Maple casino - Gangster terms?

[trick]

I looked at the terms for Maple casino and found this bit (my bold):

"If you are found to be cheating or attempting to defraud the Game, or if you make untrue and/or malicious comments with regard to Maple Casino's operation, Maple Casino reserves the right to publicize your actions together with your identity and e-mail address, as well as to circulate this information to other casinos, banks, credit card companies, and appropriate agencies."

Is this not like saying "If you are not happy with us, keep your mouth shut or we will drag you through the mud with every casino, bank, credit card company, and appropriate agency we can find"?

It's been a while since I last read any T&Cs but is this really what we are comming to? Attempts to gag customers via the T&C?

 

[jetset]

Whoa! That would seem to my mind to raise some very serious privacy issues. I'm going to draw eCOGRA's attention to this.

 

[tim5ny]

Sounds like they got Tony Soprano to write the t+c's. "You keep your mouth shut!.. or you'll be sleeping with the fishes!"

 

[Vesuvio]

VPL do have some stunning terms and conditions at present. If you took them seriously they'd probably belong on the not-recommended list. This is one of the most blatant catch-all we-can-do-whatever-we-like terms I've seen:

7. Promotion Abuse

Maple Casino management reserves the right to determine whether play has been deemed to be promotion abuse even though there may have been compliance with the above terms and conditions.

 

[nafanny29]

Online gaming is such fun these days. Never mind winning or losing its all about checking the T&Cs with a fine tooth comb to see if you will actually get paid if lightning strikes LOL

 

[suzecat]

Makes you wonder..........

I looked at the terms for Maple casino and found this bit (my bold):

"If you are found to be cheating or attempting to defraud the Game, or if you make untrue and/or malicious comments with regard to Maple Casino's operation, Maple Casino reserves the right to publicize your actions together with your identity and e-mail address, as well as to circulate this information to other casinos, banks, credit card companies, and appropriate agencies."

Is this not like saying "If you are not happy with us, keep your mouth shut or we will drag you through the mud with every casino, bank, credit card company, and appropriate agency we can find"?

It's been a while since I last read any T&Cs but is this really what we are comming to? Attempts to gag customers via the T&C?

Makes you wonder what Maple Casino has done/is doing to customers that would make them want to post on message boards. Does Maple need to learn customer service 101 where customers are treated fairly and have no reason to vent/post the boards? If I ever play there I'll be sure to put my Ouzi on my lap before I login.

 

[dominique]

I suppose putting them on a Blacklist and inviting others to exchange links with that Blacklist page to further propagate the info on the search engines won't make them happy - but the listing is surely not untrue or malicious!

I will put the link - Bryan, if that is out of order please just nuke it.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Sodax77]

...or if you make untrue and/or malicious comments with regard to Maple Casino's operation...

Live Chat (part of)

When i ask, why it is necessary:

Maple Casino: The legal department have come up with this, and this is due to player abuse, we have to, as any other company , have advisory warnings against player abuse.
Maple Casino: this is to prevent people from abusing the maple casino name unfairly.

When i ask about privacy issue:

...Maple Casino reserves the right to publicize your actions together with your identity and e-mail address, as well as to circulate this information to other casinos, banks, credit card companies, and appropriate agencies.

Maple Casino: you would have to contact our legal team ro discuss the fine print and legal ramifications with them.

 

[chucho]

Maple Casino reserves the right to publicize your actions together with your identity and e-mail address, as well as to circulate this information to other casinos, banks, credit card companies, and appropriate agencies.

Maple Hood Casino. That shit is straight up gangster, which should not shock anyone considering that BThug is the owner/operator.

 

[jamiester]

what?

BThug? Is that as in bethug of the Hood 3000 system? The guy from the OPU? Or am I confusing two people. I would have trouble believing he was running a casino.

 

[jetset]

Those responses to Sodax's questions are a cop-out plain and simple. If the management was at all professional and ethical it would veto any suggestions from lawyers that this sort of image-damaging crap be placed on the site.

I don't buy the lawyer story - this is an over-zealous management trying to intimidate anyone who might have a bad experience with Maple in my opinion.

Casinos do have a tough time with the myriad scams and fraudsters out there, but that does not justify this sort of threat to invade privacy.

The guys at Maple and its sisters know better than this...and they are capable of far better than this. They need to take another look at these T&Cs.

 

[The Dude]

What a thing to wake up to in the morning. I don't see how this term is warranted. It's an excellent casino that has a damn good reputation, and I wouldn't see how anyone over there would be worried about malicious postings. And the player privacy thing is a bit too much. This is a term that some of the cheesy Central American casinos have implemented. I've requested that they remove this term. It's eally unneccessary.

7. Promotion Abuse

Maple Casino management reserves the right to determine whether play has been deemed to be promotion abuse even though there may have been compliance with the above terms and conditions.

Can't find this one. I know we had a discussion earlier that there was term that stated further that winnings would not be paid, but this was changed. Winnings would be paid, but the player would probably not get any more promos.

 

[jetset]

BTW, I believe they'll be getting a call from the CEO of eCOGRA today, too.

