I'm Done With Online Gambling

[thelawnet]

There is a big contrast between land-based casinos where you can see the cards being shuffled and drawn from the shoe and the online casinos where you don't and you are supposed to trust them to deal you a fair game.

The games are all designed to win for the house. If I shuffle cards in front of you but offer you 1:2 odds on a 1:1 shot, then that's not a fairer game than online gambling with 99.5% payback.

Online casinos are computerized and as such they will analyze your betting strategy and make strategic adjustments in anticipation to your moves.

Wrong.

This is not random to the extent that real shuffled cards are.

It would be non-random, true. But it doesn't happen, not with major casino software anyway.

With knowledge of how you bet and your bet amount before the cards are dealt, the result will be likely in favor of the online casino even though cards drawn will still meet the definition of "fair and random."

Example?

I do much better in land casinos using some of the same strategies I used online. I know of others who experienced the same thing.

Land casinos are much slower, you probably pay many fewer hands. With few hands played the house edge is not as significant as if you play for hours online, by which time you're almost certain to lose.

But I know there are those who would disagree with me. That's fine with me. I would just say look at what you are facing when gambling online: software that analyzes your strategy and the virtual cards, wheel or dice; optimizing software that favors the online casino while maintaining appearances of fairness.

Am I supposed to take your word on this, or do you have any evidence at all?

I've had enough of it. I'm quitting while way ahead.

I thought it wasn't fair. How come you are ahead?

If regulation comes in US, I'll be reviewing government auditors methodology and procedures of how they determine a fair online game.

For now, the reality is the online casino holds the cards, hidden from you. If land-based casinos did that, there would be far fewer land casinos. Think about it.

People play video poker and video blackjack quite happily in land casinos. If the table games aren't allowed, the machines do just fine.

[same_old]

I personally dont have any issues with Westlands initial post.

He is speaking from HIS OWN experience here and anyone that knows of westland knows he is a BJ player through and through.

The Gael Wind software was the same software whee he won $34,000 on BJ with only a $200 deposit.The caisno didnt want to pay him as they thought he was reading cards and or had kind of play that wasnt getting him to lose- either way the accusation was bullshit and backed up by the software provider who are the ones who ended up paying westland, not the casino.

I myself trust and believe his post here as he is an avid BJ player and would know these things.

West isnt the sort of person to make up stuf and come out with it- im sure it has taken him a while to come to this conclusion.

LOL- you want to get NASh involved here do you??, his BJ sessions are a lot worse than westlands so im sure he would have a lot more to say about this as well.

I know in the past NASH has had some issues with some casino's and his BJ play and he is one customer you do want playing with you. he is a whale of of a punter.

Please still come around here everynow and then Westland, your a good family boy with good values so please stick around at least.

[Westland Bowl]

.........Am I supposed to take your word on this, or do you have any evidence at all?

I'm offering my opinion based on years of playing online. I've won quite a fair amount using various strategies including those from Cipher. I was consistently winning with a few smaller losses. To show the "evidence", it would take demonstrating by my side play over a thousand hands to show repeated suspicious plays. To understand what I see requires you understand my strategy which incorporates speadsheets, tracking the results, money management and various betting strategies depending upon what the casino is doing. It would be too much to show in this forum. So it's just my opinion I'm offering. Perhaps I'll show how I won over $30,000 from Heroes Casino someday.

I thought it wasn't fair. How come you are ahead?

Blackjack IS quite beatable, provided you are using strategies that bets higher when the cards are flowing your way and bets lower when it's not. It is (WAS) easier to do this online when the minimum bet is only a $1. Including my wins from Heroes Casino, I'd say I'm ahead about $45,000 (all gone to paying off debts and getting necessities.)

People play video poker and video blackjack quite happily in land casinos. If the table games aren't allowed, the machines do just fine.

Video blackjack located within the land casino isn't the same as online casino blackjack. I've found video blackjack a little different than a regular real blackjack table but not too much. Perhaps the fact that you can complain about any perceived unfairness to the casino itself right there to casino management ensures that they make sure the video cards are random as much as possible. Online casinos are located far away and any perceived unfairness is considered to only exist in your mind.

[3mptyseat]

I would just say look at what you are facing when gambling online: software that analyzes your strategy and the virtual cards, wheel or dice; optimizing software that favors the online casino while maintaining appearances of fairness.

Is there any empirical evidence to support this? Anyone?

I will agree that when money is involved, very few people in an industry as 'wild west' as this one could maintain their integrity given options for illegitimate but guaranteed profit increases. So I support the OP claim that some casinos online are not fair. I know I have some stats a few places that are statistically anomalies if the RNG at the sites in question are indeed random... That being said, statistical anomalies happen all the time. And sometimes, events transpire that might be described as 'a million to one'; and then they are followed immed. by another such event. Variance is a wicked bitch!

I just wish IGT and the US govt would make a deal and wagerworks could enter this marketplace...

