Casinomeister / Rant

[4 of a kind]

In a couple of days I will have been an active member here for one year. Soon after the UIGEA was passed I was on the hunt for new sites to play at, and was thrilled when I discovered this site. Learning how rogues operate with current updates of who they are, along with pertinent information U.S.A. players need to keep playing online, I have benefited in more ways then one by becoming a member here.

I know I should be keeping my mouth shut instead of getting into what I’m about to, but with risking becoming alienated here, I decided to express my feelings about the drastic changes, (at least for me) I’m recognizing as of late at this site.

Being an old man of 57 years and a 35 year veteran of gambling of all forms, and over ten years of online experiences, I’m starting to really wonder about what online casinos and online players have actually evolved into over the last decade.

When I started gambling online before 2000, it was exciting and really nothing more then a great convenience to have a casino in my office or home with the simple click of a mouse. Of course rigged was always a fearful thought at first, but after a few nice hits and getting paid the confidence level rose and before you new it, I became a VIP at 2 of the 3 different sites I played at. No one was offering bonuses at the time as far as I knew, or maybe I was just to busy sticking to my two or three sites never looking else where. VIP’s in the early days of online gaming were assigned a VIP rep, and when looking for special treatment for your loyalty, consulted this rep and usually got whatever it was you were looking for. Much like the same way you would be treated at a land based casino. The only comps you got from online casinos were cash comps with no play through crap like today, or sometimes free tickets to a big boxing match or show in Vegas, or AC.

Although many people think online casinos could do more harm to a gambler with the simple access, my experience and records prove I actually trimmed my annual losses by playing online and reduced my visits to land based casinos. What people forget about is after booking a room and traveling to a land based casino for a weekend, you usually go with your pockets full and access to more money if you needed it. If things are cold you will still dig in hoping for an up swing which may never come the whole weekend. You know you should have pulled the plug a long time ago but you say to yourself, well, I’m here now and not certain when I’m coming back, so just keep playing when you shouldn’t be even with that loser feeling inside. This always results to accumulating larger losses. On the other hand when playing online, I can’t tell you how many times I would just pull the plug after a half hour knowing today’s not going to be a good day.

I’m sure that most online gamblers during the early online days experienced the same things I did. Today I’m not sure how the online gambler thinks or actually what he or she is expecting from online casinos. The whole online thing has evolved into an overloaded bonus ridden mess.

I think with all the online casinos that started to pile on top of each other they were forced into starting this, whose bonus is better then the others crap with hopes of recruiting loyal players. I think this all back fired on them since all they did was recruit players that probably shouldn’t be gambling in the first place, but for $20.00 dollars they could technically (at least in their minds) start with a $100.00 or more, looking for that pot of gold, or that screen shot of a big hit and only $300.00 of it is really theirs to keep. Realistically how many players here would actually consider going to a land based casino with a $20.00 bankroll? Forget twenty, how many would consider even going with just a $100.00 dollar bankroll? Please don’t bring up the seniors taking a bus ride, getting out of the house for a day, a free lunch for their bus ticket cost, and playing the penny slots.

What I’m trying to get too I guess is that a year ago at this site I found great and interesting threads dealing with all types of gaming information, and conversation. I also recognize all the other platforms available to all of us for different topics, but for the most part their all dead.

There were many great posters and threads that for the most part seemed to have all but vanished. I don’t only mean banned posters like JHV, who although had some great and informative threads the trade off for his obnoxious, belligerent, and arrogant behavior wasn’t worth it, but many others I no longer see here.

I have played thousands if not hundreds of thousands, or maybe even millions of hands of video poker in the past decade online. No doubt what so ever things have tightened up, and the good spikes are becoming farther and fewer between. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to realize the sites are being forced to tighten up for the sake of survival with the present economic diasters.

As far as online casinos being rigged goes, playing programmed software for real money anywhere in cyberspace under any circumstances, will always and automatically also create doubt. If someone thinks their positively rigged, they of course shouldn’t be playing. My only real argument with rigged was when CasinoJack said he could randomly change RTP’s and follow you around the casino reducing your odds of winning at will. That’s certainly rigged to me anyhow.

