Unusual suck out patterns

[BestHandAgain]

I have been playing Betfair poker for a number of years,regularly playing 3 or 4 tournaments of texas no limit holdem a day.
I regularly make the money and have won a small tournament,but find myself questioning the fairness and integrity of the software.
Two things regarding this have been pointed out recently,first it is impossible to have a random generator,and second,a computer software programmer had discovered at least one of the sites was not playing all the possible combinations,which would explain some of these nigh impossible suck outs.
I also watch some of the tournaments and see the same thing happening to other players.
A classic example happened to me tonight,im on the big blind(1600),everyone folds,the big stack goes all in,i call with AA,last 6400 chips,he turns over 34,flops j56,turns a 7,rivers a 10,big stack hits the straight.
THis is not an isolated example,,in fact i would say 99% of the times im in that situation,i lose,and so do others.
And if by some miracle you get past that stage,you get offered decent starting cards the very next hand to tempt you to play,and get sucked out there.
Another classic example,short stack AA,big stack calls with A7,4 of the same suit flop to hit the big stacks ace,giving him the flush.
Now anyone knowing percentages,knows this is not possible,it just doesnt way up.
I challenge anyone to watch betfair and see how the short stacks get bad beated almost every time and get sucked out,on some occasions 2 getting blown out.
This particularly applying when the bubble is in sight.
The hard thing to swallow here,is the ridiculous cards you get called with by the big stack,almost like they know they cant lose.
So without suggesting any corrupt activity on behalf of the poker room,something is obviously not right and needs looking into.
Good starting hands simply cannot get beaten on such a regular basis just because your on the short stack,impossible.

[rockycatt]

Its going on every were tilt ,stars you name it , how in the world does a guy call a all in with a ridiculous hand as you described

[BestHandAgain]

Exactly,i played tilt and after winning $1750,i must have experienced bad beats like this on over 20 consecutive occasions.
I left Tilt winning $750,simply had enough,im not an idiot,i know the odds,and i know if you 80% to win hands and get sucked out that many times consecutively,then you know somethings up.
As i speak,ive been shafted again tonight,best hand yet again,all in qq,admittedly i get called by the bigger stacks jj,naturally he hits the full house.
Worst hand wins almost every single time for the big stack,its totally unreal.
I was surprised to see betfairs casino on the dodgepot list,i thought they were a well run outfit.
But i wouldnt be at all surprised to see their poker room appear on places not to play very soon.
Theres hardly any skill at all involved,its suck out after suck out,its almost like the softwares preset to suck out short stacks at certain stages so the tournament doesnt go on to long.
Its very very fishy,and somethings seriously flawed with their software,im getting the exact same scenarios every day.
You may say if thats happening,why do you call,you must know whats coming?that is true,im almost expecting it,but what can you do.
I made a 1600 raise,the guy went all in,i had to call for my last 3400 chips in a heads up.
The worst thing is i make the right call more than 90% of the time,but get sucked out every time.

[BestHandAgain]

Just to continue the thread of incredible flops and suck outs.
Betfair texas nlh again,3 hearts flopped,a,q and 4,4 players betting in to the pot,turns 6d,rivers jc,all 4 go all in.
All four players show a heart flush!!!!!!!has anyone ever seen this on a 10 seater table?

[johnsteed]

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BetFair (IMO) seems to be a tough place to make any regular profit. I didn't have much luck at Bet365 either. Cake Poker is dried up (which is too bad as I'm about 2 years too late). I never really cared much for any of the PrimaPoker sites, and I likely never will. Really, the 2 best options are FullTilt and PokerStars. While I really like both of these sites, I can't disagree that the cards have some pretty funky outcomes (which is pretty much true at EVERY poker site out there).