[takethemoney]

I'm up about $8500 at land based casinos this year. I don't want to keep repeating how many losing deposits I've had at RTG online casinos this year. I have zero wins there and anyone who has such an experience would eventually come to believe that the network of this software has my number and it's just not going to happen, no matter how many deposits. So, I have curtailed my online gaming and make 3 trips, on average, per month, to the Indian casino an hour away from me.

[silcnlayc]

pokeraddict:You do realize that when you play -EV games you're going to lose, right? Blaming the software or the casino isn't the answer. Online gambling is entertainment, PERIOD! The same goes for B&M. You aren't going to make a living playing casino games if there is any house edge. It sounds like you don't get that.

Since you state that :Online gambling is entertainment, PERIOD!...I will stand right there with my hand out every time you make a withdrawal if you make one at all anymore...because you are not playing to win anything...so why bother playing for real money or withdrawing and keeping any winnings that you stumble upon accidently when someone that plays to win is sitting right beside you?

Gamblers do not play for ENTERTAINMENT...that is a fallacy...a folklore...something to quote that has been repeated down the line so one can feel better about the "losses" incurred while "entertaining" themselves.... because there is a lot cheaper type of entertainment out there to be had...again, it is called denial..I know I play to win...I play to win big if I eve got that chance...the entertianment factor is the bonus if one does win...so...if you play for entertainment...you can do that for FREE! No complaining allowed...please remember this when you continue to lose...because you explicity said you play for entertainment ,yes, while others play to win I believe...

thelawnet:Am I supposed to take your word on this, or do you have any evidence at all?

But yet you ask us to take yours and others words without eveidence it is not happening? Can't have it both ways...Prove they are on the up and up....give us "proof" they are all legit....I mean, it must be easy since so many state they are...and nothing has changed as so many continue this old line....when many others KNOW things have changed..

So prove they haven't....can't, can you, or for that matter can anyone else...just as we cannot prove they have except for our EXPERIENCES of longtime playing for many many years...what do you have to prove against that?

No matter how it's painted...online casinos have changed ....for the worse....but it cannot be proven ...just as it cannot be proven they haven't changed...called stalemate....


.

[greasemonkey]

The problem with having cards fall based on "betting patterns" is that someone with a little intellect would take this "knowledge" and bet differently thus influencing the fall of the cards and taking advantage when possible. If it is not random then someone will exploit it unless the non randomness just makes you lose regardless, in which an audit would see this.

[jod5413]

Computer versus Live Dealer, animated games versus Real Cards being dealt, it's not that hard to figure out.

I would like to add also, first I am not an avid poker player, but have played it quite a bit in fun mode. This is my observation, they play exactly the same as slots.

By this I mean on multi line slots, the majority of wins are 3 matching symbols on a payline, classic slots, the bottom 3 wins on the paytable, poker, the lowest 3 wins on the paytable.

Just as with slots, poker plays exactly the same. same predictable nature as in all aspects of online gaming.


I dedicate my response to 4ofaKind.

I have absolutely no clue what you are posting here, Mavin. I guess I am too stupid to understand your post?

There is no convincing those that will not believe Jod. No matter what they show or say...it still remains what it is. Those that believe that casinos have gone to the wayside (I have believed this for a long time the same as Westland Bowl does now). I am just surprised how long it takes some to come to the realization that casinos are not what they were. I trusted completely for years...until the last few years...then I believed in the changes that the casino did were to the detriment of the player no matter how much "shoving" done my throat all the naysayers tried to do...and it was a lot...goes back quite a few years....and yet it all is coming to pass...players are starting to believe from their own experiences....

I firmly believe that payouts have changed. Only because of the ban here in the USA, which caused a ton of players to quit gambling. Less players mean less winners. It is a mathmatical conclusion I totally believe in.

Reality will bite many more in the butt and if it takes a longer time, then so be it...it is your dime you continue to give up so easily because you do not believe casinos would do "that"....So, I ask you, how does one convince others that do not believe and will not believe till it is too late? You can't, not till you have been bitten once too many times and when it comes down to it, it doesn't feel quite right "in you mind" anymore.

I am sorry to tell you this, Silc, but I am ahead overall over the past two years. Am I supposed to prove to others that I have won? Or maybe I am a shill for all the casinos on line?

Some of us long time players began to believe a lot earlier and decided a while back to back off when things changed in "our minds" and tried to give warnings to others of what was coming and what was to be....because we believed it was starting to be done (the changes) but no one can help you decide or believe because there is no so called proof...as so many demanded we show...everyone will believe what they want...no matter what is shown....

I only can prove my stats, which I know to be factual.

It is called denial.....sad truth is, casinos are here to make money, lots of it....and when one stops playing there is always the next player to clean out...casinos do not care...they are NOT your friends...they are here to make MONEY anyway they can...bottom line talks...end of story...

Obviously casinos are in existance to try to make money, and to beat the customer. I know they are NOT my friends, friends would not kick me in the ass the way online casinos can!

(Going back in my corner to watch, as it all unravels slowly as time will tell because I still believe that all casinos have gone to some extent, to the wayside....)

I surely hope not!.

