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While there terms allow such actions, there is still the sanction of placing them either in the "not recommended" or "rogue" section for the widespread use of their "F U Clause". This is just the same as the Virtual group of RTG casinos have been doing, and again, no amount of intervention from Max or Bryan has managed to get players paid, however, the bad publicity of the rogue section seeks to cut their income in the hope that they will either go bust and make way for a more reputable outfit, or decide to change their ways.
The eCogra seal has been removed from their website now, and they are now "regulated" by IGC. This deception alone indicates they were willing to lie to convince new players they were eCogra members, and had access to an independent dispute resolution procedure. This is going along the same lines as with Reef Club. They start by swearing they are a separate entity, yet it seems they are now banning players who are known to have accounts at 888.com. Along with this, they are listed on a number of "bonus whoring" forums because of their Blackjack friendly (and thus Cassava bot friendly ) SUB.I have found reference to Casinomeister on some of these whoring sites, but no direct encouragement to run here with PABs. It may be that the admins of these sites are advising using PAB here by PM to affected members. Lucky Ace may be using the aff ID to track players coming in from these bonus whoring sites, which labels them as "high risk" even before they have played their first hand of Blackjack. The Cassava bot has been around for some time, and it is likely it can be detected by the operators in the same way that poker bots are detected. ANY player who has used this bot with the SUB has been fairly caught, it's an "occupational hazzard", and no doubt they have done well from it in the past. It is also possible that a large number of "innocent" players are being caught up in the crossfire, which is what is going to damage the reputation of Lucky Ace. Other sites are already adding this casino to their "casino cautions" list - it seems this non-payment, and use of the "FU Clause", is pretty widespread with them, even though they have only just opened.
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http://www.vinylweatherman.net The woefully out of date guide to Fruit Machines on the UK Motorway network. |
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Great post VWM, thanks for the leg work.
It's good to hear that the eCOGRA seal is off the Lucky Ace site but as mentioned, my recommendation to Bryan when he returns to the office later this week will be that LA be black-flagged for their recent actions.
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Useful links: Accredited Casinos & Poker ~ Casino Reps ~ Rogue-spotting ~ Warnings ~ Rogue Pit ~ Pitch a Bitch & Past PABs ~ Forum Rules NEW: Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ ~ Want 2 minutes of great advice for your next PAB? Read the PAB DO's and DON'Ts. |
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I have to agree with VWM, and to a certain extent Max too.
Using the catch-all (or FU) clause indiscriminately as appears to be the case here to avoid paying players who have otherwise complied with promo T&Cs and have not been previously black-listed is definitely rogue behaviour that merits a rogue listing. It is simply not conducting business with integrity imo, and by not engaging with advocates like Max, the 888.com people are refusing to justify and give grounds for their Luckyace decisions in each case, regardless of what their "we can do whatever we like" clauses say. It's just too easy for a dishonest operator to make a unilateral judgement that a winning player has been guilty of so-called bonus abuse and then confiscate his winnings and promised bonuses without further explanation. The return of a deposit may to some extent ameliorate the wrongdoing, but it certainly doesn't excuse it in my view. Something is badly wrong here - there are way too many complaints from diverse locations and too little explanation from 888.com - even in confidence to Max - for comfort. You don't get this sort of thing happening at reputable white labelers like St Minver (as one example) afaik. The false use of the eCOGRA seal is another negative indicator (afraid I have no confidence in the IGC being any use here) This is also setting a perilous precedent for white labeled operations, whereby any operator who has perhaps miscalculated a promo or is for some other reason feeling too much pain from a misguided promo offer can merely roll out the FU clause and duck both bonus and win obligations at will. I don't think the FU clause should be allowed to stand between 888.com/Luckyace and a blacklisting if this issue is not addressed in a more communicative fashion by 888.com. And Max is absolutely right - players need to take a very close look at this affair before giving any business to Luckyace.
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jetset |
| The Following User Says Thank You to jetset For This Useful Post: | ||
RobWin (4th February 2008) | ||
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If a casino interpets the rules in an unfair way, that should be enough grounds for a complaint. And we are not talking just a few players here, 100s would be my guess. I have over 20 on my site alone. Pretty good business plan, if the player loses great, if the player wins just return their deposit. On such a widespread scale, the word fraud springs to mind. |
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Your profile has "none" for webmastered sites. It is possible that your 20 players are having problems due to following the recommendations on your site, not forgetting that your aff ID can be used by Lucky Ace to detect the players you are sending to them. If your site is still promoting them, we have to ask why, since you clearly believe they are frauds. The other bonus whoring sites seem to be sitting on the fence, both promoting the SUB with a "get it while you can" attitude, but at the same time discussing the problems of non-payment.
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http://www.vinylweatherman.net The woefully out of date guide to Fruit Machines on the UK Motorway network. |
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I have pmd you the details of the site that I am from. Not alowed to mention rival sites here.
Surely the can be no question now that these guys are frauds. I mean how much more blatent do you want. Check out the other forums, wherever you go, same story. Im struggling to remember a case as bad as this |
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LATER: What follows is the original text of this post. As mentioned above I was barking up the wrong tree. Please see this post for the new improved take on this issue.
--------------- Quote:
__________________
Useful links: Accredited Casinos & Poker ~ Casino Reps ~ Rogue-spotting ~ Warnings ~ Rogue Pit ~ Pitch a Bitch & Past PABs ~ Forum Rules NEW: Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ ~ Want 2 minutes of great advice for your next PAB? Read the PAB DO's and DON'Ts. Last edited by maxd; 5th February 2008 at 01:07 AM. |
| The Following User Says Thank You to maxd For This Useful Post: | ||
lots0 (4th February 2008) | ||
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As it happens I've been working on this LuckyAce thing for over a week now and have only recently made up my mind about what is and isn't going on here. Yes, sometimes it does take some of us a little time to come to conclusions what with the evidence gathering and due diligence and all, unlike yourself who seems to perform great leaps of conclusion jumping with absolutely no evidence or grounds whatsoever. Still waiting for that apology by the way. quote What you talking about Max, Yes I knew what was going on the first day when the "We ain't paying you because you won" emails started being sent out Then again I may have more experience of these matters than yourself. Seen it all before sadly. I am pleased that you will be taking some action, and will be even more impressed, should that action result in those players affected receiving their confiscated winnings. That really should be the main aim, dont you agree? |
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LATER: What follows is the original text of this post. As mentioned above I was barking up the wrong tree. Please see this post for the new improved take on this issue.
--------------- Quote:
__________________
Useful links: Accredited Casinos & Poker ~ Casino Reps ~ Rogue-spotting ~ Warnings ~ Rogue Pit ~ Pitch a Bitch & Past PABs ~ Forum Rules NEW: Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ ~ Want 2 minutes of great advice for your next PAB? Read the PAB DO's and DON'Ts. Last edited by maxd; 5th February 2008 at 01:08 AM. |
| The Following User Says Thank You to maxd For This Useful Post: | ||
lots0 (4th February 2008) | ||
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