question about BPU

[Sassy1]

Sissy, have things changed regarding 123 Bingo since NavyMom posted this?

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...agement-2.html

Sites that disabled chat or accounts when complaints are filed against them either at their own site or publicly in another forum type site such as BPU, cashouts are requested and stalled with one excuse after another by the site, multiple accounts that are inadvertently opened at a sister site, or if they are members of sites such as BPU and publicly post in them, even if the posts are not complaints against the bingo site or if they are merely registered at those sites without posting anything. Just mentioning their name or just registering using the same username you use at the bingo site is enough.

AlphaBingo - being a member at BPU
BingoZest - now in the UK and sister to Alpha - being a member of BPU or accused of multiple accounts
BingoFest - sister site to Alpha and BingoZest
BingoSky - being a member at BPU
123Bingo - sister site to BingoIsUs and BingoKnights - being a member at BPU and complaining

The two most recent reviews of 123 at whichbingo.com don't sound too great, and I personally had problems in the past with 123Bingo. Before whichbingo.com revamped, there were dozens of bad reviews of 123bingo:

http://www.whichbingo.com/bingo-game-reviews/site131/

[Sissy]

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...agement-2.html

That was not my post, nor my information Sassy. Maybe if you direct that question to NavyMom, she can answer it for you.

The two most recent reviews of 123 at whichbingo.com don't sound too great, and I personally had problems in the past with 123Bingo. Before whichbingo.com revamped, there were dozens of bad reviews of 123bingo:

http://www.whichbingo.com/bingo-game-reviews/site131/

I followed your link and those two posts, one in January and one in February 2008 and no, neither was favorable. I believe both were posted anonymously which is neither here nor there. I do not have a clue about what happened with you or your problems at 123Bingo. We work only with documentation ( emails, trouble tickets, account information I have seen for myself and screenshoot etc) from players and sites. Ones word isn't enough, there has to be proof of allegations.

I do know that I have a working relationship with David, the manager of 123Bingo. If we get player complaints he is accomodating in every way to provide us with as much information as we require to come to a final determination.

It hasn't always been this way, so I would have to answer your question "have things changed at 123bingo" with a definite yes they have.
Through discussions and handling things in a businesslike manner issues can be resolved and relationships established to further open communications between sites and players.

Thanks for asking Sassy. It is nice to be able to report something good about a bingo site who has begun to care about their players and are intent on doing what they can to make those players happy. Maybe the day will come when we can speak highly of all of them .

Have a great day!!

[Sassy1]

Sissy, the reason I addressed my question to you instead of to NavyMom is because you are the one who came here to say you thought they were now a good site. Also, from all I've seen at BPU, NavyMom appears to be an active and well-respected member, so I thought it strange that if she were treated poorly there (banned for being a member of BPU and complaining about the site), that you would be cautious of recommending a site that would treat a valued member that way. Also, if they are a sister site to BingoIsUs and BingoKnights, as she stated, that your concern would be even greater.

As far as my experience with the site, there were a lot of problems that led myself, and a lot of roomies, to leaving the site.

All of the chat hosts and staff were from India. Many of them were kind and intelligent individuals, but there were some communication issues. While their English was pretty good, many things were misinterpreted. Most of the chat hosts were young men who spent most of their time hosting, flirting with women who, unfortunately, acted like dogs in heat. The chat hosts shared emails with anyone who wanted them, and would send pictures of themselves to these women who would come back on and spend even more time flirting with the cute, young men instead of paying attention to the needs of the roomies.

They were constantly taking long breaks for teas, prayers and meals. They'd announce they were going on a break for 15 minutes and come back 45 minutes later, including those in 'live chat' and those in accounting working on trouble tickets. One may be running low on funds and wishing for chat games to earn bonus bucks, but were out of luck for those long breaks. Or, one may have just made a deposit and since the bonuses weren't automatic, have to wait until a trouble ticket got answered to credit your account, after the long breaks.

There were chat games involving side games (slot machines). Unsavvy bingo only players would be encouraged to play those little chat game tournaments in which they were offered 25 bbs if they spun the most features to pop up in the slots. Since you could play pennies, it seemed like a smart decision to participate. I can't tell you how many of those individuals went to cash out a day or two later and found out that because they played slots, their play through requirements weren't met because there were now attached a 15 times play through. When the bonuses they got for their deposits (usually 300 - 400%) were factored in, there was a slim chance they could meet the cash out requirements by playing longer. While it is true they should have read the 'terms,' many didn't, for one reason or another. It's one thing if someone chooses to play slots on their own and didn't read the rules, and it's another to be encouraged by chat hosts to venture out of their comfort zone (bingo), to earn bbs by trying the slots. I felt it was entrapment.

