Opinions On What Would Be Considered As 'Beating The House'

[Black21Jack]

I want to give a hypothetical and I would like peoples opinion on whether they think the 'house', and a 'negative expectation game' has been beaten.

On Monday Joe Schmo deposits $1000.00 into XXXX Online Casino and plays what he considers his 'method'. By the following Sunday his balance is $2000.00 and he cashes out $1000.00 to his bank leaving $1000.00 in the casino. Now he plays with that $1000.00 for the rest of his life, using a 'stop loss' method along with a little self control, making a cashout every week off of that $1000.00. Don't forget that Joe leaves $1000.00 in his casino account at all times and never makes another deposit to XXXX Online Casino.

I just want an answer to the above question without anyone saying it is not possible, or being negative. Just answer yes or no, whether you consider as the 'house' being beat.

[Macgyver]

Yes.

[bethug]

yes , way to go

[bpb]

This may be splitting hairs a bit, but I think the size of the weekly cashouts is important. Or perhaps the amount wagered per week is a better measure.

For example, if you did a negative progression starting at 1 cent, and stopping for the week when you've profited by that 1 cent, then odds are you could go your entire lifetime playing without losing .. as you would need to lose 16 consecutive times before burning through your $1,000 roll. you have a better than 50/50 chance of dodging those 16 straight losses once per week for 20 years.

So, I would say, add an average weekly cashout to the problem.

[bethug]

bpb, yes or no??

[Black21Jack]

This may be splitting hairs a bit, but I think the size of the weekly cashouts is important. Or perhaps the amount wagered per week is a better measure.

For example, if you did a negative progression starting at 1 cent, and stopping for the week when you've profited by that 1 cent, then odds are you could go your entire lifetime playing without losing .. as you would need to lose 16 consecutive times before burning through your $1,000 roll. you have a better than 50/50 chance of dodging those 16 straight losses once per week for 20 years.

So, I would say, add an average weekly cashout to the problem.

Ok I see what you are saying, but without wanting to get into the betting method I will say a cashout ranging from minimum of $350.00 - maximum $1000.00 on a weekly basis, depending on whether the 'stop loss' method comes into play. Keep in mind that the player will never burn through his bankroll, it is impossible in this scenario, and even if that did happen he has cashed out $1000.00 after the first week making him break even. He is now playing with the casinos money and has recovered his $1000.00 after the first week making it zero risk.

[m249a]

Yes........profit is profit period.

[bpb]

I gave a definite no along with a clear counterexample of negative progression, starting at 1 cent, stopping at any profit. If you add an average weekly cashout figure to the problem, my answer would likely change.

[bpb]

Ok I see what you are saying, but without wanting to get into the betting method I will say a cashout ranging from minimum of $350.00 - $1000.00 on a weekly basis, depending on whether the 'stop loss' method comes into play. Keep in mind that the player will never burn through his bankroll, it is impossible in this scenario, and even if that did happen he has cashed out $1000.00 after the first week making him break even. He is now playing with the casinos money and has recovered his $1000.00 after the first week making it zero risk.

Given weekly cashouts of $350 - $1,000, never touching the original $1,000 ... then I think this would clearly demonstrate that the player is beating the house.

[Vesuvio]

Keep in mind that the player will never burn through his bankroll, it is impossible in this scenario, and even if that did happen he has cashed out $1000.00 after the first week making him break even. He is now playing with the casinos money and has recovered his $1000.00 after the first week making it zero risk.

Black21Jack - if you could cash out $350-$1000 every week for a lifetime, then by all means I'll say you've beaten the house (or you're the luckiest man alive).

Your state,emt above about having cashed out $1000 in the first week is a complete non sequitur. If I win the Major Millions jackpot this week & lose every week for the rest of my natural life but am still in profit it won't mean I've beaten the house.

Now, the problem is... there's no system known to man that will guarantee you cashing out a profit each week. The last time you posted something like this you admitted it was completely hypothetical & told me your system - which with all due respect doesn't stand a cat in hell's chance of doing what you say. So this is really a pointless discussion. But fun anway