RTG's - What have we learned can be controlled in the backend?

[TOC]

Totally agree.
If you don't like what you're getting with RTG - go elsewhere!


Pretty twisted logic there.
But then, we've come to be used to that from you, an RTG casino operator.

KK

KasinoKing your a fool, I'm an affiliate operator just like you. If you want to play I'm here!

[DogBoy001]

Since you are a technician that actually works with casino software I truly respect your comments. If you don't mind I hope I can ask a few questions.

As I have stated in several previous posts, we are an independent company that supplies games to RTG (and land-based groups).
I'll provide answers to some of the questions.

Based on all your technical posts which are numerous and informative, should we then put our minds at ease that everything is 110% straight up with online casino software?

In regards to RTG software, that is correct.

It's as random a system as any of the major land-based groups, and I have worked directly for IGT, and in my time I have supplied games to and worked closely with Bally, WMS and many smaller providers.

Would it be safe to say that all the players here when combined which would equate to millions of hours of play time, and taking into consideration all this experience of past and present results; any suspicions we the players have at least about the software, should be considered ridicules and that their is no chance of any foul play on the casinos side, at least with the software you are familiar with?

Players are generally suspicious by nature, but in regards to RTG software there is no chance of independent modification of the games on the part of the operator.

Suspicions do not equate to truth, but they are terribly hard to expunge.
Take the "why did my game re-download, it's rigged" argument.
Well yes, games do need to be re-downloaded on occasion, in fact it has happened twice recently with some RTG games, the first due to an art update of the rules page to highlight limited RTP contribution to the jackpots, and the second with the addition of the toolbar.
No matter what the truth behind the matter, suspicions always remain.

On another note on suspicions and cries of foul play, a considerable number of issues that I see posted on these forums relate to RTP settings.
It is a misconception that having several RTP settings that an operator can select from, and have changed via RTG (that is, not on the fly), is somehow less than kosher.
I have pointed out that this is standard operating procedure for the bricks & mortar casino industry, and any major regulation of on-line play will reflect this precedent.

...

Half of the population of Australia believe that B&M slots are rigged, but they ignore mathematics in their argument.
Players are subject to the fact that limited spins produce wildly varying RTP in a random system (and limited spins is relative...5000 spins is a drop in the bucket of a game cycle).

As with the B&M industry the on-line industry has its doubters.
In regards to some software systems those doubts have foundation, but not RTG's.
But players will always believe only what they want to believe.

Woooof

[TOC]

It amasses me how the regulars on this site attack posters with crap they don't even understand. KasinoKing can look at my site and see it's an affiliate site. I bet the guy has RTG sites listed on his portal site but hes replying to this thread, go figure. Your site and name is disrespectful, my opinion. I used to respect you but your totally out of line.. Quit trying to be the pit bull at CM because your out of line..

[KasinoKing]

KasinoKing your a fool, I'm an affiliate operator just like you. If you want to play I'm here!

I shall restrain my reply - but thanks for the laugh!
For the record; I'm not an affiliate operator, I'm an affiliate.

It amasses me how the regulars on this site attack posters with crap they don't even understand. KasinoKing can look at my site and see it's an affiliate site. I bet the guy has RTG sites listed on his portal site but hes replying to this thread, go figure. Your site and name is disrespectful, my opinion. I used to respect you but your totally out of line.. Quit trying to be the pit bull at CM because your out of line..

Me out of line?
All I said was your logic that "if one casino software is rigged - then they all are" is twisted.
And for that I get your ridiculous attack and insults?
Get a life.

KK

[TOC]

I shall restrain my reply - but thanks for the laugh!
For the record; I'm not an affiliate operator, I'm an affiliate.


Me out of line?
All I said was your logic that "if one casino software is rigged - then they all are" is twisted.
And for that I get your ridiculous attack and insults?
Get a life.

KK

OK I'll refrain too but there is no difference in an a affiliate or affiliate operator, sorry. I bet everyone gets a laugh from that, I did. I make money just like you, what 40% from a casino? Back off my friend and I'll be kind because I'm an affiliate just like you, plain and simple.. PS - Laugh all ya want but anyone with any since is laughing at you about now, sorry! Honestly stop while your website still has credibility... Look, I'm not trying to give you or your website a hard time but when you bark up the wrong tree I will be there so move on my friend!! Your out of line.

[dcpam39]

So my question is, how can we really trust RTG to be truely random? Does everyone really believe it is?

Yes, I believe that RTG is a random software. I don't think operators need to mess with the randomness of the software to make money. They have far more effective techniques, i.e. bonuses/wagering requirements, accepting deposits 24x7, but limiting withdrawals on the weekends, and holidays, when most people are probably playing; not allowing withdrawals to an ewallet if you deposit with a cc (even if most of the time you use ewallet-Rushmore casinos); not releaseing payments for 5 business days-and then requesting security docs (rival).
I have found that i win with RTG--it's the cashing out that is sometimes the problem.
Pam

[Simmo!]

KK / TOC. Enough already please - its a derail. Take it to PM if you must.

It was always my understanding that the RJ was around 1.5% of RTP, which would mean 50 spins at $1 on a 96% RTP should increase the RJ by .70 or so. Whoever let it slip to you about the settings would probably be in big trouble if management found out.

As far as the reel symbols go, I thought it depended on what the RTP was set to, which can't be changed without RTG approval. That was my understanding from a previous post anyways.

Snap.