Since you state that :Online gambling is entertainment, PERIOD!...I will stand right there with my hand out every time you make a withdrawal if you make one at all anymore...because you are not playing to win anything...so why bother playing for real money or withdrawing and keeping any winnings that you stumble upon accidently when someone that plays to win is sitting right beside you?

Gamblers do not play for ENTERTAINMENT...that is a fallacy...a folklore...something to quote that has been repeated down the line so one can feel better about the "losses" incurred while "entertaining" themselves.... because there is a lot cheaper type of entertainment out there to be had...again, it is called denial..I know I play to win...I play to win big if I eve got that chance...the entertianment factor is the bonus if one does win...so...if you play for entertainment...you can do that for FREE! No complaining allowed...please remember this when you continue to lose...because you explicity said you play for entertainment ,yes, while others play to win I believe... But yet you ask us to take yours and others words without eveidence it is not happening? Can't have it both ways...Prove they are on the up and up....give us "proof" they are all legit....I mean, it must be easy since so many state they are...and nothing has changed as so many continue this old line....when many others KNOW things have changed.

Sorry, Silc, I play to win and in the task of winning, I am entertained.

So prove they haven't....can't, can you, or for that matter can anyone else...just as we cannot prove they have except for our EXPERIENCES of longtime playing for many many years...what do you have to prove against that?

No matter how it's painted...online casinos have changed ....for the worse....but it cannot be proven ...just as it cannot be proven they haven't changed...called stalemate....

All I know is that casinos have been good to me.
.

[Mavin1]

I have absolutely no clue what you are posting here, Mavin. I guess I am too stupid to understand your post?

No, not stupid. Just my way of voicing my perspective of how I see it anymore. If I buy an computerized chess game and begin to play it, it will adjust how it plays against me based on how I play, to create a challenge, making my winning the match against the computer more difficult as it progresses. This is not to say I would never beat the computer chess game, but it will be increasingly harder.

If this is done in such simple electronic hand held games, then why would we believe it doesn't happen on a larger scale.

That's why I say computer vs live dealer, computer generated programming can do this, live dealers cannot.

In a B&M, if they have slots that are really hot, like this new one they had gotten at our local casino and had a whole row of them, you couldn't ever get one of those machines because they were always packed. Then one day, I had gone in and that row was empty, no one was playing them. People noticed a significant change and avoided those slots like the plague.

So the B&M has to make a decision, put it back to a fair rtp, get rid of the row of slots or leave them taking up valuable floor space and not making any or very little money.

Virtual casinos don't have to worry about any of this, so they can keep a dead machine for eternity as it will attract players thinking that maybe it has come full cycle and will payout. So in virtual space they will still make money on a dead machine/s.

I am glad for you that you are up on your play, but until you end up on the always negative side of the spectrum, you will never understand or agree with those of us that are always on the never ending losing streaks.

I remember Kakata stating in one of his posts, why do so many have long dry losing streaks, if things were truly random, wouldn't there be long winning streaks as well from time to time. Something like that, but it stuck with me.

Before MG migrated us, I had hit a nice little winning streak, then I was bonus and comp banned. After AussieDave helped to get me reinstated, it was rock bottom from then on.

Sure it's nice to have the convenience of playing at home in your underwear, but if it's in exchange for always losing, it's not a good trade off.

[Mirvel]

i can't talk over other software than microgaming.... but i can tell you this...
The random they use is not fair...
i talked more than once to live chat and the tech department over this...
and i get the same awnser over and over again.......
My question was....
how can i get 14 red cards after playing black 14 times(happends only with bigger amounts i play)
and the 15th time i pick red i get black?
not once or twice but for months in a row
Awnser:
i should not look at that matter mathematically.
Question: How should i look than?
Awnser: none given
I cant believe you people believe in all this nonsens
its not only what they do with the cards.........
How about scatters that apear and disapear
Or youre playing for a while and lost 100$ - 200$ but you keep on playing because u get lots of scatters (no free spins or bonus but lots of scatters)
when all of a sudden u get disconected gotta connect again and never see a scatter again...... or reel 3 and 4 all of a sudden stop before reel 1 and 2 and you never get a win or scatters again?
i asked again and this is what they said.......it is most likely that that happend because someone had a big win on the game you are playing.......
say what ?? hahahahahahha
Misleading and deception.......thats what it is......
ONLINE gambling cant be executed fair in the way they do it.... period
A fair system is much easyer to build than what microgaming does.....
(for those of you who would like to know how to build a honest system)
just ask me il be more than happy to explain)
leaves 1 question....... why do they do it like this?
Awnser: GREED.
and to make it look good they make sure there are always some winners....
MICROGAMING is based on deception.... nothing more than that... it looks great.... plays great....... and there the good stuff ends...
If you want some proof of this story just lookup what happend whit microgaming poker!!!!!!(UNIBET is a very good example) .
Its to bad it is what it is because i think microgaming has some of the coolest games u wil find on the net........ I hope another provider wil stand up with games like that...and than with a honest payout...