Then there were other oddities like roomies becoming discouraged because they had made many deposits and not won any games, to announce their displeasure. Many roomies figured out that if they had been on a losing streak, if they announced in chat that they just made their last deposit and if they don't win a game or two, they are gone, the very next bingo game or two, that person would win.

The jackpots were virtually impossible to win because the numbers of balls one needed to jackpot, were set so one couldn't win a jackpot. Have you ever seen anyone win a blackout in 50 numbers? During my time there, I saw one jackpot won. That person's win and picture were on the website for at least a year. I think that was because that was the only jackpot won in a year.

Also, for a period after Neteller shut down, the staff of 123 disappeared off the face of the earth. They left the site up and people somehow managed to deposit (so there must have been at least one person there processing payments through), but trouble tickets went unanswered and chat hosts were no longer online and 'live chat' was disabled. I never received a single email from the site saying they were shutting down or going out of business or experiencing difficulties. If they weren't going to 'work the site,' they should have taken it off-line so people couldn't still log on and deposit. I played at numerous sites that went out-of-business due to Neteller. Every single one emailed members to inform them. Not 123!

I understand your pleasure and excitement that a manager of the site addresses concerns at your board, but I don't think that is a reason to support or recommend a site. There have been a couple of managers from Virtual Casinos who have addressed concerns at numerous sites and appeared available to assist disgruntled players, but I highly doubt that anyone at any of the boards they have been active at, would recommend to any of their members that they continue to play there or deposit there. I think that situation is similar to this situation. I would instead like to see that you are letting people know that there are some lines of communication open, but to proceed with caution; if only for the reason that one of your most active and respected members has had problems there.

I know I have personally talked to staff at one site that BPU was critiquing and asked why they didn't come to BPU to address BPU's concerns personally. They felt like it was a 'no win situation' that nothing they would say would change the minds of your members and staff, and they weren't going to subject themselves to the 'attack mode' of the staff and members of BPU. So, just because one or two sites come to your site to address concerns, doesn't make other sites bad because they don't send representatives, and doesn't make the bad sites good because they send representatives.

[Sissy]

WOW! Where do I begin.

Many of your statements contained "were". This, to me, means that during your time playing there you are stating your observations of what was happening at the time. I am always open to change and I see it happening at several sites. I like to think that is in response to their players and trying to retain a good player base.

I have been monitoring 123Bingo very often, for different periods of time and at different times of day, as I do any site public issues are raised about. I do not take my job lightly. I have and still do make mistakes and would be sub human if I didn't.

Many have found out and attempted to spread the word that 123 and BingoKnights are owned by the same company but managed by two different individuals. I have never ascertained that 123 was connected to BingoIsUs. There were allegations but no proof brought forward.

As a matter of fact, there is proof that Terry Barnes, CEO of BingLotto was instrumental in setting up BingoIsUs who has disappeared from Cyber space.

As far as I can tell at the present time, all of the chat hosts are female and speak EXCELLENT English. I do not know where they are from or any specifics, I can only tell you what I have seen.

Then there were other oddities like roomies becoming discouraged because they had made many deposits and not won any games, to announce their displeasure. Many roomies figured out that if they had been on a losing streak, if they announced in chat that they just made their last deposit and if they don't win a game or two, they are gone, the very next bingo game or two, that person would win.

Honestly Sassy, I am not saying that this is isn't odd to me. I see it the same as you do. Bottom line is, whether I think it is "set up" or not doesn't seem to matter because I have no proof. I have been on that badwagon for a LONG time. May I ask you this.... have you ever been to a site where you have NOT seen this very thing? That doesn't make one right and one wrong and it most certainly doesn't make me "accept " it. You and I both know what happens, but proving it is another thing. But I am not tired of trying yet, are you?

I won't restrict advice to players to "proceed with caution" at just one site... that is my advice to them for ANY site. I don't "promote" any sites Sassy. I am not an affiliate. I try to help players with my observations and knowlege I have obtained through many many hours of research.

There are changes happening, at a snails pace, but happening in many online bingo sites. With utmost respect, things that "were" may not be how things "are" now . I am always open to see the good and the bad in any online bingo site. I do not believe one will EVER come up with rules I will approve of (for my own part only) or agree with, so I play rarely if at all any more.

