]

Issue resolved... finally... Mods feel free to delete this thread

That's good - and kudos for the chat guy for keeping his cool under pressure.

[brianzz]

That's good - and kudos for the chat guy for keeping his cool under pressure.

and telling lies over and over.. he should be promoted to cashier so he can lie about withdrawls...

[pacers31]