Casinos that groom you to get use to losing

[blacklabrador]

I was thinking this morning about how bad its become with certain online casinos. Rewind 5 years ago, all of you, and think about your cashout percentages as opposed to the last 12 months. Sickening, isn't it? I remember having months where I would hit 4 or 5 Royal flushes . Whats even sadder is that people continue to play on sites just because their games are unique, or they have excellent customer service, or pay out within 24 hours instead of 48 hours. Does any of that really matter if you only cash out one out of every 20 deposits? Do you really want to continue pissing money away because you have fun in a chat room, or because u think that random jackpot is due? Losing should not be the norm and people that continue to deposit on tight casinos are just accepting it as if it is the norm, like brainwashing.

When it comes to RTG sites, its 100% clear as day that the payouts on slots and video poker have gone South in the last 6 months, yet, you guessed it, people continue to deposit on RTG sites. Why? Why waste your time sitting there spinning 3-4 hundred spins only to win $2.75 cents when you do manage to get the bonus round? How is that enjoyable? The only way to put these casinos 6 feet under is to stop feeding these vultures. The only casinos I can feel good about depositing on and winning are Bellerock group, and English Harbour group. I use to play on Grand Bay but they switched software, anyone play on there? Weren't they rogued for something or am I thinking of someone else?

Anyhow, this site has both helped me and hurt me unfortunately. The way it helped is basically just sharing all out experiences on different kinds of games, software, etc etc. How it hurt was I dabbled on other casinos because I heard good things about them and I would have been better off not downloading them. Thank god I got off RTG months ago when I smelled something fishy after not cashing out on 20 something straight deposits. (And thats not a matter of me not knowing when to hit that cashout button, if I deposit $100 and run it into 4-500, Im cashing out.)

Before depositing next time in a casino that you continually lose on, just un-install the damn thing and deposit it on a casino that u do well at , even if you have been running bad.

 

[silcnlayc]

blacklabrador Casinos that groom you to get use to losing

I think you put the whole thing in a nutshell quite well. I believe you might have hit the nail on the head with this. Grooming...an interesting word to apply to what has been going on...yes, I like that word applied to the online casinos of today. Many are in a downward spiral...and are accepting it more and more...why? Interesting.

.

 

[plasticnote]

Hi, I knew your feeling. I start online back to 2002 ~ 2003. Those good days were long gone. We used to play and had a fair chance to win. These days we just pay the money to buy a "win".

 

[petro]

I think I know what casino blacklabrador is talking about.

I wrote an email to the manager saying that I wouldn't play at a casino with such a low return to player.

I made it very kind and pointed out exactly the areas which I felt were the problem.

No reply of course.

I think that the only type of players they are interested in are the stupid ones willing to throw their money away.

Anyone looking for a fair chance to win just gets ignored.

 

[HadEnouth]

All online casios are rogue and crooks pretending to be above board. They always claim they cant be rogue as they are audited and have a licence. That dont mean nothing, Anyone can buy a licence, There is no true gambling regulation, That why there is so many stories of none payment for the stupid of reasons. Even when you win, you lose.

All online casinos are lieing about there return payout % pretentage. Dont take anyone with half a brain to see whats going on with them these days.

They all have become very greedy and the only thing you can be sure off, is lose lose lose lose lose lose lose and so on.

LADBROKES ARE A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF CROOKS, hence why they make so much profit every year. If a true audit was done of these casinos and all the so called big winners had to expose themselfs, You be shocked to find just how little the payback % is and how many of those so called big winners are insiders.

 

[CANADAMAN99]

I fully agree with the above statements. Even the accredited online casinos have become criminal in their payout percentages. I personally have decided to stop playing altogether until a casino comes along that offers fair play. It is very evident that the "accredited" RTG casino I play at has become just as rougue as the one's you all are playing at.

Some of the things I've seen recently are:

1. Less and lower features when betting higher amounts. After years of playing online I sometimes take the insane bonuses of "deposite 100 bucks and we'll gve you 500!" which the casino tacks on insane playthrough amounts. Amounts so high you would have too hit many random jackpots to even come close to reaching. When I get these insane features I always bet higher and the results are disasterous. Only when I'm low rolling on .25 or .50 do I ever hit features that are worth a damn. I also see that when I am lowrolling I hit many more features. In my opinion the casino can change the odds on the games at will.

