Moneybookers account locked

[worriora]

problem solved, i reached them on twitter and they've urged my verification. I have my account unlocked now Thanks a lot all for your support.

[JHV]

I read the first page and skipped to the end.

Don't have time to read or debate the rest but Moneybookers >>> NETeller by such a long way it's just really unbelievable. As both a high volume player and poker affiliate across almost every site / network, I have a huge demand for alternatives to Moneybookers - but I will NEVER user NETeller again for as long as I live.

The arrogance and the terrible customer service at NETeller (yes, I was VIP and if there were ranks above VIP, I would have been those) were just gob-smacking unbelievable. Every time I contacted them, even about trivial matters. It was unbelievable.

Moneybookers aren't perfect, but they destroy NETeller in every facet of their operations...which is why they've taken so much market share from NETeller (who *might* be better now - my hellish year with them was directly post UIGEA). Either way, they're an horrendous company. Some of the chats with NETeller staff I and others posted were works of comedy - stuff that beat Rome CS chat I posted.

Are Moneybookers perfect? Of course not. They're a huge company and there are some issues with arrogance with CS refusing to admit mistakes they've made even when players show them proof (that could have a lot to do with training to avoid litigation and stuff) - but almost every time I hear of Moneybookers locking an account of a player I know, either the player is already known to be 'dodgy'...or they're later proved so. NETeller routinely was locking mine and other high volume players' accounts and demanding IDs multiple times in a calendar year - for one guy, > 15 times he sent them IDs to unlock his account - which was locked for no reason with none given when reopened each time.

[Jasminebed]

Originally Posted by worriora

problem solved, i reached them on twitter and they've urged my verification. I have my account unlocked now Thanks a lot all for your support.

I would have never thought of using Twitter. Is there something on the moneybooker's site that lead you to this solution, or did you decide on this course of action from some other source?

I will, however, remember that this worked for you if I or another forum member is having similar problems with Moneybookers.

[worriora]

Twitter was one of my anti moneybookers plan to tell everyone to avoid them, but after i posted some messages about my situation they've contacted me and managed to unlock my account.

Anyway, i realized that moneybookers are not a bad company, it's all about they CS team that sucks and if you find a well trained employer you have good chace to get your problem solved.

@JHV, in my case it wasn't about nothing 'dodgy' so your interpretation about this is not correct.

Anyway, i'm glad that my problem has been solved and hopefully it will not repet itself again.

[JHV]

Originally Posted by worriora

@JHV, in my case it wasn't about nothing 'dodgy' so your interpretation about this is not correct.

Sorry dude my sentence structure was poor there. I wasn't trying to imply your problem with them was due to you being dodgy - although if you've given their reason for the account being locked, I've missed it.

I was trying to say that based on the experiences of all the people I've known on a personal level, who posted on forums with their complaints about Moneybookers and NETeller, it's striking how often (for my spectrum) the ones complaining about NETeller were the shining lights of ethical behaviour and the ones complaining about Moneybookers had 'questions' or 'unresolved' disputes or issues of ethical nature - which leads me personally (along with my own experience with those jokers at NETeller) to believe that Moneybookers get this stuff right a lot - and NETeller are a joke company that shouldn't be in operation.

But you know, policies change and people change. I could have it wrong now - but they're brilliant for me and have been for a very long time when NETeller would almost ruin me from time to time with their rogue actions.

But Moneybookers have started promoting roguish casinos now on their website which is strange, to say the least. Of course they'll wash their hands of any rogue behaviour from those promoted brands when it inevitably occurs, and you could argue that's almost roguish in itself right there.

To the player earlier in the thread who questioned about VIP on Moneybookers, it's pretty similar to NETeller now (used to be a LOT harder and not openly publicised): You just need to ship 5k euro or more to a gaming merchant in any given month I *think* - maybe it changes from month to month though. No idea what your bank problem is - that's something you should take up with your bank I *think*. The wires show exactly who the remittance is from.

[vinylweatherman]

Neteller to me is the "devil I know".

