Beware of Moneybookers

[wernerw]

Moneybookers locked my account. But the really interesting thing is how they they did it.

This should concern you if you have a Moneybookers account:

I only noticed that my account was locked when I tried to deposit at Pokerstars on July 31st (last day).

So they found something fishy in my account (honestly I have no idea what) and did not contact me first about it, no they simply locked.

And then, they did not inform me about the fact that they locked, no, they just waited.

Does sound fishy to you? That is not all...

I logged in and checked my account. Everything seemed to fine. The witdrawal limits are good, everything nice.

I just can not withdraw.

So why are they hiding this fact from their customers??

Ok, I wanted to contact them.

Email address?? no
Live support?? no
Telephone?? Oh yes, during british business hours and you have to pay 25p per minute. WTF??

Ahh, there is a so-called messaging centre. But it is simply a possibility to send them stuff, and then you have to wait until you receive an answer from them by email (no-reply-email address of course).

So they tell me that I have to send additional documents. (I have been a customer for years and there was nothing obvious to me in the last few weeks that could have induced such a step).

So I uploaded the documents, enclosed questions about their procedure and telling them that I am not a criminal and do not want to be treated as such.

Soon I received answer in german telling me that I
- have agreed to their terms and conditions that they can request additional documents and that they can lock or close my account if I fail to do so.

Are they crazy?? I received this email in response to my sending the documents.

I am deeply concerned that Moneybookers is trying to steal my money. They are not reacting since 24 hours. I sent a complain, no reaction.

 

[Nicole50]

For me I have closed my account there because they did not allow me to deposit my own money at the Online casinos especially when uploading money instantly by Ideal from my bank account. They told me it is not allow to put money in gaming sites. That' why I closed the account definitively.I dont know why until now.

they have bad support system and you can not talk to anyobody there. That's why it is risky site.I opted for Neteller and they have good chat support like the online casino and I have no problems at all (deposit and withdrawal by Neteller card). What I advise you is to call them in working days from Monday. They respond only in this days before 18 H00

 

[topoor]

Further dubious actions by Moneybookers.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pkr-revoking-bonus-for-no-reason.25696/

 

[wernerw]

Further dubious actions by Moneybookers.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/pkr-revoking-bonus-for-no-reason.25696/

Maybe this link is wrong?

 

[maxd]

Maybe this link is wrong?

No, topoor is just pointing out that in her case with PKR there has been some questionable activity at Moneybookers, kind of a "me too" thing I guess.

 

[wernerw]

No, topoor is just pointing out that in her case with PKR there has been some questionable activity at Moneybookers, kind of a "me too" thing I guess.

I see.

Now after 4 days (2 business days) still locked account. I uploaded the requested documents.

They still ignore my request to let me know what is going on, why they acted like this.

I entered a complaint on friday (saturday?) and their rules state to give a first answer within 48 hours. No reaction still.

All normal business practice???

I am doing nothing unusual with my account. Deposit in pokerrooms, withdraw from there, from time to time transfer money to my bank account.

I am still deeply concerned about my money and - yes, sorry - getting more and more angry about what they do.

 

[wernerw]

Update:
After more than a week they finally unlocked my account.

They did not answer my messages any more until I wrote them on friday that by monday evening I will contact financial ombudsman and FSA in case they do not start to answer my questions.

Then they suddenly answered again, telling me that all they did was following their T&C (which in my opinion is not true).

I again confirmed them that unless I receive answers I will proceed as announced.

When I came home from work today, voila, the account is unlocked.

Seems that I found the right words.

The ONLY hint they gave me was that my "gambling transactions" were suspicious.

So I still warn everybody. If you care about your money, beware of this company.

 

[xenthebrain]

Be prepared to wait upto 3 months until they unlock the account. Saw a post at 2+2 about that, people replying with Moneybookers responsetimes from 8-12 weeks. I also can confirm this 2nd hand from friends who told me about this issue.

It's ridiculous to take that long to verify an account and in most cases customers have been with them for several months or even years already.

Edit: Overlooked that they verified you. For you it really only was faster because you pressed so hard. Maybe more people should do that to keep them on their toes on that one.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Update:
After more than a week they finally unlocked my account.

They did not answer my messages any more until I wrote them on friday that by monday evening I will contact financial ombudsman and FSA in case they do not start to answer my questions.

Then they suddenly answered again, telling me that all they did was following their T&C (which in my opinion is not true).

I again confirmed them that unless I receive answers I will proceed as announced.

When I came home from work today, voila, the account is unlocked.

Seems that I found the right words.

The ONLY hint they gave me was that my "gambling transactions" were suspicious.

So I still warn everybody. If you care about your money, beware of this company.