2. I have spent 12K+ with the casino I play at and never hit anykind of random jackpot. The most I have won was a $600 spin which was great but besides that out of 30,000-40,000+ spins i have never hit a jackpot. When I used to play at Party Casino I remember seeing that jackpot box pop up at least 3-4 times. The casino I play at doesn't actually pay the jackpots and if they do I must be one of the unluckiest people in the world.

3. The slots are rigged. Sometimes the way they hit change and this throws off gameplay. I have no doubt that there has been many many times where a feature should have been triggered but the software prevented it.

4. The comps have become miserable. I deposited close to 1K this holiday season and my comps were in the 20-25 dollar range. That was what was great about my casino before is that they took care of their lousy gameplay with wonderful customer service and comps. That is no more and is one of the straws that broke the camels back. You can read one of my recent posts praising them for how great their comp program is but since that post things have changed and gone incredibly downhill.

Until we all decide we've had enough the criminal activity will continue. These casinos do not care about us as customers and will continue to stretch the winning lower and lower as time goes on.

As for me, I've had enough. I'm done and I can safely say that they don't give a crap about losing a long time player. I would love to find a casino that offers real odds. After going to Vegas over the holidays I got to see what honest gameplay looked like. The games we play and the casinos we play at online are far from honest. It's such a shame that these casinos have become so rougue because if they just loosened their belts a little bit they would continue to gain players and in the long run probably be better off.

 

[SlotMonster]

I REALLY suggest you to play at casinos with Randomness Control
This feature ruins all attempts to prove online casino is cheating

 

[silcnlayc]

SlotMonster I REALLY suggest you to play at casinos with Randomness Control
This feature ruins all attempts to prove online casino is cheating

Hmmmm...can you expand on this....


.

 

[Nifty29]

There is nothing wrong with complaining about losing - everybody does it in varying degrees. What better place to express your emotions than a forum full of fellow gamblers?

The problem arises when people start throwing around completely baseless and unfounded accusations about particular casinos. Nothing even resembling evidence or fact is offered up, other than "I lost - they're all crooks!!"

I love a real conspiracy. I've never been someone who accepts something just 'because'. I base my views on my own experiences, and my view is that there are other factors involved in why some players feel they are losing more (or possibly ARE losing more) than they did 5 years ago.

The main difference from back then is the bonus terms. We all took bonuses on most of our deposits because you could get 5xDB in many places which gave us a good chance of coming out ahead. I made some good money back then, and I know others who made a hell of a lot more. It is possible, combined with a reasonable suggestion that RTP may have been reduced across the board, that players who once did quite well out of online casinos now find themselves in a different boat.

Do I believe that the major software providers cheat? No, because they don't have to cheat. The house edge, along with 30xDB+ bonus terms excluding just about every game except slots, ensures the casino will make lots of money. When you also add in factors such as bankroll management (plays a more important part than you think) and choice of game (variance etc), it shows that the reason some players are winning more than others (or losing less) may be a lot closer to home.

Players who state that particular casinos are 'crooks' and that they 'brainwash' players based solely on the fact that they didn't win there just make themselves look like unreasonable ranters especially when they do it at just about every opportunity.

The most illogical aspect about those who carry on with the 'all casinos are rigged' mantra is that you will see them post a day or two later about how they played at an online casino If you honestly think they are all crooks and cheats, and you continue to play, it either says something about you, or your opinion in the first place.

I would certainly respect a person who didn't deposit another cent because they came to the conclusion they were being cheated. I don't have any for someone who just keeps playing - they are being ripped off with their own 'permission'.

 

[Pulver]

For once I have to agree with what you are saying Nifty...

Having 1 or even 10 loosing sessions in a row isn't making the games rigged. And I think people should refrain from posting that well respected casinos are rigged just because they have never won there. I know how it feels, I have lost thousands myself at times and sweared that the whole thing is rigged from here to India. But then you get sessions where you just can't loose... It is also important to face the fact that we are playing with an edge against us. If we play enough spins, we are destined to loose in the end.

That being said! I do however believe that some RTG casinos have lowered their RTP on slots. That is not the same as saying they are rigged. But a slot with a 90% RTP will eat your money pretty fast..