Their CS can be terrible, and you can be on hold for a while, however, calling them is FREE. Moneybookers, on the other hand, offer PREMIUM RATE phone support, and online support.
Many complaints regarding Moneybookers have included non-responsive CS as the main reason issues are dragged out for so long.
worriora was trying in vain to open a clear and reliable path of communication, yet when he starts relating his tale of woe on TWITTER of all places, Moneybookers contact HIM, and the problem is resolved quickly. This shows that it was ONLY the inept CS, and not the issue at hand, that caused the problem in the first place.

Neteller are also very good at ignoring emails, but at least with FREE phone support I can badger them constantly, and THEY are paying for it if I have to keep on contacting them.

Neteller ARE worried about something though, because they have recently been running BONUS promotions, even though they say they are not a casino
Often, it is something like a 0.5% cashback on all deposits with "merchants" over a period of a few weeks. You have to exceed your "personal target" as well, clearly to encourage those players who might use more than one ewallet, to shift EVERYTHING over to Neteller for the duration. Neteller make money from the increase in fees this increase in volume produces.

If Neteller "take the p**$ with me though, I MAY jump ship to Moneybookers, because I might value a "fresh start" more than doing further battle with a broken Neteller. Having my account constently locked might be something that would make me move, but my account has only been locked once, and it was resolved by a single phonecall. It was locked when I used a PC at my Mum's house to check my balance, and was due to the connection being out of character with the connection IP range I usually use to access the account.

[JHV]

Ah ok - I was a staunch NETeller Man until they went crazy post-UIGEA and started developing a culture of terrible rude, arrogant CS - I'm not sure if I can find the hilarious transcripts (well not so funny, really - hilarious if you're not the victim) posted in 07 as that forum effectively was rebuilt and I think most old posts were deleted - but it was some really messed up stuff, and I had similar conversations with them to those transcripts.

Just with the phone charge issue - you don't use Skype at all? I'm almost certain I can call my VIP Manager at MB free on Skype. If there is a charge, it will be something negligible like a few cents a minute. But pretty sure to all US phones, it's free (?) - I dunno, I loaded my Skype with $20 a year ago and haven't reloaded since and use it often for international calls.

-----

Yes to the NETeller promotions - they are absolutely shocking because they encourage poker players to use a free (for the player) service which charges massive fees at merchant end. I know this has infuriated some merchants (obv) but they're held hostage to it (for now) by NETeller's market share. I do not believe NETeller will hold market share if they continue with those types of promotions which effectively pay players to transact in ways that tax the casinos and poker rooms - not just because it's unethical imo, but because doing so creates all sorts of problems for users like myself who aren't even interested in abusing the promotion as NETeller is trying to induce me to do. Examples would include:
- Low Cashout Limits
- Delayed Cashout Time
- Passing on Transaction Fees to Affiliates and Players via Deductions
- etc

Their first ever one of these promotions was the last straw for me and NETeller. I just knew it would create a whole world of problems (as these kinds of things always do) and I was then heavily inconvenienced by a flood of new rules poker rooms were rushing in to protect themselves against the inevitable abuse NETeller was inducing from players by paying them to transact.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by JHV

Ah ok - I was a staunch NETeller Man until they went crazy post-UIGEA and started developing a culture of terrible rude, arrogant CS - I'm not sure if I can find the hilarious transcripts (well not so funny, really - hilarious if you're not the victim) posted in 07 as that forum effectively was rebuilt and I think most old posts were deleted - but it was some really messed up stuff, and I had similar conversations with them to those transcripts.

Just with the phone charge issue - you don't use Skype at all? I'm almost certain I can call my VIP Manager at MB free on Skype. If there is a charge, it will be something negligible like a few cents a minute. But pretty sure to all US phones, it's free (?) - I dunno, I loaded my Skype with $20 a year ago and haven't reloaded since and use it often for international calls.

-----

Yes to the NETeller promotions - they are absolutely shocking because they encourage poker players to use a free (for the player) service which charges massive fees at merchant end. I know this has infuriated some merchants (obv) but they're held hostage to it (for now) by NETeller's market share. I do not believe NETeller will hold market share if they continue with those types of promotions which effectively pay players to transact in ways that tax the casinos and poker rooms - not just because it's unethical imo, but because doing so creates all sorts of problems for users like myself who aren't even interested in abusing the promotion as NETeller is trying to induce me to do. Examples would include:
- Low Cashout Limits
- Delayed Cashout Time
- Passing on Transaction Fees to Affiliates and Players via Deductions
- etc

Their first ever one of these promotions was the last straw for me and NETeller. I just knew it would create a whole world of problems (as these kinds of things always do) and I was then heavily inconvenienced by a flood of new rules poker rooms were rushing in to protect themselves against the inevitable abuse NETeller was inducing from players by paying them to transact.

