RNG ?

**deepsky2** · 13th March 2011, 09:37 PM

How does rng really work? I know its random number generator but if casinos can set a payout percentage is it really rng. Say a casino has 96 percent pay out on slots and say by mid month they paid out 90 percent does that mean the rng is set to pay out only 6 percent for the rest of the month and if its really random why is it several spins in a row are wins and at times you can spin 1000 times and dont even get a bonus I have email a few online casino to explain this to me but no response but if your having problems making a deposit there is always help available to take your money.

**cerdikola** · 13th March 2011, 09:51 PM

I'm not a maths pro, but I think I can answer you..

RNG is completely random. Casinos can't manipulate it (then it wouldn't be random

).

The payout rate that casinos publish in their sites are just statistics of past periods of time. Casinos can't predict the exact payout that a game (excluding fixed odds games like lottery, scratch cards, etc..) will have; they just can change the prizes or game rules in order to increase or decrease casino advantage or game variance.

I suggest you to visit the Wizard Of Odds if you want to learn more about maths and casino games.

**deepsky2** · 13th March 2011, 09:56 PM

Ill check out the site

Thanks

**rainmaker** · 13th March 2011, 09:58 PM

I understand how you are thinking.

But the RTP% is based on the mathematics of the game. Imagine Blackjack in a land based casino. The game itself gives the casino a mathematic advantage. The casino does not "control" the RTP% in blackjack from month to month. It`s not possible. This will also apply for slot machines.

You have asked CS about RNG. Sadly enough, many CS representatives probably does not even know what RNG stands for.

**cerdikola** · 13th March 2011, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by rainmaker

You have asked CS about RNG. Sadly enough, many CS representatives probably does not even know what RNG stands for.

+1

Some of them have given evidence in this forum

But remember most of them are customer support people and not engineers!

**rainmaker** · 13th March 2011, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by cerdikola

+1

Some of them have given evidence in this forum

But remember most of them are customer support people and not engineers!

Agree...they are not engineers

Anyway, OP might want to ask KasinoKing about this issue. He knows a lot about RTP / RNG

**jstrike** · 14th March 2011, 02:00 AM

It's all in the game, like Rainmaker said. The house has an advantage without needing to screw with the RNG. It's all about the payback odds. No RNG should ever be programmed. It doesn't know what it's making random numbers for. It just picks a random series of numbers.

Take a really simple example and you'll see how it works. Let's say there's an online wheel of fortune with 10 possible spots it can land on. None of those spots pay anything except for one, and that spot pays 9:1. There's no house edge in this game because every time you spin the wheel you lose $1, and one out of ten times you get your $1 back plus $9. The way casinos make money is whenever there's a situation like this, they change the spot to pay 8:1. That would give the casino an edge of 10%.

When it comes time to spin the wheel, the wheel program just says to the RNG, give me a random number. The RNG is constantly running through thousands of numbers. It says, okay, here, and it spits out a number between let's say 1 and 16 million. Let's say that number is 245,493. The wheel program then goes 245493%10...meaning it realizes 245,493 is too high a number so it divides by the highest number it's looking for (10) and takes the remainder. The remainder is 3 in this case. So it spins the wheel the the 3rd position, and then figures out if that position is the winner.

A casino can rig a game, but it can't really rig an RNG itself. Take that situation. The RNG doesn't know what it spit a number out for, it doesn't know how many digits the wheel is looking for, it doesn't know what each position would pay. The RNG is basically just a dumb thing that's constantly running through random numbers and spitting them out for games. If a casino wanted to rig the game I'm talking about, what they'd do is this:

Wheel asks the RNG for a number. RNG says 3. Wheel says, okay, 3. Then the wheel runs a piece of bad code some casino guy put in there and says, oh shit, 3 is a winning number. Pick again. RNG says, 3, again, randomly. The wheel says okay, we tried once, this time we let it go through and the guy wins. It's called double dealing.

But the casino doesn't need to rig the game either. They just need to set the odds to 8:1 on that winning spin, and they're going to make a solid 10% over time.

Hope this kinda explains things, if you got more questions about the actual programming of these things I'd be glad to tell you as much as I know about it.

**jstrike** · 14th March 2011, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by rainmaker

The casino does not "control" the RTP% in blackjack from month to month. It`s not possible. This will also apply for slot machines.

one thing about this, RM. The casinos can change weights on slots to influence RTP in most cases without notifying the players. They can do this by changing actual payouts (the right way) or just by changing the weights on certain reel items (the wrong way). Both of those things add up to expected payback, but if they changed the hidden weight of an item there would be no way to prove it without thousands of test spins.

**rainmaker** · 14th March 2011, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by jstrike

one thing about this, RM. The casinos can change weights on slots to influence RTP in most cases without notifying the players. They can do this by changing actual payouts (the right way) or just by changing the weights on certain reel items (the wrong way). Both of those things add up to expected payback, but if they changed the hidden weight of an item there would be no way to prove it without thousands of test spins.

Thanks for pointing that out

It was a bit clumsy written from my side.

But anyway...I am still waiting for your casino to open

**KasinoKing** · 14th March 2011, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by jstrike

A casino can rig a game, but it can't really rig an RNG itself. Take that situation. The RNG doesn't know what it spit a number out for, it doesn't know how many digits the wheel is looking for, it doesn't know what each position would pay. The RNG is basically just a dumb thing that's constantly running through random numbers and spitting them out for games. If a casino wanted to rig the game I'm talking about, what they'd do is this:

Wheel asks the RNG for a number. RNG says 3. Wheel says, okay, 3. Then the wheel runs a piece of bad code some casino guy put in there and says, oh shit, 3 is a winning number. Pick again. RNG says, 3, again, randomly. The wheel says okay, we tried once, this time we let it go through and the guy wins. It's called double dealing.

But the casino doesn't need to rig the game either. They just need to set the odds to 8:1 on that winning spin, and they're going to make a solid 10% over time.

Hope this kinda explains things, if you got more questions about the actual programming of these things I'd be glad to tell you as much as I know about it.

I could not have explained it better myself!

KK