As far as your talking to any site about their business with me, that is between you and them. I am not here representing anyone, although what I say does reflect on where I work. I am here as a common member just like you. Sites will respond or they won't. Their call, but I can tell you it is alot easier to believe that some good might happen at a site willing to communicate, than at one who won't. Just my opinion.

Regards...

[Sassy1]

Many of your statements contained "were". This, to me, means that during your time playing there you are stating your observations of what was happening at the time. I am always open to change and I see it happening at several sites. I like to think that is in response to their players and trying to retain a good player base.

I would have to answer your question "have things changed at 123bingo" with a definite yes they have. Through discussions and handling things in a businesslike manner issues can be resolved and relationships established to further open communications between sites and players.

It's unfortunate that there doesn't seem to be consistency at BPU regarding your statements I quoted in this post. IF, in fact, BPU were open to change and believed that through businesslike manners issues can be resolved and relationships be established to further open communication between sites and players, there wouldn't be the bad memories and battle wounds that myself and perky34b experienced when we attempted to show BPU that some of the sites up for discussion there (in an extremely negative and seemingly unswayable way) were sites that we had good experiences at that we felt were getting a bad rap that maybe wasn't deserved. Had the same open-mindedness being shown to 123 Bingo been given to the sites we were attempting to show the other side of, there might not be any bad feelings today, on anyones' part. My views of BPU are that if BPU declares a site bad, anyone who logs on to debate that issue becomes a BPU enemy. Whereas, I'm telling you of my bad experiences at a site and it's all roses and sunshine because they came to BPU to answer player issues and are now a BPU 'friend', so its not fair to badmouth them.

[Sissy]

I surrender! I do not come here as BPU. And for the record, I have no hard feelings toward anyone. It is not personal with me.

I just want to be effective concerning what is and will happen in the online bingo industry as I cannot perform miracles and change what was or has happened.

Things change. Opinions change. Players change. Sites change. I am open to change from anyone at any time.

And for the record also, I have deep scars the same as you but they have healed and I have let them go. Again I cannot change what HAS happened, only what will concerning my own actions.

We can make our own choices to either hold grudges, or get over it. I am over it. Have a great day

Had the same open-mindedness being shown to 123 Bingo been given to the sites we were attempting to show the other side of, there might not be any bad feelings today, on anyones' part.

Had these sites taken the time to respond to attemtped communications, privately or publicly, I can't speak for BPU as we are a group, but I can tell you that I would be the first up to the plate with an open mind. I WANT to work with them. But working WITH takes two parties. I communicated, they didn't.

This is the end of any discussions for me about BPU. I come here as a member, in good standing I hope. I come here as Sissy. I have thoughts and ideas and opinions that are mine alone and are not connected with anything but how I feel. I request that you see me as just that and allow me to be myself without my choice of job being involved. BPU business has a place and it is not here.
Thanks for understanding.

[Sassy1]

I surrender! I do not come here as BPU. And for the record, I have no hard feelings toward anyone. It is not personal with me

I request that you see me as just that and allow me to be myself without my choice of job being involved. BPU business has a place and it is not here.

Sissy, I respect and appreciate a lot of what you said in your last post, but on this one issue (that you don't come here as BPU), I beg to differ.

A member here asked if anyone knew anything about 123 Bingo. Some of us gave our opinions. Then you came on here and said the following:

They have had some ups and downs in the past, but seem to running a good site. David, the manager, is always quick to work with BPU if we have issues that come to us concerning his site. I have done some monitoring of 123Bingo and they have some really good jackpots. All I know for fact is what I see and read, but on a trial run I guess 123 would be as good as any to try out.

They also have a cashback perk that I have never seen before at any site. If you spend all of your deposit and bonuses, you simply go to live help and ask for "cashback" and they will put back the amount you deposited in you account as a cash balance to play on.

I hear they are adding new games etc. As with any bingo site, read the rules and ask all of your questions BEFORE you deposit . Good luck should you decide to try it Byand!!

To me, you were representing BPU with those comments. In fact, I was concerned that he might try the place out based on your recommendations because you are from BPU, a bingo watchdog site, and that he might not give the same weight to concerns NOT to play there, since I'm just a member here and not coming from a watchdog site.

Here's another example:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post234706

We hope to make some contact with someone from there soon. We have been exchanging emails with another site who is showing some willingness to try to get this settled and have the operators of BingoIsUs pay the people they owe. Will keep updates posted when/if we do finally hear something

Who's 'we?'

So, I think if you don't want to be associated here with BPU, you need to stop mentioning BPU?