As a casino player, I did suspect that merchants would suffer because Neteller were trying to encourage volume. The 0.5% Neteller gives back to us MUST be less than the fee to the merchant. I did wonder just WHY merchants just sat back and accepted it, but I now see that Neteller have started listing "excluded merchants", and the last time they ran this promo, the list was LONGER than the time before.
Neteller are STILL running promos like this, currently it is an entry into a draw for every $100 deposited into your Neteller account, and for every $1000 worth deposited to merchants. Something like this runs nearly all the time.
Naturally, now that there is an exclusion list, merchants can protect themselves by becoming excluded. If enough merchants do this, Neteller will be scuppered through customers not being able to realistically produce the required volume of transactions, so they won't bother.

Merchants need to EXPLAIN the problem though, otherwise players will think the rules are designed to screw them, rather than discourage Neteller transaction volume.

Rushmore recently announced a ban on bonuses for both Neteller and Moneybookers users. It crossed my mind that it MIGHT be related to this kind of promotion, but Rushmore REFUSE to say WHY they made this move, so players think it a slight against THEM, which may NOT be the case.

[JHV]

Yep it's easy to see how merchants get caught in a super tricky spot in the middle and, of course, it's almost always the player group who gets screwed.

Basically I believe NETeller (foolishly imo, but who knows) decided to really ramp up their advantage from holding such a huge % of market share in a very uncompetitive, almost monopolised (now starting to be more duopolised) market. Perhaps they had to raise x funds fast for the DoJ fines or yea, it's not important.

But um, yes the fees are a lot higher than what they're giving to players. I have no idea about the recent fees as I'm not a merchant and working it out from my poker players' deductions is doable but not so valuable as the fees differ from merchant to merchant...but as high as 6% or even higher (?) for some merchants. It's pretty brutal stuff.

And if merchants are starting to exclude Moneybookers, then pretty safe to say that they're following NETeller's path...surely? I can't think of any other reason to exclude the 2nd largest gaming payment processor in the world - god, I just hope they haven't effectively agreed to control the fees OPEC-style rather than work in competition. That would really suck.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by JHV

Yep it's easy to see how merchants get caught in a super tricky spot in the middle and, of course, it's almost always the player group who gets screwed.

Basically I believe NETeller (foolishly imo, but who knows) decided to really ramp up their advantage from holding such a huge % of market share in a very uncompetitive, almost monopolised (now starting to be more duopolised) market. Perhaps they had to raise x funds fast for the DoJ fines or yea, it's not important.

But um, yes the fees are a lot higher than what they're giving to players. I have no idea about the recent fees as I'm not a merchant and working it out from my poker players' deductions is doable but not so valuable as the fees differ from merchant to merchant...but as high as 6% or even higher (?) for some merchants. It's pretty brutal stuff.

And if merchants are starting to exclude Moneybookers, then pretty safe to say that they're following NETeller's path...surely? I can't think of any other reason to exclude the 2nd largest gaming payment processor in the world - god, I just hope they haven't effectively agreed to control the fees OPEC-style rather than work in competition. That would really suck.

6% is even higher than CREDIT CARDS! I thought credit cards were excluded from those regular "deposit method bonuses" because of the higher fees. Small merchants probably get charged the highest fees, just as with credit cards. Do you know if Neteller rebates the fees if the merchant refunds the deposit back - this seems to be the model with credit cards, and the driving force behind casinos deciding to return any amount up to the total of deposits back to a VISA card before allowing other payment methods to be used.

There was a potential competitor, Ivobank, but this didn't seem to get off the ground, despite being a FULLY regulated BANK, rather than an ewallet. The difference meant that the first £50,000 of players' funds at Ivobank would have been covered by the Financial Compensation Scheme. The position at Neteller seems to be that only the equivalent of €1000 is covered in the event that Neteller goes bust, and this is NOT by the Financial Compensation Scheme.

The problem for Ivobank was that it was no use whilst so few merchants accepted it as a deposit/withdrawal method.