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Thread: Sahara Sands Casino - 50$ No Welcome Deposit Bonus - Misleading Rules

  1. #1
    Bencuri is offline Experienced Member
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    Sahara Sands Casino - 50$ No Welcome Deposit Bonus - Misleading Rules

    At Sharara Sands, at this new Rival I signed up and requested their no deposit welcome bonus. I won 400 very shortly. I read the rules about what games are restricted before starting to play. However, browsing their game menu, I noticed that there is some problem. Their rule is:

    'Unless otherwise stated, 1 credit wagered in a game counts as 1 credit toward playthrough requirements. Play at the following games, and any variants, does not count towards playthrough requirements and winnings may be considered null and void: Roulette, Sicbo, RedDog, Baccarat, PaiGow, War, ThreeCard, LetItRide, Craps, DoubleUp, CaribStud, GameSet, Slot Progressive. Play at the following games, and any variants, count toward playthrough requirements at a reduced rate: Blackjack (1/5) Keno (1/2) Videopoker (1/10) '

    When I read this, I thought 'Double-Up' is a kind of game. I am not familiar with all card games and video pokers, I thought it is a kind of card game, as it can be read that Video Poker is allowed. Actually in this rule they are talking about games: 'Play at the following games'. But I noticed in the Card Game list when I went to play Blackjack that there is no such game. Actually I run through all the menus. No such game. So I had the suspicion that this refers to the Video Poker Double Up. I went to Live Chat, and they confirmed this. I played Video poker, but only a few hands, however I doubled up, but only a few times, and won a minor amount only (I won the 400 on a regular slot). I asked the Chat Operator what will happen now, and whether they will consider that this rule is misleading to those people who are not familiar with all the games. He kept on telling me that the Security Department will decide when I cash out. However the WR is 7500, and I don't want to do this much wager in case the whole thing is useless now because of this stupidly written rule. What do you think about it? I think I should be eligible for the winnings in any case, because this rule refers to games, and not features. It clearly says 'games'. Not a word about features. In this case Double Up is considered a game by the rule. It is the casinos problem, that there is no such game. In case they had written: feature, I would accept that my winnings may be forfeited, but in this condition, not. What do you think?

    Moreover accoarding to the chat operators answer, the 'GameSet' that is also referred to as a game in the rule seems to be a game feature. But it didn't turn out which. Based on this any winnings can be confiscated from anyone, because it might refer to any feature. I told this to the operator, he replied it is not like that, because these restricted features are disabled ineed in the software, so you cannot play them during your bonus play. Well, this is also a lie, because in Video Poker it is not disabled, and as the operator told me, the restriction refers to Video Poker as well. Crazy rules, ineed...

    I personally hate such places. It already happened to me recently several times that I won on a free chip, met the WR, and couldn't cash out because of some misleading info. Like at Rialto Casino at Top Game, and also at many others.

    Last edited by Bencuri; 12th April 2010 at 05:00 PM.

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    KasinoKing (12th April 2010)

  3. #2
    BingoT's Avatar
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    I just sent a note to the Rep about this thread.
    Hope they come here & reply.
    ~T~

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    Bencuri (12th April 2010)

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    I read somewhere that alot of players were having a hard time signing up so I went to the T&Cs :

    5.3 Players from the following locations are not permitted to play at Sahara Sands Online Casino: Netherlands Antilles, Canada, Cayman Islands, South Africa, Turkey and the following US States: New York, Utah, Michigan, Oregon, Illinois, Louisiana, Indiana, Nevada, New Jersey, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Washington, South Dakota.

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    KasinoKing (12th April 2010)

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    Bencuri is offline Experienced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BingoT View Post
    I just sent a note to the Rep about this thread.
    Hope they come here & reply.
    ~T~
    Thank you , T. If he comes indeed I would also like to know what this GameSet refers to exactly. Their chat operator didn't make it clear either.

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    Just to let you know Grant knows about this thread.

    Thanks Grant for the fast reply.
    ~T~

    Thank you for the heads up – I really appreciate it!

