How does posting affect the PAB process?

[rouletteguy]

other than the obvious negative publicity for the casino and in turn creating a hostile rep (the damage has already been done) are there other ways posting affects a PAB that are not so obvious?

[jelsmith]

Yes Max will kill it and it will go no further.

[jod5413]

A major side effect of posting about PABs is that every bored member (best description I could use without being Snarky) uses the PAB thread to excite "The Herd". People become uncivil to each other. People start thinking they have the right and the intelligence(?) to piss on other people, even the ones that are helping them to get their winnings from a casino.

Such a sight to see, a long thread about a PAB. Brings out the "best" of the worst.

[jetset]

In a more practical sense, posting can often cloud the investigation, and certainly doesn't encourage the casino to enter into or cooperate in a mediation process with Max. It can also entrench positions, making it difficult to move forward to a successful conclusion.

Trying to negotiate a solution with the other side definitely isn't helped by the aggrieved player slashing and burning on the forums, sometimes when negotiations have reached a sensitive stage.

If I submitted a PAB I would abide by the rules, because I would want to give Max as much help from my side as I could to get what was due to me.

[maxd]

other than the obvious negative publicity for the casino and in turn creating a hostile rep (the damage has already been done) are there other ways posting affects a PAB that are not so obvious?

Good question. In general please see the following in the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ:

Q: I have already, or would like to, post about my complaint on the message boards. Is that a good idea?

A: No, it is not a good idea. A PAB is a private negotiation process and it works because it gives the casino people the best possible opportunity to resolve your issue calmly and fairly in talks with professional industry people without the burden of external pressures or influence.

A message posted on the boards is quite the opposite: it creates a very public public-relations issue that the casino people generally feel forced to contain, or ignore, as best they can.

Because of the pressures involved a forum post on a given issue will usually derail any PABs that are in progress on that issue, and this is why we advise that forum posts be withheld until the PAB process has had a chance to run it's course.

We reserve the right to discard any PAB that where that same issue has been posted to the boards. This relates to threads started by, or contributions to other threads by, the person who filed the PAB. This applies equally to posts made before or after the PAB was filed.

In other words in the case where the material was posted before the PAB was filed we will determine whether those posts would damage or thwart the PAB process before we decide if we will proceed with the PAB. In the case where the material was posted after the PAB was filed there is a very high probability that we will suspend or discard the PAB at that point.

Once we indicate that we are finished with a PAB the person who filed it is free to post about the issue as they see fit (all the usual Casinomeister Forum Rules are applicable).

In other words:

• If the PAB is handled offline, without the complications of a forum post, it is usually a relatively calm and constructive process. Under these circumstances the focus is on the issue and getting results: this is good and usually results in the best possible outcome for the complainant.
  
• If the PAB is handled while there is a discussion about it on the forums it is usually a hostile, tense and unproductive process. Here the focus is on fire-fighting and damage control: information is not freely exchanged and results for the complainant are usually minimal, meaning the casino (or whomever) does what they feel they absolutely must in order to extricate themselves from the situation and not a jot more. There are also quite likely to be long-term repercussions for the complainant (black-listing, etc).

From the complainant's point of view it makes absolutely no sense to sabotage an ongoing PAB with a forum post because:

• they (pretty much) automatically diminish their potential returns by posting, and
• they can post the very same thing __after__ the PAB has run it's course if that's what they want to do.

In spite of how satisfying it may be to some people to see a big, out-in-the-open, tussle with the casino on the forums regarding a given player issue it is seldom the most productive way to do things in the long run. The trouble here is that people generally think that if they are involved then they are helping. This is often not the case. It's rather like having your friends and extended family in your bedroom during an intimate moment: doubtless they are wonderful people but it's not really the time and place for their input, generally speaking.

I'm aware that when a player has an issue with a casino it often feels as if they are in trouble and it would be a good time to have your forum buddies there to help you out. By all means, if you are quite sure that all other avenues are closed to you then the forum approach may be ideal. However issues are usually not that far gone, there's often an amazing amount of wiggle room to negotiate things before something irreversible (like a forum fight) restricts people's options and changes the game.

And last but not least there is the "moving target" issue: if the PAB is an exchange between me/Bryan, the complainant and the casino peeps then we can keep track of what's going on and manage the big picture. If you drag it out onto the forums anything can happen, most of it bad, and without notice. That seriously impairs our ability to manage the complaint process, which is why we will often decline to do so under these circumstances.

Hopefully that answers your question. If there are other things you'd like to know about the process, or clarifications of the above, feel free to ask.

[maxd]

... Max will kill it and it will go no further.

I thought I should also mention that these are Casinomeister policies not "Max" policies. I do the grunt work on many of the PABs we receive and I've certainly had some input on how we do things but all of this is done under Bryan's supervision. At the end of the day he's still the boss and is active in the Pitch-A-Bitch process.

[Casinomeister]

I thought I should also mention that these are Casinomeister policies not "Max" policies. I do the grunt work on many of the PABs we receive and I've certainly had some input on how we do things but all of this is done under Bryan's supervision. At the end of the day he's still the boss and is active in the Pitch-A-Bitch process.

I should also mention that exceptions are made - sometimes we just change our minds and take on something that has been beaten up already on the message boards.

If we feel that a player still has a chance, or that this is rogue material, we'll usually take it on. Depends on my mood.