King Cashalot

[spearmaster]

The jackpot data:

$1,218,298.51 Sep 14, 2005 11:18:00 AM GMT

This is an approximate value and could fluctuate a few bucks either side. Judging by the reset value, the jackpot was probably won in dollars.

[Petunia]

** IMHO - you should look at the figures as a 'credit' rather than a monatory amount. Your 'credit' will be converted into a 'monatory' amount once it is won. It not only work that way with the Jackpots, but pretty much any promo or bonus. if you are offered $10 and your account is in £, you will get £10. Who pays for it? Considering that both currencies are used for play and pay... guess it evens out somewhere along the line of cyber-space!
I look at it as credits. It keeps me sane. have never played a progressive. Maybe now is the time to start?! **

[KasinoKing]

Damn! The jackpot's gone.
And I was hoping to be a millionaire by midnight!

Can anyone remind me of that website that shows all the Progressive jackpots including loads of stats about how often hit etc?
(I seem to have lost the URL)

[spearmaster]

The first site you can find in my signature. The second one is www.slotcharts.com.

[KasinoKing]

That was the one I meant. Thanks matey!

[slotchik]

Damn! The jackpot's gone.
And I was hoping to be a millionaire by midnight!

Can anyone remind me of that website that shows all the Progressive jackpots including loads of stats about how often hit etc?
(I seem to have lost the URL)

www.jackpotmadness.com

[Simmo!]

Damn! The jackpot's gone.
And I was hoping to be a millionaire by midnight!

Dont worry KK, you couldn't get the Jackpot playing a penny a line anyway ...

[guesswest]

It's not complex at all. This is a very simple thing to implement.

I would, however, like to know why you think this is not fair, since:

1. Your chances increase at the same rate as everyone else's. There is no bias in favor of or against any player.
2. The odds cannot be (or shouldn't be) able to be manipulated by a human, and do not swing high/low - odds only decrease over time in a standard fashion until the jackpot is hit (ie there are no fluctuations).

There should be no problem with this method being used under any jurisdiction as long as it is clear that no one can gain any direct advantage from anything but the passing of time, or a direct correlation between odds and value of jackpot.

Couple of thoughts on this. Firstly this issue of weighting, I don't know what MG mean by this. Traditional 3 reel offline slot machines are 'weighted', originally by actual weights, ie making certain parts of the wheel heavier, I believe nowadays they use magnets. Normally 5 line machines aren't weighted. This stands to reason as there can't be all that many symbols on a 3 reel wheel that'd fit in a machine that size, yet they still somehow generate 6 figure progressives from them at $1 a spin. It's also why 5 reel slot machines have greater variance in land based casinos, which most people who use them will have noticed. This kind of weighting I have no problem with, the reason I have no problem with it is the weighting is the same at all times, and external to the jackpot size, it's fixed odds on hitting.

But if, as spear suggests, by 'weighting' MG mean that these slots are actually cogniscent of the jackpot size, that I have a huge problem with, and I agree it's unfair. Firstly, two players may have the same chance of hitting at exactly the same time, but they don't have the same chance of hitting as the guy who span it yesterday, that's unfair in my mind. Secondly, it means that reels don't spin independently or naturally. For instance, if I line up 4 wilds on the jackpot line, the chances of hitting that progressive with real odds might now be, for example, 1 in 250 - but is the reality that it's actually 1 in a million? zero? because of the machines payout schedule? If i get two scatters are my chances of hitting a third not elevated? That makes the whole game totally artificial. That kind of 'weighting', if it is indeed what MG do, is something I have a huge problem with - it's what they used to do with slot machines in bars etc decades ago before there was proper regulation.

So I agree with Jamie that it isn't fair. I do disagree tho that there is no reason to set up a machine like that. A machine rigged in this way will eventually take the same amount of casino profit as one that isn't, but programming slots in such a way would kill the variance completely. That's a good thing for an online casino that doesn't have the kind of start-up capital that the huge Vegas casinos etc do.

Lastly, odds don't decrease over time unless a game is fixed. If a 1 in 10 shot doesn't come in over a thousand spins it's still only a 1 in 10 shot the next spin, in a fair game. I had hoped that MG progressives were a fair game. What is your source on MG slots working like this spear?

[spearmaster]

Odds decreasing over time is not what I call a fixed game nor is it rigged. Again, I am not stating that MGS progressives are or are not weighted - I am presuming, based on my experience, that they are.

5 reel machines are always weighted. The positions of the reels are controlled by a microcomputer chip. There is not a single 5 reel game in the world that I know of which is free-wheeling.

No video slot machine spins independently or naturally. It does, however, post a random result based on the RNG, regardless of whether it is a normal or progressive slot, and regardless of any weighting.

Weighting only takes place outside the RNG, and so long as it:

1. Is not human-controlled
2. Does not increase the odds of a prize being won
3. Is otherwise independent of any regulation other than time or value

should be perfectly fine. Of course I am happy to invite other experts on this matter to challenge this.

By the way, for another example of weighted slots, how about those machines that build up "eggs" or "dynamite" or whatever, and once you hit the limit, the "jackpot" bursts and you get the credits?

That is far more descriptive of your scenario. And far closer to a fruit machine than any progressive should ever be.

All of my posts regarding this matter are my own opinion and have no basis in fact.

[guesswest]

Good stuff, thanks for posting back.

RE: slots that build up bonus credits, I'm not sure this would be different because without weighting, or with 'normal' weighting, it'd still be fixed odds on hitting the bonus, just the value of the bonus would change. In much the same way a natural progressive would build. It'd be the same thing only if the odds of hitting that bonus increased, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't on those slots - but, I might be wrong.

Truth is, tho I'm pretty sure what I've said so far is accurate, I just plain don't know enough about the workings of slot machines to evaluate all of it properly. There's also a lack of official info from MG on just how their slots work, and I really think they should provide this, seems fair that players should have access to this kind of info. What would be really cool is if there was some slots/gaming expert floating about who could jump in on this thread, because it's a pretty interesting subject I think. Anyone like that around?