 

[ksech]

Before depositing next time in a casino that you continually lose on, just un-install the damn thing and deposit it on a casino that u do well at , even if you have been running bad.

Isn't this statement a tad redundant? We all know you are a fan of English Harbour and Riverbelle, you "throw them" in everyones' face every chance you get. Many do not have a wide selection of choices on where they can play, so yes, some are/and will continue to play on the RTG platform.

Well, according to your opening statement, most of the members here are brainwashed because they play on a platform YOU (and some others) feel are cheating players. Yes, 5 years ago, odds were better for a chance to win, but take into consideration the UIGEA. I believe it had a huge impact on the online gaming community.

That being said, I stopped playing completely 4.5 months ago. Closed accounts and unistalled ALL casinos. It didn't matter which platform I chose to play on, they all were "tight", IMO. My last decent win was from Royal Joker for a little over 1k, but then I was switched to the US facing clone and nothing but donations. Slotocash was my Rival of choice, but even going 600+ spins on Hole-In-One without a feature was frustrating. And as for RTG I played on Intertops Red, I had small wins, but nothing to write home about ( if I deposited $25 I would cashout at $50), but even doubling my deposit was beginning to become a nightmare.

Then, I stopped receiving the little "gifts" every so often from the casinos I was loyal to. Chasing after them for birthday gifts or holiday gifts made me feel "small" and petulant for having to ask. So, until something happens with legislation, I will spend my money elsewhere.

I'm thinking a trip to the Indian reservation is starting to look good...

 

[plasticnote]

...Yes, 5 years ago, odds were better for a chance to win,...

I just want to point out that for certain types of games, odds changing is more or less equal to "rigged".

 

[ksech]

You've misinterpreted what I was trying to say. When I say odds were better, perhaps I should have said chances were better. I, myself, had more chances of winning playing at full blown MG casinos, where my choices of games weren't cut in half. I lost the majority of my favorites when I was transported to the US clone. I don't feel the games are "rigged" per se, just with fewer people playing a particular slot, if the software counts spins/game NOT spins per player, then it will take longer to reach a feature.

Say before, you had 25 people spinning 100 times on Fruit Frenzy. Now you have 10, if the software counts the spins per game before a feature is triggered, the game has to account for the lost spins (1500) of 15 people. So, that will "up" the remaining people to 250 spins. (Am I making sense?)

BUT, I'm no slots genius, so MY theory may not be valid. And I don't recall ever reading where the number of spins required for a feature to hit was based on spin/player vs spin/game.

 

[all4greed]

Slotocash was my Rival of choice, but even going 600+ spins on Hole-In-One without a feature was frustrating.

What was the point in that? To see when and if you would get the bonus? I don't understand why people play a game with no bonus showing up in hundreds and hundreds of spins unless they are getting good hits along the way.

 

[ksech]

That was actually in 3 different sessions combined count, sorry for the confusion. If I didn't hit after 100 - 200 spins I moved on to a different game. I always counted spins for each game I played (yes, I know it's weird). But I wanted to see how long it would take, but then I was thinking perhaps the "counter" was reset each time I redeposited. Or with fewer people playing on the Rival platforms due to problems within the white label community it was taking more and more spins/player to finally hit a feature.
(I'm rambling, sorry. I think it's time for some shuteye, before I make a complete imbecile of myself).

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

I don't feel the games are "rigged" per se, just with fewer people playing a particular slot, if the software counts spins/game NOT spins per player, then it will take longer to reach a feature.

But I wanted to see how long it would take, but then I was thinking perhaps the "counter" was reset each time I redeposited..

aren't we told that they are random?

not random = rigged in my book



sorry for quoting you.

 

[3mptyseat]

Let call a spade a spade.

Hey guys! Hope the New Year finds you all well.