 

[Vesuvio]

Can't find this one. I know we had a discussion earlier that there was term that stated further that winnings would not be paid, but this was changed. Winnings would be paid, but the player would probably not get any more promos.

It's here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I think you're right, though, they're now saying that they will pay the current cash-in in full, so there's not really an issue with it anymore (I just assumed it hadn't changed). No-one disputes the right of casinos to exclude players from further play, however doubtful the reasons. Sorry for distracting the discussion from the gangster terms

 

[elscrabinda]

I loved dominique's blacklist! Could almost have been taken directly from Bryan's recommended list!

Nothing quite like an affiliate scorned

 

[The Dude]

I've already been in contact with the casino, and changes are being made.

 

[KasinoKing]

I've already been in contact with the casino, and changes are being made.

:notworthy Just remember - with great power comes great responsibility!

 

[philipfromparis]

I suppose putting them on a Blacklist and inviting others to exchange links with that Blacklist page to further propagate the info on the search engines won't make them happy - but the listing is surely not untrue or malicious!

I will put the link - Bryan, if that is out of order please just nuke it.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I wonder why in this list we can find numerous casinos that are blacklisted on your website Dominique and that are reputable for Bryan ? Don't you have somehow the same feelings and points of view towards one place or another ? And then, who am i to believe when gambling ?

Philipfromparis

 

[The Dude]

:notworthy Just remember - with great power comes great responsibility!

Now where have I heard that before?

I wonder why in this list we can find numerous casinos that are blacklisted on your website Dominique and that are reputable for Bryan ? Don't you have somehow the same feelings and points of view towards one place or another ? And then, who am i to believe when gambling ?

If you read this thread, you'll understand Dom's (and a few other's) frustration.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/fortune-affiliates-retroactive-terms.8913/?t=8913

Personally, I think it's a bit premature to go around blacklisting casinos because this is an ongoing complex situation.

 

[suzecat]

Choke, Shock

Maple Hood Casino. That shit is straight up gangster, which should not shock anyone considering that BThug is the owner/operator.

CM??????? Any proof to this? Disagree/agree?

 

[spearmaster]

Bethug is definitely not the owner/operator of Maple... LOL...

As for blacklists - I think it's warranted to put up an AFFILIATE blacklist, perhaps, but if these lists (I haven't looked) are blacklisting casinos for PLAYERS, I certainly wouldn't agree with that.

 

[dominique]

I don't believe making a player/affiliate distinction when it comes to the honesty of casinos. Either I trust them or I don't. If they don't pay players I toss them, and if the don't pay affiliates I toss them too. To me, there is no difference. I listen a lot to Bryan, and I also use my personal judgement.

These casinos were on my "trusted list" (I don't keep one, but I only put those I personally trust on my site) too until just a day ago. I haven't even had a chance yet to pull them off my site. I finally gave up on Fortune, Vegas Partners and Partnerlogic. Partnerlogic is so removed from everything I don't even know if they are aware of any of the grievances. Fortune and Vegas Partners have shown no intention to even try to reach some sort of agreement. They retroactively changed their T&Cs and that is that.

On the positive side, I just removed Referback (Belle Rock) and Wager Junction (Grand Aces et al) from my blacklist as they removed the retoactive changes to their T&Cs. I may not like Referback's deal anymore, but they are not in breach.

Anyways, to me there is no difference if a casino cheats players out of money or if it cheats affiliates out of money. A cheat is a cheat.

 

[spearmaster]

I may not like Referback's deal anymore, but they are not in breach.

Sheesh.

They have been operating in breach for AGES now - just because the current terms don't bother you doesn't mean they haven't been screwing the pooches every month.

 

[dominique]

This is true - but it is also the reason I am so adamant about not letting this happen again. We didn't act when Referback did this, and I understand there is a time factor in these things as far as the law is concerned - a "grandfathering" factor.

I just want to make sure it doesn't happen again. It will become "normal in the industry" to ignore contracts and change T&Cs at will. There will be plenty of precedent for that argument if we don't stop this one.

 

[scrollock]

does anyone know if VPL run ANY part of its operation from the uk? if they do and you have been a victim of this, then i would suggest that you report this to the britsh police as what they done is very serious criminal act. also if they have any part of their operation stationed here then in 2007 they will need a gaming licence, something which i think they will have already kissed goodbye to if this is the case.

 

[spearmaster]

I understand there is a time factor in these things as far as the law is concerned - a "grandfathering" factor.

What a load of crap. In most types of law, that would be called a Statute of Limitations, which is usually 30 years, not a few months.

Ask your lawyer about grandfathering terms which are in breach. That is totally absurd.

 

[dominique]

What a load of crap. In most types of law, that would be called a Statute of Limitations, which is usually 30 years, not a few months.

Ask your lawyer about grandfathering terms which are in breach. That is totally absurd.

It's not got anything to do with the statute of limitations in contract law.

But I will be happy to pass along your comment next time we talk.

It has to do with compliance, not removing their properties of my site at the time it happened.