If I had to base online casinos to what 90% of what is available to read at this site recently, I would conclude that the casinos are nothing more then bonus whores, working the streets at real discount prices. I don’t belong or participate or read other casino forums, and maybe with the amount of time I spend online, I’ve been visiting this forum to often. But I’ve got to tell you, at least in my view it’s starting to look and sound like a site more concerned about bonuses then anything else.

Online casinos in its current form have evolved into a low roller’s paradise. Now that they are being forced to even tighten up on the bonuses, visiting this site lately is like entering bonus hell.

There had to be a reason for them to concentrate on this strategy, which leads me to believe that’s all they got left to go after.

[mclee321]

Don't play with bonuses if you don't want them, seems striaght forward to me.

Forgive me, but some of your post seems a little elitist. Many people enjoyed the extended bankroll a bonus offers, not all have thousands to piss away. 20 dollar depositers shouldn't be excluded from playing online, its your right to take if you have an internet connection and the aformentioned cash.

I totally agree the casinos are getting desperate though, a never ending show of better offers only for them to realise the hole they are getting in, and capping the offers with restricted payouts and ever increasing wager requirements.

You have to admit some Casino offer amazing service and offer few bonuses, Red32 has to have one of the greatest number of (happy) users and you really only get a couple of offers a month. You don't mind because you are never dicked around.

Just for the record I play with and without bonuses. I find some Casino types (i.e RTG), you need a bonuses just to get a sniff at a win. You money can last moments. I normally deposit between 50-200 on each session. Lowrolling? Maybe, but I've other things to do with my money than gamble.

[Simmo!]

Good post IMO 4oak. I have long thought the signup bonus is something we could all do without - it causes far too many issues - but unfortunately it will never disappear while there is no suitable alternative.

I'd like to think that a casino could survive without offering a signup bonus. I look at Bodog and their 10% bonus as something to be admired and it has been in place long enough for me to think that you don't have to offer a big bonus to get the players. It doesn't sound very exciting, but Bodog seem to do OK.

The Wagerworks bonus structure is the one I most admire. Playthru the deposit to meet the WR, then get the bonus. How often do you see that abused? Never, obviously. But the casino still has the advantage of being able to offer a bonus and remain competitive in that regard. Might not be as attractive to some players, but then you have to ask: if a signup bonus is that important to a player, are they likely to be the sort of player that will be profitable over the long term and justify the expense involved in maintaining them?

Obviously human nature means that "free" money is going to attract free lunch hunters, but the casinos have only themselves to blame for the issues that brings, if that's the way they choose to attract punters. Someone, somewhere needs to take a risk, try something different IMO. But without guarantees it needs to be someone with a safety net.

I would have thought that the overheads involved in offering big bonuses - abuse, winners and support issues - would eat up any profit made from the players that stick, but I must be wrong or we wouldn't have so many casinos competing with big bonus offers.

It's a mess and until someone finds something different that works, it can only get worse IMO.

Oh...another thought occurs to me. There are a lot of us who don't take bonuses. What if a casino came along that didn't offer a signup bonus and sank more into loyalty bonuses for players, or had a vastly improved comp points rate. That would be attractive to me, as long as they met other criteria (fast payouts, good software etc). I wonder if a smaller subset of loyal players would make up, or exceed, the profits lost on signup bonus players? I'd like someone like 32Red to come along, take their Dash brand or something, drop the signup bonus and experiment with some loyalty offerings that are better/different to everyone else.

[love2winalot]

Hiya: Great Topic. I have played online for many yeras. This is funny to a lot of people as they ask, "If you are in Las Vegas, why would you play on the Internet?" It is the samething i tell my wife, when she ask why i do not play at a Casino we happen to be in with my $30?

Because at a Local casino, you have to bet $4 Min, and in Roulette, the game is divided into 2 parts, the Inside=where all the numbers are, and the Outside=red/black, odd/even, ect. If i wanted to bet on Red, and on the number 17, i would have to bet $8 total as the Min Bet. I only have to bet $2 making the same bet, "at any online casino".

There is 3/2 blackjack online, instead of 6/5. There is Single 0 Roulette online instead of 00. Want to play single 0 Roulette at the Wynn, here in Vegas? The Min bet is only $100. no that is not a typo.

I used to play with Bonus money in order to grind it out, and have part of it left over to withdraw as profit. I used to open an account at everyplace that had a Download Bonus, hoping to win 3-4 bets in a row, and deposit/cashout what i made. Both of there are really hard to do these days.