[dynamitewoman]

Quote from sassy:
It's unfortunate that there doesn't seem to be consistency at BPU regarding your statements I quoted in this post. IF, in fact, BPU were open to change and believed that through businesslike manners issues can be resolved and relationships be established to further open communication between sites and players, there wouldn't be the bad memories and battle wounds that myself and perky34b experienced when we attempted to show BPU that some of the sites up for discussion there (in an extremely negative and seemingly unswayable way) were sites that we had good experiences at that we felt were getting a bad rap that maybe wasn't deserved
************************************************** *******Speaking for myself I think it great that some players can have enjoyable experiences at sites even though others can not share that point of view. it is a matter of personal discretion, choice and perceptions.
I can say however, that when there are a group of players that have documented discrepancies and issues surrounding a site, there is some credibility existing that something may be amiss. When research indicates that a site is not willing to communicate effectively with the depositing player or a third party entity with the objective of reaching a resolution, mediation and negotiations become moot and it would indeed be ill advised to recommend such a site, regardless of contrary claims.
Some of the most notoriously deviated and underhanded sites still have players that want to attest to their "fairness" and player friendly ambience, and to that I say....Good for you that you have not fallen under their axe and are enjoying your experience, but please do not attempt to negate the documented and proven trials that have befallen others who have regretfully trusted a sites marketing ploys and presentations.
What does it matter if a hundred people have no problems and one does that has been royally screwed? Should that person be dismissed or brushed off with a " too bad, but your in the minority so eat it and be gone? What I am saying that it is the individual that should be the concern and not the overall reputation of a site that ultimately determines a step into the truth. Every site has the option of communication devices and player friendly methods to acquire and keep depositing players, and sometimes that fails for one reason or another and there has to be recourse for the individual. "They have a wonderful reputation, they couldn't have cheated you" is just not enough. Research through observation,facts and documented evidence is more closely allied with the truth of any situation. Sites that get a "bad rap" that MAYBE wasnt deserved, is just as valueless and invalid as saying MAYBE they cheated a player.
Confronting a player(s) that has proven to have been cheated and fouled by a site, and you are armed with nothing more than mere heresay and personal experience is without merit and a bit tactless.
As it has been said, the proof is in the pudding and anyone that wishes to is welcome and invited to submit actual evidence that refutes a negative claim regarding any site that extends past the "opinion" level.
Opinions are welcome, but as expressions of personal discretion and assessment only and may have little or nothing to do with reality. Just because we beleive something does not make it true!

[Sassy1]

I can say however, that when there are a group of players that have documented discrepancies and issues surrounding a site, there is some credibility existing that something may be amiss.

Documented discrepancies? Are you talking about the two ‘regular’ BPU members who were allowed to speculate as to who were house players at the site that I was defending, even down to naming names? Those same two ‘regular' BPU members who continued to play at the site, beg players for ‘gifts,’ and play the free games, while at the same time posting at BPU crucifying the site? One even created two usernames at BPU pretending to be two different people with bad experiences at the bingo site, and when some of the members from the bingo site came to BPU to say they weren’t house players and that they knew that the two usernames posting at BPU were the same person, nothing was done or said by BPU staff to chastise that person publicly, or confirm that fact, though later, when that same loyal ‘BPU regular’ badmouthed you guys to your face, it came out that you all knew all along that the ‘BPU regular’ had posted with those two different usernames.

When research indicates that a site is not willing to communicate effectively with the depositing player or a third party entity with the objective of reaching a resolution, mediation and negotiations become moot and it would indeed be ill advised to recommend such a site, regardless of contrary claims.

You hit on the key problem at BPU. Most of the staff there comes off as unbending and as brash as Reverend Al Sharpton. Al Sharpton isn’t always wrong about issues, but his methods and delivery are the problem. It takes a really strong debater to be able to handle an interview with that man. Have you ever seen him being interviewed by Bill O’Reilly? O’Reilly will point out some faults in Sharpton’s theories, but rather than calmly sit back and say, ‘you know Bill, you might have a point,’ the man is so bull-headed, out-spoken, and unswayable, he’ll fight to the death for his cause, even if he is wrong or looks like a fool. What site wants to come to BPU to defend their site and face three Al Sharptons?

Some of the most notoriously deviated and underhanded sites still have players that want to attest to their "fairness" and player friendly ambience, and to that I say....Good for you that you have not fallen under their axe and are enjoying your experience, but please do not attempt to negate the documented and proven trials that have befallen others who have regretfully trusted a sites marketing ploys and presentations.