Now, friends, lets be a little more clear. For anyone to suggest that all casinos are rogue or criminal is ridiculous. I will point to the charitable donations of many of the best casinos in the world both land based and here in cyber-hell. I would also point to a simple fact; Us gamblers all know of a casino we trust and would play at, if the circumstances were safe. (BTW: IGT's internet label, Wagerworks, has never had a 'rogue' casino amongst their licencee's, and most of their sites have great payout percentages.) To make a blanket statement whilst opining is ur right, but it is evidence of a narrow scope or an emotional bias.
Variance is a bitch, and when it goes bad, its seems to drag and drag. And when its good, its just a blur and then it's over, and so many of us don't rememeber these times. Not to mention more than a few of us have trouble 'finding the cashout' button, and I am at the top of that perilous list so don't think I'm calling anyone out.
But to suggest that because a publicly traded company turns a profit in this industry, they are guilty of something, is IMHO, absolutely ridiculous. Every casino with good management and a happy customer base using fair technology with payout rates of up to 98 percent should be able to stay afloat playing within normal rules and reg's as imposed by the NGC or the body that regulates the High Streets. I personally believe that given the lack of overhead an internet casino has in comparison to the brick and mortar joints, its just a circumstance of this over saturated marketplace combined with regulatory absence or apathy that has 'groomed' us into accepting the current payback %'s.
I will argue that suggesting, for example, that Ladbrokes, is involved in criminal activity is irresponsible and un-researched at best. At worst its evidence of... well you all know where sensational 'blasting' originates from. And generally it's born of a bias forged in the furnace of emotional distress.
I suggest this bc they have such large holdings worldwide most of which are not casino based, but rather, in the Horse racing marketplace. With these holdings being old, trusted, and in the tens of billions of dollars I would assert its rather unlikely they are messing around with 'rigged' software. I guess the post blasting Ladbrokes believes that all profitable casinos are criminal, so I think on that point, I will rest my case. {But if you need more: see below *}
I know that regardless of what anyone says, the payouts are down at loads of places and most likely, any casino serving the US. That is obvious and to me it begs the question 'why?'
As a response to the payment processing hurdles that the US govt. created, the casinos which elected to remain in the huge but uncertain marketplace had two choices in my opinion, if they were going to continue to serve their US clients: They could A) accept that lower amounts of deposits were going to come in and lower profits could be diminishing, and attempt to stay afloat by keeping their good name in tact and hoping the powers that be regulate quickly, or, B) Change their business model and recoup the missing revenue from the existing marketplace by some means or another. In other words: Lower payout percentages, or start enforcing T&C conditions to the "T", or create rules as situations present themselves leaving room for the voiding of wins, or 'rig' the games, or double charge on deposits, or void winnings just BC, or other things.

Not all of those listed are illegal or criminal acts, but my point is, there is no other way for a business to react to a marketplace change as significant and changing as that of the barriers the US govt imposed. And so the casinos that were smart left the US. And the others remained. Legitimate casinos had to either change their model, accept the diminished returns, or leave the marketplace, there is no fourth option.

We are blaming the casinos first and foremost and thats normal because they are our point of contact. When they stop taking Visa cards bc the govt. closes down a network of processors, they never admit that to us, they just admit to 'down processors' and point us to another method. We get mad at the casino and tell them as much and so they look for another option. They find yet another processor and it works for awhile, but the revenue seems to be getting smaller, less deposits are coming in. Some clients are not willing to risk their money in this type of a marketplace. And then the new processor goes down. Well when that happens a few times, you can bet that bottom dollar that the pop-up processors are gonna start charging more. And eventually the casinos are forced to deal with the same problem; Stay legit and eventually quit, or continue to change the model. I would assert that generally the casinos are not guilty of much more than survival techniques and in the rogue cases, opportunism. Rogue casinos are in business only bc of a marketplace that prohibits what they pretend to offer; a fair place to gamble. They made their model to exploit the high demand and low supply of a marketplace with no regulations and a ruling body saying "No operators please, we need time to figure out how to tax you. If you do operate we might close ur processor, oh, and btw, if u want a license in the future when we do pull our head out of are ass, get ready for fines. That is in effect what the U.S. has said to the casinos operators.

In fact, this climate is born of the heavy handed rule by draconian govt's and the money hungry lawmakers and bureaucrats that run the various enforcement agencies with in these govt's. As these bodies run around seizing funds and using political power to convince other govt's to help (research the EWX case if you need more on that subject) they have been imposing unnatural restrictions on our free will and on the marketplace we have gathered here at CM to discuss.
And these restrictions when coupled with a lack of regulation have led to the birth and eventual maturity of the 'rogue operators'. But these restrictions did something else; They led to the diminishing returns and decreased profits of the honest operators, the same ones complained about in the OP of this thread.