I pretty much gave up playing NLHE because:


a) there are too many knowledgeable players at every stake (too many training sites/books out there)


b) there are too many donks who get lucky


c) and there's not much in between


d) despite only playing with a quality starting hand (solid hand range), all too often I'm forced to play All-In shoves at any stage/level of any MTT or S&G tournament (where I get sucked-out on all too often)



So, I switched to PLO Hi/Lo and Omaha Hi/Lo (S&G and MTT), which is oh-so-much better. The field is generally not as knowledgeable, even the better players tend to play loose hand ranges (which they shouldn't be playing with), and I find that it's easier to get control of the table in certain spots. Most importantly, understanding when to not play hands (generally nothing within the first 15-20 minutes unless it's something like A-A-K-2), being ultra patient (knowing how to play the short stack... generally shoving with 3 BBs when a semi-quality hand comes), not 'just' patient, but twice as patient as one thinks one needs to be, and most importantly knowing how much to bet at every stage of a tournament, should help anyone become a profit player long-term.



My advice (not that anyone was asking for it) is to play the 'other' poker games out there (eg. Omaha, 2-7, Razz, Badugi, 7-card stud, etc.), get really good at them, study them to death, and provided that you're disciplined enough, start making a profit. Despite what tons of people say, I think there are much softer games out there than NLHE. I don't recommend 'turbo' anymore either, although I don't mind it so much in heads up play.



In the future, I suppose I'll play the larger field NLHE tournaments, but I'm pretty much done grinding all of the S&G (6/9/18/27/45 seat tournaments), DoN (never easy), and ultra-boring HU NLHE games. The 180/$2 are still relatively fun though.



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If I could give an example of questionable play, I'd think back to a 180-seat MTT ($2) I was playing at PS several months ago. The tournament was down to roughly 30 players, and I was 4th in chips, the blinds were relatively high, and I pushed with A-A. The player in the small blind calls my All-In, and he/she had a 3-7 o/s (?!!), and of course, flopped a straight.



Those things happen of course, but this person was 3rd in tournament chips, and likely didn't get there by playing with such a crappy range of hands. So why get that deep into a tournament (probably at the 1 hour 20 minute mark by that point), and call with 3-7 o/s? Some people might have to go somewhere, but at least they'd wait for an ace or something... not 3-7 o/s. Why call a shove in that spot?



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[BestHandAgain]

Thanks for that,youve actually highlighted something else i was going to mention.
Highly dubious calls when players dont need to make them,an example of which happened to me tonight.
I was in the final 7 tonight(6 make the final table),playing tight as i usually do,and as everyone folded,i went all in against the big blind with my last 6.5 k,now ill admit he had 60k,but he called me with 56 o/s????
Now this doesnt make sense,if he was holding paint or an ace ide say yeh,go for it,but 56 o/s,naturally he hit the 6 and knocked me out.
But what a crazy call,he stood to lose 1k if he folded,why make the call?
Theres only 2 explanations,some players are reading the software and have a good idea they'll win against short stacks in given situations.
Or some players playing have access to the flop patterns and know whats coming.
And when i say flop patterns,they do exist,hence why i make the money the majority of the time.
Its like some hands never ever win,why i dont play them,but yet again i get sucked out by a dubious call at a crucial moment.

[rockycatt]

ok they publish 98,000 players or so playing live so how is it that im always siting with a usual same group of players in cash games [refraining from naming
poker room ]

do all these players just play mtt tourneys if so ?? how many are bots

there ot to be a fool Prof way to spot a bot from the players side of the screen

i think that theres a incredible amount of bots in the mtt field and thats the reason for weird poker play

[rockycatt]

to late to edit but
i think if we play in organized password protected turney's like railbirds
or any other forum sponserd ones it should at least eliminate suspicious
players

[jstrike]

Bad beats happen in real life all the time, though. I mean, no matter where I play, I have at least one or two in a night, and see a bunch more than that happen right in front of me. Talking about online, it's definitely possible there are people out there who know what cards are coming out, but they'd have to be working with the casino to know that.

If you take all the bad beats you see online in a session, and subtract the number you see in a session at a real casino, I'd guess there's not that much difference. And what there is, you can probably chalk up to stupid players who don't have much experience, try and bluff a lot online, and end up hitting a few big scores. It's just that it's not transparent, so it's easier to say they probably cheated.

My guess is there's no cheating on the major sites like FT, but who knows.

[pokeraddict]

While I think your accusation is ridiculous why are you playing on Betfair? They are known rogues. They have stolen millions from casino players and right now there is a massive scandal having to do with missing money from seemingly hundreds of poker players.