The biggest gripe/rant I have is this. There are 32 accredited Casinos, "just on this site", that accept players from America. They decided to stand firm, and keep a big portion of their player base, even though they could get in some sort of trouble for doing so. But I do not understand why they just stand by, and see deposit option after deposit option be taken away, AND NOT REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE?

It is like saying, "Yes American players, you can play here. All you have to do is come visit us on our little isle, hand us the Cash, and we will deposit it into your account".

The Greatest Bonus in the world is Useless if you do not have any way to deposit the required money into the casino to get the bonus in the first place.....

[gloria460]

When I started gambling online before 2000, it was exciting and really nothing more then a great convenience to have a casino in my office or home with the simple click of a mouse. Of course rigged was always a fearful thought at first, but after a few nice hits and getting paid the confidence level rose and before you new it, I became a VIP at 2 of the 3 different sites I played at. No one was offering bonuses at the time as far as I knew, or maybe I was just to busy sticking to my two or three sites never looking else where. VIP’s in the early days of online gaming were assigned a VIP rep, and when looking for special treatment for your loyalty, consulted this rep and usually got whatever it was you were looking for. Much like the same way you would be treated at a land based casino. The only comps you got from online casinos were cash comps with no play through crap like today, or sometimes free tickets to a big boxing match or show in Vegas, or AC.

Those were the good old days. I can't tell you how many unexpected gifts that I got from FL casinos. I'm still wearing that robe from many years ago and it's a good one. The vip and regular reps were excellent and up to a point they still are at the FL group.

I've only recently started back dabbling with them and I'm nowhere near what I used to deposit with them but I always take their low bonuses. There is absolutely no issues with them, they're cashable and you can grow that small bonus most of the time. 95% of the time I bypass rival and rtg bonuses as I've read too many issues about them and they're mostly not worth it.

[funeral979]

Entering my 8th year gambling online, I can say without a doubt that it is a completely different experience now than it was say 5-6 years ago.

Yes, I am a bonus whore now....the games play so differently now than what they used to that I wouldn't think to play without a bonus. Anyone who has played online for at least a few years can tell there has been a change. No one needs to analyze 1000's of spins or hands to tell. After so much play you can just FEEL it.

That is why 90% of my gambling budget now goes to B&M casinos.....I used to set aside only 25% of it to B&M's.....

I mean it used to be so enjoyable. I would get off work friday evenings and go put $100 on my Netspend or send $100 via WU. I knew I would get a whole weekends worth of entertainment. A $100 deposit in those days would last for hours on end. I had countless nights where I would play and be on such a run that I found myself still playing when the sun came up and being thousands of dollars up. A $1000+ withdrawal on a $100 deposit was an attainable goal.

Now? My expectations are so low that I feel like ive accomplished something if I can make my $50 last 30 minutes. And as soon as I deposit I pretty much know its already lost. 5 years ago if I had the kind of luck I do now I would have stopped playing and never looked back. Of course, they have me hooked now so I pretty much just lowroll for a few minutes of entertainment.
I never would have thought back then that I would be making minimum deposits like I do now. I used to deposit about $3,000 a month....now its more like $150 a month. I just refuse to gamble big anymore with the games playing like they are.

So in that regard, 4OK is spot on....it IS a lowrollers paradise now....and the casinos can thank themselves for that.

[Mavin1]

Good thread and some great responses here. I have a thought regarding all these ridiculous bonuses and stipulations tied to them. If a player takes a bonus then they have to meet the WR before cashing out, "if" they can cashout, thus increasing the casinos odds the player will be 9 times out of 10 unable to cashout because the RTP is rarely in the players favor or drastically drops when WR is nearing completion. To quash the ones that do win possibly big, they come up with capping, thus again, reducing the casinos loss/increasing their gain.
Then you have the players high or low that prefer not to use a bonus, the RTP is "tight" and 9 out of 10 players just loose their deposit. Again the player gets stiffed time and time again and the casino makes out like bandits.
Either way, it is clearly becoming a win win situation for many casinos, IMO mostly RTG's, no matter if a player utilizes a bonus or not.
Their are MANY casino's/platforms I simply don't trust anymore to give me a fair session for money spent. But there are also some that I do totally trust win or lose and these are where I play.