What documented and proven trials? One or more of you logging on “to watch?” Players like your two loyal and regular members who posts lists of who they think are house players? The BPU owner coming on and declaring me a staff member at the site I defended because I wrote something very similar to what Sissy wrote here about 123 Bingo?

They have had some ups and downs in the past, but seem to running a good site. David, the manager, is always quick to work with BPU if we have issues that come to us concerning his site. I have done some monitoring of 123Bingo and they have some really good jackpots. All I know for fact is what I see and read, but on a trial run I guess 123 would be as good as any to try out .

They also have a cashback perk that I have never seen before at any site. If you spend all of your deposit and bonuses, you simply go to live help and ask for "cashback" and they will put back the amount you deposited in you account as a cash balance to play on.

I hear they are adding new games etc.

That post is so similar to the ones I wrote about my favorite bingo site and the headline and poll still exists at BPU saying I am management of the bingo site I defended and was there doing damage control. Good research, documentation and proven trials! Yup-yup!

As it has been said, the proof is in the pudding and anyone that wishes to is welcome and invited to submit actual evidence that refutes a negative claim regarding any site that extends past the "opinion" level.

Yup, yup, dash right over there y’all and submit your evidence that refutes negative claims over there. Just be prepared to get attacked and beat up, and while you have to show actual evidence, the ‘regulars’ are allowed to speculate and post their speculations, and their posts don't extend past the 'opinion' level, but yours better!

I would be thrilled if BPU, who has (or had) good intentions, were an effective bingo watchdog site. It's my opinion, if that were to occur, some changes in methods and tactics (mostly how people are treated), needs to take place. If that were to happen, I would be your cheerleader instead of a disgruntled and banned member. I'll bet others who had similar experiences as I had, like perky34b, would be cheerleaders also.

[dynamitewoman]

Quote:Sassy

Documented discrepancies? Are you talking about the two ‘regular’ BPU members who were allowed to speculate as to who were house players at the site that I was defending, even down to naming names?
************************************************** ****
Are you asking a question or making a declaration about my meaning or intent?
As far as players being "allowed" to speculate about houseplayers..The remarks and speculations are merely that and nothing more. It is strongly suggested that personal contrivances and beefs do not get publicly posted to deter name calling and mud slinging tactics.That IS a suggestion from BPU and I agree with it, I did not mandate it, but I do subscribe to it as a member of BPU and the human race.
All people are most definitely allowed to post opinions, and unfortunately when they have come from a situation that has caused some stress and confusions, they are influenced by immediate passions. Just as those on the other side of the fence also become passionate about their thoughts.
I was not talking about any particular situation, as you infer, but rather to the genre of complaints that have been verified with the only proof available on the internet in these circumstances, to wit, screenshots, communications with site support, etc.

Sassy said:
though later, when that same loyal ‘BPU regular’ badmouthed you guys to your face, it came out that you all knew all along that the ‘BPU regular’ had posted with those two different usernames.

"It came out that you all knew? How did that occur? And How is it that you are in possession of my accumulated knowledge and information? You are making an assumption that I personally knew that..arent you? Because I can tell you here and now I did not know. It is difficult to separate the person from the place perhaps, but easier to draw conclusions that are in error.It
When you say things like "you said" referring to a group or body of people,it is erroneous unless that person has clearly stated they are speaking as a representative of that group or acting as a spokesperson.
Just because I volunteer at a site does not diminish my rights as a person to speak my mind or retain the right to be a singular entity.
When you post your thoughts are you speaking for yourself or at the behest of the site that you wish to defend? Are you going to gain anything by defending the site or are you just doing what you think is right as a loyal member? Allow me, and others the same privelige to act as a person with separate thoughts and ideas.

Sassy said:
What site wants to come to BPU to defend their site and face three Al Sharptons?
*****************
In the short time I have been associated with a watchdog group, I have seen several instances (at least) where sites have clearly attempted to defraud players, and if you wish to say that is my opinion, you may. But a site owner or operator knows what their agenda is, and if it is an honest, forthright one, they have no reason to be fearful or hide behind the kind of thinking that excuses their deceptions and trickery. If someone is truthful and has nothing to hide, confrontation should be welcomed as an avenue to promote a site as well as clear up any misunderstandings or confusions.The "big Bad Wolf" theory is effective only if you are a juicy hog.

If you wish to continue looking for reasons to bash, intimidate or speak of a site with distaste for your own personal reasons, I shall consider that venting
and take it NOT personally, but I will not participate in your cleansing exercise.