So I ask those who believe so passionately that these casinos are raking in huge profits by lowering payouts, and 'scamming' us to ask themselves a few questions;

• Is it possible that these casinos are in fact trying to survive in the face of uncertain futures and unpredictable governments?
  
• Is it possible these casinos were not making 'huge' profits to being with?
  
• And if so, Is it possible that we are quick to point the blame at the operators without letting any of it to fall with their counterparts in shame, the governments that have forced market conditions to its current status?

{*For Ladbrokes (or any casino group with similar holdings) to be cheating on their internet division (potentially the most lucrative market yet-to-be fully recognized and developed) would be bad and frankly, stupid, business for any gaming company when the inevitable exposure by the likes of Julian Assange leaked the damaging info to the punting public. That in turn would lead to less profits. And that would be bad for shareholders. And publicly traded companies with upset shareholders are companies no more.
Also, look at the strategy of the worlds biggest and best gaming groups; they all are no where to be found in the US marketplace. Why? BC current political conditions and one vaguely written law making banks guilty of a fine-able crime when assisting in payment processing of casino transactions from the US have led to an atmosphere that is bad for profit making.}

 

[funeral979]

I can buy the fact that RTP's have been lowered, and less people are playing, so that would account for alot of people experiencing much tighter slots. I myself find the slots paying out more or less the same as they have for the past 7 years.

But what bugs me is video poker, and to a lesser extent, blackjack. From 2003-2006 I hit 7 or 8 single line royal flushes. I have hit none since then. I still play the same amount of video poker now than I did back then. So what has changed here? Of course it could just be dumb luck. After all, you cannot change the RTP of video poker rolleyes:......yes, this discussion again).

And blackjack....it doesn't feel right. It never used to be perfect. But I was able to get winning sessions with it on a regular basis. I know there are others who feel the same negativity that I do towards BJ (Westland Bowl, 4OAK). I have no proof, but it just feels really really wrong. You see so many threads questioning the fairness of online blackjack....are we all wrong? Just because we have no proof?

At any rate, it stands to reason that if slot RTP's were lowered at so many places (insert my opinion), then SOMETHING was also probably done to other games (insert my conspiracy theory).

 

[Seventh777]

aren't we told that they are random?

not random = rigged in my book

As I have stressed more times than I care to mention regarding the randomness that is the RNG Gods, play TSII at any casino for long enough and the last achievement needed will always be 5 scatters, as I am unreliably told that ofc it will be as it`s the hardest to hit, then okay, with this thought in mind, why do you hit 5 Thors before 5 nines sometimes or 5 Odins before 4 tens, this is randomness in it`s purest form.

It is IMHO that hitting the hardest achievement (5 scatters) unlocks the door of hitting 4-5 reels in the Wildstorm feature, when TSII was released I played it nigh on every single day, over the course of the day I would hit on average at least 5-10 x4 scatters, multiply this by x7 that`s around 35 to 70 per week over the course of 3 months that`s well over 300 absolute minimum, how many characters on each reel?, say 50, there`s at least 2 scatters per reel having a chance of hitting one of the 3 slots on the reel - odds of a little over 8-1 of hitting the 5th when you have 4.

Randomness they say, lmfao .

 

[GrandMaster]

I REALLY suggest you to play at casinos with Randomness Control
This feature ruins all attempts to prove online casino is cheating

We had this before: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/32-red-randomness-shoe-games.28066/

 

[Jufo]

We had this before: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/32-red-randomness-shoe-games.28066/

And I replied to it.

 

[Deeplay]

It is IMHO that hitting the hardest achievement (5 scatters) unlocks the door of hitting 4-5 reels in the Wildstorm feature, ....
Randomness they say, lmfao .

I have not read or heard anywhere that getting all achievments will unlock some kind of chance at 4 or 5 wild reels on the WS feature. I might be wrong but if this was the case then this would have been advertised as 1 of the features. I think its nothing more than a gimmick or as they say to track past wins. Nice idea though if it did unlock somthing else on this game.

 

[blacklabrador]

Isn't this statement a tad redundant? We all know you are a fan of English Harbour and Riverbelle, you "throw them" in everyones' face every chance you get. Many do not have a wide selection of choices on where they can play, so yes, some are/and will continue to play on the RTG platform.