Previously I was a staunch advocate for B&M casino's until my last visit at our local one. Although it is only a 10 minute drive, just the going is what makes you want to plan to spend some time, have some fun and hopefully come home even or up. I have to say my one day of 3 hours away from home was a total dissapointment. The casino had rows of slots "Out Of Service" or was working on them or going down the rows slipping in cards and I can only imagine what was going on. But this was the first time I never once hit a free spin or bonus round at the B&M. Needless to say, it will be the last time I ever go there.

So having said that, my feelings is keep sticking it to us with poor RTP, jailhouse bonuses and a leash around our withdrawals and as far as I'm concerned the casinos going this direction can dry up and blow away. I certainly won't miss any of them.

Funeral reminded me of the very first casino I played at 10 yrs ago? It was Palace of Chance, they offered $25 chip for sign up, I played on it for 4.5 days solid. A few years ago, when I finally got tired of the now obvious change of play/return not happening anymore, I called and asked why my money wasn't lasting for that amount of time, the CS person laughed and said there is no way $25 could last 4+ days. Well at one time it did, but not anymore.

[rockycatt]

Good thread and some great responses here. I have a thought regarding all these ridiculous bonuses and stipulations tied to them. If a player takes a bonus then they have to meet the WR before cashing out, "if" they can cashout, thus increasing the casinos odds the player will be 9 times out of 10 unable to cashout because the RTP is rarely in the players favor or drastically drops when WR is nearing completion. To quash the ones that do win possibly big, they come up with capping, thus again, reducing the casinos loss/increasing their gain.
Then you have the players high or low that prefer not to use a bonus, the RTP is "tight" and 9 out of 10 players just loose their deposit. Again the player gets stiffed time and time again and the casino makes out like bandits.
Either way, it is clearly becoming a win win situation for many casinos, IMO mostly RTG's, no matter if a player utilizes a bonus or not.
Their are MANY casino's/platforms I simply don't trust anymore to give me a fair session for money spent. But there are also some that I do totally trust win or lose and these are where I play.

Previously I was a staunch advocate for B&M casino's until my last visit at our local one. Although it is only a 10 minute drive, just the going is what makes you want to plan to spend some time, have some fun and hopefully come home even or up. I have to say my one day of 3 hours away from home was a total dissapointment. The casino had rows of slots "Out Of Service" or was working on them or going down the rows slipping in cards and I can only imagine what was going on. But this was the first time I never once hit a free spin or bonus round at the B&M. Needless to say, it will be the last time I ever go there.

So having said that, my feelings is keep sticking it to us with poor RTP, jailhouse bonuses and a leash around our withdrawals and as far as I'm concerned the casinos going this direction can dry up and blow away. I certainly won't miss any of them.

Funeral reminded me of the very first casino I played at 10 yrs ago? It was Palace of Chance, they offered $25 chip for sign up, I played on it for 4.5 days solid. A few years ago, when I finally got tired of the now obvious change of play/return not happening anymore, I called and asked why my money wasn't lasting for that amount of time, the CS person laughed and said there is no way $25 could last 4+ days. Well at one time it did, but not anymore.

+1 more that agrees

[rockycatt]

i think if were lucky the casino's are headed for a liken to the bear market shake out just like when the bear emerges from the river and shakes out the water from his fir

sory casino boys that are in the bad side of the players , have you ever heard the saying CASH IS KING so get ready and you know who you are

and the ones that are safe well they also know that playing fair is now about to pay a premium
in a nut shell RC

PS AS THE ADDAGE GOES DONT WORY ABOUT THE CHIEFS THE INDIANS SINK AND THE CHIEFS SURFACE

[Wildfire7]

If these casinos are now a low rollers paradise, then surely that is not a bad thing considering most players would fit into that category.

IMO harking back to the old days and how it was all so rosy back then, is nothing more than nostalgia. A trip down memory lane, reminiscing over big wins of yesteryear, convincing yourself that it was all so different back in the day.

There is more choice than ever now, more games than ever, faster payouts than ever, better software than ever, more bonuses than ever. Players also have past experiences to fall back on as well. There are many positives. The way some players go on about the demise of online gaming does make you wonder why they bother even playing now, if their past v present experiences are so radically different.

Mike