WR, deposit+bonus X10,X15,...X30: from when do you find WR acceptable ?

**philipfromparis** · 5th August 2005, 04:11 PM

Hi there,

Just have a little question to ask to the valuable community of pro gamblers, especially those who are used to play with bonus and who have understood all the interest to play with them : from when do you think it's possible to meet the WR ? (deposit + bonus X10,X15,X20...) I've seen in some places X30, even X40 ?!? And in other words, when do you think it is a swindle ?

Thanks for your precious comments

Philipfromparis

**Vesuvio** · 5th August 2005, 04:27 PM

I don't like going much above 20x d+b on manual offers, but in order to tell if a bonus is worth doing you should just base it on the expected profit and the hourly rate that works out at for your chosen stake. What are you willing to work for?

e.g. a 100/100 bonus with BJ allowed will usually stay profitable right up until around 125x d+b, but if you're getting above 100x you'd probably be better off picking up coins in the street

**Macgyver** · 5th August 2005, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Vesuvio

e.g. a 100/100 bonus with BJ allowed will usually stay profitable right up until around 125x d+b, but if you're getting above 100x you'd probably be better off picking up coins in the street

My God, Vesuvio, don't give these casinos any ideas!!

Edit that number out if you still can ...

**KasinoKing** · 6th August 2005, 12:35 PM

Hi Phil,

If we are talking about withdrawable bonus here, then I would say my maximum would be around the 15x (D+B) for a 100% bonus.

Because there are many different offers, I think the best way to measure WR (as suggested by someone else here on the forum) is to always put it in terms of how many times the bonus only has to be wagered.
e.g.
15x(D+B) @ 100% = 30x the bonus
15x(D+B) @ 50% = 45x the bonus
15x(D+B) @ 200% = 22.5x the bonus
Some casino's only state BxN, e.g. Intercasino is 25x the bonus (only)

So as I said, up to x30 is as high as I would go - anything beyond that is frankly, a total joke.

**Vesuvio** · 6th August 2005, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by KasinoKing

So as I said, up to x30 is as high as I would go - anything beyond that is frankly, a total joke.

Cheers KK, that's of course what I meant to say

(whose bright idea was it to stop posts being editable after a few hours

)

**Bruce Hamilton** · 6th August 2005, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by KasinoKing

So as I said, up to x30 is as high as I would go - anything beyond that is frankly, a total joke.

Personally, I shy away from casinos that exceed 15x, unless they're offering a bonus I can't pass up... Like 200% match or more. Otherwise, I'll just make a larger deposit and not claim the bonus, so I can cash out while I'm still somewhat ahead.

**KasinoKing** · 6th August 2005, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by philipfromparis

I've seen in some places X30, even X40 ?!? And in other words, when do you think it is a swindle ?

Sorry Phil, I missed this part of your question.

By calling it a 'swindle' it sounds like you think players are being somehow cheated if they can't meet the WR with some sort of profit. (ie. with some of the bonus money intact). This seems to be a common view among some posters here, but I think it is quite wrong.
Excuse me stating the bleeding obvious, but I think it needs to be said here.
Casino's are not charities, they are in business to make money. They offer bonuses to attract players in the hope of profiting from them. They want people to fail to meet WR with profit, and then go on to lose their entire deposit in an attempt to win it back. The best casino's set their WR at the level they think will be attractive to players whilst still giving the house the overall edge. They will accept that some players will profit from their bonuses, because they know many more will fail. What spoils this industry are the rogue casino's who don't like ANY player profiting from bonus - just look around this section at all the complaints about RTG's and Playtechs: where players have met all the T&C's but STILL get screwed.

So back to the question. No I don't think high WR's represent a 'swindle'. I accept bonuses for what they are: an incentive to play and a head start in my attempt to make a profit. As in my first reply - if I don't like the terms, I simply wont play at that casino.

PS: Vesuvio - I agree the edit time is far too short!

Time to start pestering Bryan...?

**pstnpstn** · 6th August 2005, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by KasinoKing

So as I said, up to x30 is as high as I would go - anything beyond that is frankly, a total joke.

totally agree.

my maximum allowance is bonus*30
of course blackjack is allowed.
It is equal to (deposit+bonus)*15

I do not play there if higher than bonus*30 even though blackjack is allowed.
So I do not play MG casinos.