WTF are they up to! Both Moneybookers and Neteller were created with the EXPRESS PURPOSE of being a facility for GAMBLING TRANSACTIONS. If you deposit and withdraw from casino and poker sites, what is so damn "suspicious" about that, it's what they are for, Moneybookers even PROMOTE online gambling sites (including Ministering Angel, who they clearly didn't bother verifying first)

Oddly enough, I had the same from Neteller - I ONLY make gambling transactions, yet they asked for more documents, but more worryingly, asked me what, and who with, my transactions were for. Surely, as they were all with THEIR own merchants, they bloody well KNEW that I was transacting with online gambling sites. If they had to ask, it shows that these eWallets really have no idea who their "merchants" are, and have to run the odd "fishing expedition" in order to catch the dodgy ones who are using the merchant/customer relationship for criminal purposes.

Moneybookers only compound this by having no proper route for customers to complain, and seem only to open up to communication when they are threatened with the UK Financial Ombudsman. Their licence requires them to respond, and have a proper internal complaints procedure, and they know full well that failure to respond is the same as issuing a deadlock letter, and enables the complainant to take the matter further.

While it may be within their terms to request additional documents at any time, they are expected to handle the matter in a professional manner, something that seems to be lacking with both them, and Neteller. At least with Neteller you can phone their (inept) CS and have a rant, even if it gets you nowhere.
Moneybookers are supposed to have live chat, which they encourage customers to use in preference to phone support. Live chat also keeps a record of the conversation, even if it is a case of taking screenshots or a cut & paste.
It is also possible to write to them, but this would not get immediate action, however, they are required to respond in a timely manner, which I believe is around 14 days from receipt of a complaint.

It is worrying that so many problems of this nature have recently emerged with webwallets, and it seems that Moneybookers have an unhealthily close relationship with online casinos that seems to get in the way of them acting in the interests of their customers. The case of topoor shows that Moneybookers will act simply on the word of one of their merchants, and close down an account, whereras if a player complains about a merchant, Moneybookers will claim it is not their problem, and to take it up with the merchant.
Moneybookers also showed that even a new merchant, Ministering Angel, can simply "buy" a promotional banner without Moneybookers checking into their background. Had Moneybookers checked into Ministering Angel with anything like the degree they check their ordinary customers, they would have immediately noticed that there was serious reason to doubt their integrity, and they should have never been given a merchant account, let alone advertising space.

If a fully regulated bank behaved in this manner, they would be under the hammer of the regulators, but there is actually little "regulation" involved with the "small eMoney issuer" licences that Moneybookers and Neteller have. It is more a case that they have licences to be excused from the more stringent rules required of banks in exchange for limits on the amount of eMoney they are allowed to issue to customers.
The limit is about 1000 Euro, and any more is not protected under the investor compensation rules, unlike banks, where the first 35,000 is covered.
To hold more than 1000 Euro, customers have to agree that the surplus is secure only in the trust accounts held by the eWallets, and not covered by any investor compensation scheme.
For Neteller, this is fairly safe, since they are regulated by the Isle Of Man - but I am not sure about Moneybookers, who are based in London, and rely on their "small eMoney issuer" waiver, and the strength of their trust arrangements, to keep client funds protected from any meltdowns in the system.

I cannot see how any customer that does not use the person to person transfer facility in these eWallets can be viewed as making "suspicious transactions", although there may be doubt about their identity if their documents were not up to date.

Moneybookers handled this far more badly than Neteller. I was asked to send updated documents, but was allowed around a month to put these together, and in the mean time had full access to my account functionality.
Despite a degree of ineptness with their CS in following through with the procedure, I was always able to use my Neteller account as it was intended.

It may be possible to challenge the fairness of these terms under consumer contract laws, which could cause Moneybookers to change the way they handle these routine checks so that there is a fairer balance between them and the consumer. Certainly, it would not be fair to just lock the account down, and rebuff all attempts by the customer to communicate as to why, where in fact they should have issued a request for documents, giving a reasonable time to comply, with the account only being locked if the customer ignored the request.

This may well be another case of the merchant passing on their suspicions to Moneybookers, who then acted on it by locking the account and asking for documents. In the case of topoor, they went on to permanently lock her account, and it later emerged that it was an allegation from PKR that two people were using the account that was passed to Moneybookers that landed topoor in the mess. Moneybookers clearly believed this to be the case, and permanently blocked the account.

 

[bingolady]

In an ideal world gambling would be clearly regulated (byebye rogue casinos, scammers etc), not the financial institutions would be prohibited from the transactions of gambling. But since we are forced to use other methods, these so-called e-wallets can work like worms, and suck your blood till they lock your account without any warning, without any obligations to account for their activities. And what can you do? If you are from the US, you have no rights to complain as you are doing "illegal" activities, if you are in the UK, you can threaten them with the ombudsman, if you are from the other part of the world, you can say byebye to your money.

Unfortunately the problem lies in the idiot minds of the politicans.