I think Dogboy is the man to listen to on this. But for what it's worth, I'd read something recently that made me question this, so I asked two reputable RTG operators at ICE I know for the lowdown and they both (independently) told me exactly the same thing: that any change to games or payouts has to be requested, with good reason, in writing through RTG and if the reasoning was substantiated, only then would it be considered.

Additionally one of them told me, most Real Series slots at a specific casino have to have the same settings across the board, with 95% being the most common setting, so a change to one affects the majority. And of course, the Random Jackpot affects the overall RTP.

FWIW, I was also informed that RTG used to allow operators to play with the settings some years back but there was apolicy shift due to unscrupulous operators using it to obvious advantage. Now if only they'd do a "policy shift" regarding licensing dodgy operators

I voted "yes", but for a couple of months prior to January I would have voted "unsure" LOL.

[DogBoy001]

It was always my understanding that the RJ was around 1.5% of RTP, which would mean 50 spins at $1 on a 96% RTP should increase the RJ by .70 or so. Whoever let it slip to you about the settings would probably be in big trouble if management found out.

Heya,

As is usually the case, one should take technical information supplied by help staff with a grain of salt...they usually do not have a clear understanding of the mathematics involved.

The total jackpot RTP is around 1.3% for the single jackpot reel series games, however it is important to note that this is not the increment.
The RTP includes the seed value in this calculation (either $1000 or $5000).

The "no more than 1.5%" statement found on the rules pages was inserted in preparation for the introduction of the Minor/Major jackpot system, which differs slightly from this c.1.3% total RTP consumption.

Woooof

[Pinababy69]

Players are generally suspicious by nature, but in regards to RTG software there is no chance of independent modification of the games on the part of the operator.

Suspicions do not equate to truth, but they are terribly hard to expunge.

Take the "why did my game re-download, it's rigged" argument.
Well yes, games do need to be re-downloaded on occasion, in fact it has happened twice recently with some RTG games, the first due to an art update of the rules page to highlight limited RTP contribution to the jackpots, and the second with the addition of the toolbar.

No matter what the truth behind the matter, suspicions always remain.

Half of the population of Australia believe that B&M slots are rigged, but they ignore mathematics in their argument.Players are subject to the fact that limited spins produce wildly varying RTP in a random system (and limited spins is relative...5000 spins is a drop in the bucket of a game cycle).

As with the B&M industry the on-line industry has its doubters.
In regards to some software systems those doubts have foundation, but not RTG's.
But players will always believe only what they want to believe.

Woooof

Outstanding post Dogboy, and pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about the whole "rigged" argument. Not only do players believe what they WANT to believe...the mind will rationalize things in strange ways. Maybe someone loses more than they should or wanted to...the brain starts finding "patterns" to explain away what has happened. You can make yourself see anything, if you really want to. The 5000 spins comment above is SO true. When I read posts of people who say they deposited $100, took $1 or $2 spins and busted....I shake my head. You are giving yourself only a minimum of 100 spins to hit something. Not near enough. You can easily bust out in minutes, and more than likely, you will...on ANY software.

This is why I deposit very small, and bet very small. Sometimes on RTG slots, I will start off only playing 10 lines or 10c bets. Because I know if the machine isn't hitting right away...I could be there for a while, lol. Betting smaller ensures I'm going to get more spins...thus giving me more of a chance to "maybe" hit something.

Don't want to ramble, but that really is a great post.

[takethemoney]

I don't come here to get combative with anyone. I don't know who you are but the fact you are connected to the industry in some way makes me care even less from a credibility stand point. Nobody comes after anyone's butt for having legitimate questions. I don't know about you, but I do not live in a communist country where one must watch what they say. You don't scare me. That said, I have posted when I have won too. All my posts aren't negative. Most of the information I posted as fact has already been outted by others. The only thing new I added was what I was told about the RJ accumulation rate setting by an actual CSR from a casino, who got this info directly from tech.

And as suggested, I no longer am depositing at any RTG casinos. I know what I've witnessed over much time and many hundreds of hours over thousands of hands. The games are not the same as they were 2 years ago...I promise. There is more bitching as of late about too few bonus rounds and too small of pays when they do hit. There is familiar talk about how money deposited does not yield the kind of play or entertainment that it used to. Or, about how we see less 5 of a kinds or 5 scatters. When was the last time anyone here got 5 scatters on Cleopatra's gold? When did you last get 5 Cleopatra's. I had them several times prior to 2 years ago. It doesn't happen anymore. What about 5 white diamonds on Diamond Dozen. I used to hit them, but never anymore in many, many thousands of spins. It's not in my head. All I'm seeking is truth and transparency. Until I see more of it I shall refrain from playing.

Peace
PS - I know the poll numbers are relatively small right now, but if 2/3 of the voters feel the game is not truely random then then the industry has a PR problem. Everyone who feels this way is probably not playing to the potential they would be if there were no such doubts. What about all the customers RTG casinos have lost due to such doubts? If I had to take a guess, I would say that gambling online, in general, is down right now. New casinos open up every week and start spamming for $$$. I've been getting lots of phone calls from some apparently desparate establishments, seeking my deposits.

The fact is takethemoney posts negative threads and posts about anything and everything negitive. Search the posts, it's like Debbie Downer on SNL! I don't know if software providers cheat, or casinos but why post the same shit over and over again without something to back it up? Geesh.. If I was a software provider and read this thread I'd be coming after your butt! Why must we go on and on about the same ole crap. If RTG cheats then all software providers do, so everyone needs to stop playing online. Not a good poll, rather disgusting to the industry and anyone affiliated with RTG or their casino's. JMP ....