Well, according to your opening statement, most of the members here are brainwashed because they play on a platform YOU (and some others) feel are cheating players. Yes, 5 years ago, odds were better for a chance to win, but take into consideration the UIGEA. I believe it had a huge impact on the online gaming community.

That being said, I stopped playing completely 4.5 months ago. Closed accounts and unistalled ALL casinos. It didn't matter which platform I chose to play on, they all were "tight", IMO. My last decent win was from Royal Joker for a little over 1k, but then I was switched to the US facing clone and nothing but donations. Slotocash was my Rival of choice, but even going 600+ spins on Hole-In-One without a feature was frustrating. And as for RTG I played on Intertops Red, I had small wins, but nothing to write home about ( if I deposited $25 I would cashout at $50), but even doubling my deposit was beginning to become a nightmare.

Then, I stopped receiving the little "gifts" every so often from the casinos I was loyal to. Chasing after them for birthday gifts or holiday gifts made me feel "small" and petulant for having to ask. So, until something happens with legislation, I will spend my money elsewhere.

I'm thinking a trip to the Indian reservation is starting to look good...

If me saying that those 2 casinos are a good place to play at is "throwing it in your face" then so be it. I simply want everyone that is on this board to have a fair chance at winning and stop supporting these other casinos that are complained about on a daily basis. People work too hard for their money to get ripped off by greedy online casinos, sorry. If I was on the outside looking in and I saw a couple individuals talking about a certain casino on a regular basis, I would think that would be enough to get me to download that sucker and give it a try.

That being said, does anyone play Funky Chicken on English Harbour? It's one of my new favorites, I got the 10X multiplier the other day but was wondering if there is a higher one, I am still fairly new at the game and if I remember correctly, the instructions on the game didnt mention the highest multiplier. Also I would like to hear others favorite games on there, I play mostly video poker but I have played a little slots recently . I still havent even played half the games on there, theres alot of em. Triple Triple Gold is a tight machine but seems like u can win a ton on there if you play at the right time.

I still cant believe they havent changed the format on bet amounts. I mean from $1.25 a spin to $6.25?

 

[dominique]

A multilpier of 10 is the highest I have seen in funky chicken.. doesn't mean there isn't a higher one.

You see the same type threads all over the affiiliate communities these days. Affiliates end up paying for everything now, from bonuses to jackpots to processing seizure losses.

Breach of contract is becoming more frequent - casinos saying: "yes we know we said we would pay you xx, but we changed our mind and you only get x."

I'd like to see that happening in the brick and mortar world. Lawsuits would abound.

That said, I think payouts for players are still better online than in Vegas - online it is still possible to win substantially, at least at some casinos. In Vegas I have never won anything, it just drains your pockets and throws a little consolation prize every now and then.

I do view gambling as mere entertainment, but without decent wins periodically it's no fun and not even entertaining anymore.

 

[Rusty]

There is nothing wrong with complaining about losing - everybody does it in varying degrees. What better place to express your emotions than a forum full of fellow gamblers?

The problem arises when people start throwing around completely baseless and unfounded accusations about particular casinos. Nothing even resembling evidence or fact is offered up, other than "I lost - they're all crooks!!"

I love a real conspiracy. I've never been someone who accepts something just 'because'. I base my views on my own experiences, and my view is that there are other factors involved in why some players feel they are losing more (or possibly ARE losing more) than they did 5 years ago.

The main difference from back then is the bonus terms. We all took bonuses on most of our deposits because you could get 5xDB in many places which gave us a good chance of coming out ahead. I made some good money back then, and I know others who made a hell of a lot more. It is possible, combined with a reasonable suggestion that RTP may have been reduced across the board, that players who once did quite well out of online casinos now find themselves in a different boat.

Do I believe that the major software providers cheat? No, because they don't have to cheat. The house edge, along with 30xDB+ bonus terms excluding just about every game except slots, ensures the casino will make lots of money. When you also add in factors such as bankroll management (plays a more important part than you think) and choice of game (variance etc), it shows that the reason some players are winning more than others (or losing less) may be a lot closer to home.

Players who state that particular casinos are 'crooks' and that they 'brainwash' players based solely on the fact that they didn't win there just make themselves look like unreasonable ranters especially when they do it at just about every opportunity.