    Best Regards

    Grant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bencuri View Post
    I think I should be eligible for the winnings in any case, because this rule refers to games, and not features. It clearly says 'games'. Not a word about features. In this case Double Up is considered a game by the rule. It is the casinos problem, that there is no such game. In case they had written: feature, I would accept that my winnings may be forfeited, but in this condition, not. What do you think?
    An excellent point!
    I'm pretty sure nearly all Rival casino bonuses have this in the terms, and like you I have always assumed this to mean "Doubling Up" via the gamble feature on VP & Slots.
    I've never worried about it before because I never play VP at Rivals, and never gamble any slots wins, but you are right - it's not a game as such in it's own right.

    This is a VERY difficult one to call; I would expect winnings to be voided if I used the Double Up feature, but the term is ambiguous like you say because it's not a game.

    Hopefully the casino will see the argument & let you keep your winnings.
    I also hope this gets back to Rival and triggers a clarification in the rules for the future.
    (I also hope to see the Tooth Fairy & Santa Clause walking hand-in-hand down my road tonight... )

    KK
    Smile, it may never happen...
    KasinoKing's News < Rival release their first ever 50-line slot.
    SIX new softwares to try ~ Reel Layouts and Jackpot Odds ~ New USA Friendly Casinos!

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    Bencuri (12th April 2010)

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    The person whose affiliate link I used contacted me today and told me he was told by the affiliate manager that I will be allowed to withdraw in case I manage to meet the WR. I hope I will be able to test it, hopefully for the max. amount.

    I am satified, but it is quite disappointing that such things cannot be clarified by the Live Chat effectively. I don't mean that the live chat operator should be expertly informed in every rule, but at least I should feel when I leave the live chat, that my case will be checked by an expert fast and accurately. The responses I got in live chat was mostly about maybe's. What I dislike the most in such cases is that you are promised that some manager will look into your case, then numerous days later you receive a letter, and there is chance that that letter won't tell you much more accurate things. I think many casinos should change this practice, that every time there is such a mistake, you are required to run long rounds to get a correct and sure answer. Especially in such case when the rule is so ambiguos. Luckily it ended in a much better way.

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    Sumb'tch! I never noticed that in Rival's bonus terms before! Sloto'Cash has it too. I always looked for VP in the absolute no-no list and haven't "seen" the "DoubleUp" - right between "Craps" and "CaribStud" - in all this time - 2 years +.

    I don't think I've ever played VP before I've met the WR on a promo cuz of the lightweight contribution but if I had I would have doubled-up, damn skippy!

    Quote Originally Posted by KasinoKing
    ...This is a VERY difficult one to call; I would expect winnings to be voided if I used the Double Up feature, but the term is ambiguous like you say because it's not a game...
    As ambiguous as it was carefully word-crafted to be (you don't actually believe that "DoubleUp" doesn't even appear on the same line as "Videopoker" on the restricted games list by accident, do you?), I don't think that, if you had the stats on how many cases this rule has been applied to, with force, you'd see Rival or Rival operators having any difficulty in calling it, whatsoever. And don't you find it odd that, while playing to meet WR, VP limits are lowered but the double up feature isn't de-activated? Yeah, me neither!
    ; =O)

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    When I played my first Rival a couple months ago I live chatted and asked what the gameset/double up games were since they were excluded. Eventually, I figured out what the double up was but never did understand what the word gameset meant.

    They need to be more clear because on most of the promos it does ban those two plus the slot progressives...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MommyMachine View Post
    I read somewhere that alot of players were having a hard time signing up so I went to the T&Cs :

    5.3 Players from the following locations are not permitted to play at Sahara Sands Online Casino: Netherlands Antilles, Canada, Cayman Islands, South Africa, Turkey and the following US States: New York, Utah, Michigan, Oregon, Illinois, Louisiana, Indiana, Nevada, New Jersey, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Washington, South Dakota.
    Thanks for that info. Don't need to waste my time downloading. I think that's the first Rival that bans players from individual states.

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