So now I have a lot of work to do removing and replacing properties. See ya around - but a lot less until that's done.

 

[Sodax77]

webmasters, etc glad to see your "off topic" replies regularly....
but can you sometimes talk about those in different section.
Thank you.

 

[The Dude]

webmasters, etc glad to see your "off topic" replies regularly....
but can you sometimes talk about those in different section.
Thank you.

Ditto. Please don't derail the thread. If you would like to complain about Referback, feel free to start a thread in the complaints section or webmaster section. Referback has nothing to do with Gangsta terms at VPL

 

[Sodax77]

Ditto. Please don't derail the thread. If you would like to complain about Referback, feel free to start a thread in the complaints section or webmaster section. Referback has nothing to do with Gangsta terms at VPL

Was this sarcastic comment?

Mine was. I'm so bored to read, when webmasters start their "fight"/"off topic posts" at wrong topic (regularly). That i mean with my post

 

[The Dude]

No, I didn't mean to sound sarcastic. "Ditto" means I agree with you. I meant that the webmaster issue (Referback's terms and conditions) should be discussed somewhere else, and not dominate this thread. I'm trying to keep things organized, that's all.

 

[The Dude]

Oh I get it now, you were being sarcastic. Ha ha ha. Okay.

 

[Sodax77]

Oh I get it now, you were being sarcastic. Ha ha ha. Okay.

LOL. No problem

Umm... i think i need more drinks, so i write better english

 

[dominique]

I am sorry, I apologize, I just got hooked in by Maple's T&Cs. They are just unbelievable.

 

[trick]

And to get back on track, nothing has changed at Maple Casino so far... The Tony Soprano terms are still in effect...

 

[The Dude]

And to get back on track, nothing has changed at Maple Casino so far... The Tony Soprano terms are still in effect...

I'm not here to make excuses for Maple Casino, but I was under the impression that these were going to be removed. I'm thinking their webmaster didn't upload the change yet.

 

[tim5ny]

Maple Hood Casino. That shit is straight up gangster, which should not shock anyone considering that BThug is the owner/operator.

WTF?? He may be alot of things... but a casino owner/operator isn't one of them.

 

[The Dude]

WTF?? He may be alot of things... but a casino owner/operator isn't one of them.

It was only a joke. A stupid joke, but a joke anyway.

 

[VPL]

T & C change...

Hi All,

We are curerntly waiting for eCogra to review and approve the term change.

Please note that this term has been on VPL casinos since the first day that Crazy Vegas was launched, and was not a recent change.

It should hopefully be changed by the end of today.

Regards
VPL

 

[spearmaster]

As strange as it seems, this just goes to show you how few players actually read the terms and conditions carefully - or, at least in the case of Casinomeister readers.

I for one believe this term may well have been included since day one - might even have read it myself but kind of discounted it.

We'll wait for the good news. But now you have another issue you had better prepare to deal with, and this issue IS recent and about to become very hot. So perhaps you need to put out the embers before they flare up. I presume you know what I am talking about so I'll not bring it up any further.

 

[VPL]

New Term

Hi All,

This term has been changed.

It now reads :

Personal information supplied at the time of registration or at any time thereafter will only be used for the purpose of determining the legitimacy of account registrations and activity. Vegas Partner Lounge will keep all personal account information relating to the player confidential, save that Vegas Partner Lounge may disclose information where required by law to appropriate authorities for the prevention and detection of crime or any other duly authorised purpose of any public authority, or pursuant to the order of any competent court. Where applicable Vegas Partner Lounge may also convey personal and account information to a third party for use in the recovery of any sums owed to Vegas Partner Lounge by the player.

I hope this seems fair to all parties.

Regards
VPL

 

[scrollock]

Hi All,

This term has been changed.

It now reads :

Personal information supplied at the time of registration or at any time thereafter will only be used for the purpose of determining the legitimacy of account registrations and activity. Vegas Partner Lounge will keep all personal account information relating to the player confidential, save that Vegas Partner Lounge may disclose information where required by law to appropriate authorities for the prevention and detection of crime or any other duly authorised purpose of any public authority, or pursuant to the order of any competent court. Where applicable Vegas Partner Lounge may also convey personal and account information to a third party for use in the recovery of any sums owed to Vegas Partner Lounge by the player.

I hope this seems fair to all parties.

Regards
VPL

that is very fair and i'm sure everyone else think so the same, also is very complient with the particular laws in the UK i mentioned earlier in this thread, so one question did you google like i did to come up with that? or did you pay that fancy lawyer of yours to do that for you?

 

[spearmaster]

Have I been ignored again? Talk about fair to ALL parties...

 

[VPL]

Spearmaster,

We are aggressively working on an alternative for the current situation, and we will hopefully, by next week, have a mutually beneficial resolution.

Regards,
VPL

 

[jetset]

Encouraging to see good sense and fairness prevailing at last - now this business of the retroactrive affiliate changes needs to be addressed and we can all get on with it.

 

[spearmaster]

Thank you, VPL. I look forward to hearing your proposed solution.

 

[dominique]

Looking forward to hearing all about it!