The most illogical aspect about those who carry on with the 'all casinos are rigged' mantra is that you will see them post a day or two later about how they played at an online casino If you honestly think they are all crooks and cheats, and you continue to play, it either says something about you, or your opinion in the first place.

I would certainly respect a person who didn't deposit another cent because they came to the conclusion they were being cheated. I don't have any for someone who just keeps playing - they are being ripped off with their own 'permission'.

While agree with you about baseless accusations I find it somewhat ironic that you then use such a baseless argument to prove these accusations wrong.
It is one that has been used many times before and one I have often hit out of the park but still like a bad egg it keeps bobbing up as an argument for why casinos don't cheat - it's a crock of shit of course and here is why yet again.

Your logic.
Casinos have house edge > therefore they are guaranteed profit > therefore they don't have to cheat > therefore all casinos are honest.

Can anyone spot the flaws in this logic for Nifty?
Yes, you at the back?
What's that?
Some casinos have been proven to be dishonest?
Some software has been proven to be less than above board?
An "honest" casino can have 65% RTP?

Sometimes you come across as real shill Nifty

 

[Achenar]

[QUOTECan anyone spot the flaws in this logic for Nifty?
Yes, you at the back?
What's that?
Some casinos have been proven to be dishonest?
Some software has been proven to be less than above board?
An "honest" casino can have 65% RTP?

Sometimes you come across as real shill Nifty[/QUOTE]

Funny you says this RUSTY i wonder myself.I was reading this and thought the same.Im not here to be rude but sometimes the facts are harder to believe then fiction.

 

[Nifty29]

I didn't say that all casinos were honest.

I said that the idea that all casinos are rigged is incorrect IMO.

You obviously missed the part where I made it clear I was referring to the MAJOR software providers. I.e RTG mg wagerworks wagerlogic rival. The only one I might be less than 100% sure about is rival as there has been some anecdotal evidence that tampering with games during play may be possible.

Casinos that use these platforms may be dishonest,but that is a different issue. We are talking about the games here not the operators. You and I both know there have been dodgy operations running RTG for example - doesn't mean RTG software cheats.

I'm a shill? For whom? Every casino? You and I may not see eye-to-eye on things, but I thought you were above that kind of cheap shot.

 

[Rusty]

I didn't say that all casinos were honest.

I said that the idea that all casinos are rigged is incorrect IMO.

You obviously missed the part where I made it clear I was referring to the MAJOR software providers. I.e RTG mg wagerworks wagerlogic rival. The only one I might be less than 100% sure about is rival as there has been some anecdotal evidence that tampering with games during play may be possible.

Casinos that use these platforms may be dishonest,but that is a different issue. We are talking about the games here not the operators. You and I both know there have been dodgy operations running RTG for example - doesn't mean RTG software cheats.

I'm a shill? For whom? Every casino? You and I may not see eye-to-eye on things, but I thought you were above that kind of cheap shot.

I didn't say you were a shill, I aid you sometimes come across as one.

As you know there is sometimes little distinction between a software provider and the casino that uses the software but that is another story.
You are quite right to backtrack but you and I know the implication of your argument was that Casinos don't cheat since in that same sentence you use such terms as house edge and bonus WR, both Casino specific.

I would also argue about your evaluation of RTG being fair.
How can a software company with absolutely no regard for whom it sells its software to and even less for its end users be considered honest and fair?
Just the opposite is true in fact - they have proven themselves to have a complete lack of integrity by continuing to supply known rogues and crooks
with their product while idly sitting by as people are ripped off.

Rival and RTG are both rogue software suppliers and it really is no coincidence that nearly every casino "licensed" by these suppliers is licensed in a Mickey Mouse jurisdiction. The majority being in Costa Rica or Curacao.
Actually I don't think either has a single casino licensed by whitelisted regulatory body.
Food for thought?
I have my problems with MGS too but they and wagerworks are about as close as we have got to honest software.

As I say, you are right to say baseless accusations should not be made and it is fair that this forum should have balance and that be pointed out from time to time but it is just plain wrong (purposeful or otherwise) to make the argument that Casinos or software are fair because they should turn a profit in the long run.

Also remember that many online Casinos are operated on a shoestring budget - the fair ones risk going bust but the rogues have no such worries.