The Mysterious RTP??????

[SlotKing]

And how many of us "average joes" can afford to play $15 bucks a spin...really, (it is almost a slap in the face to show this) that isn't even comprehensible for 99.9% of us ...and I guess that is where our RTP goes...and why our RTP is so low...for the average joe..

Silc...

The ONLY reason I was playing such a monstrous bet is because, if you had read the post after that, I had a cushion of $1000 to back up the bets I was making... that was the first time I had ever played max bet on that game and it rewarded me handsomely...

I am just the same "average joe" as everyone else - I deposit small amounts and play low.... If I am on a hot streak, I will up my bets, searching for the huge wins... I just happened to hit that on a max bet... that's all.

[Mavin1]

SlotKing obviously got very lucky being able to bet and hit that way and yes it can happen to anyone of us, although I would be running off with the $1,000 like a cat that swallowed the canary.

But we still can't ignore the fact that these types of wins or even mediocre wins to keep a person playing for longer than 10 minutes is getting very rare.
So no matter how the RTP's are calculated I honestly don't think they are an accurate reflection of the true playing picture for most players.

Maybe instead of the RTP being set to give loads of 4-5 like symbols on a winning payline, now what the player gets is the 1-3 like symbols on a winning playline much more than ever before thus dolling out more nickel and dime wins to balance out the decreased $1+ wins which will still reflect the same RTP as usual, with no noticeable changes in the public stats, as they are probably figured as a whole instead of an individual return per player. i.e. RTP's (players) instead of RTP (player).

[KasinoKing]

The average lately in the last few months for many players is averaging around 60% so where is the other 30+% going??? If you read in these forums, I do not think we have seen but one person saying that they are over the RTP on ONE game only...nowhere do you see people excitedly saying....yeahhh! I hit 95% today (I would be the first to cheer if I ever came close to this at any casino for a few sessions).....all you ever hear about anymore is that they are getting back about 20-50% RTP..on almost all sessions....

I just did a total round-up of all my play on Rival casinos:-
Total Deposited:- $4,750
Total withdrawn:- $7,240
(Remember I always play with bonuses - those deposits gave me $6,554 more to start my play with!).

More than half my deposits resulted in total blow-outs.
But several GREAT results from individual bonuses boosted my profit, notably:-
Sloto'Cash; $100 in, $600 out and $125 in, $625 out.
Irish Luck; $200 in, $2,550 out.
Vegas Sky; $150 in. $1,400 out.

Hi Nicholas and thank you. Could you possibly post an example of a payout % page for a slot just to have in this thread, I think it would be helpful since I have no casinos on my pc at this time to look at one.

You can see the payout % of ALL Rival slots on one page Here.
(The "Return" column - on the far right of the first table)
They are nearly all 96%.

KK

[Mavin1]

Thanks KK, you certainly do your homework! I suppose one of the disadvantages I do cause for myself is not taking deposit bonuses. Therefore having a smaller bankroll to work with like $25 to $50 per session. It is difficult for me to want to use bonuses as years ago I didn't need to and still could play for a good length of time. Plus had a bad experience with a bonus from Coolcat, which was my fault, for at the time I didn't familiarize myself with the terms, plus this was well before knowing this casino group is Rogue. I had hit the jackpot on the nickel slot Diamond Mine Deluxe and won $4,000, put in for a withdrawal as I had made my WR and only received $250 as the bonus only allowed a 10x max cashout on my $25 deposit. That was a tough lesson to learn. So since then I try to muddle along without the bonuses. But now I do have a much better understanding of T&C's and maybe should consider using deposit bonuses since my deposits are so small anyways.

I do understand what all of you have said about the RNG's, Variances and RTP's. So I guess for the small budget player we do have to learn a different strategy to still get some quality time on the small amount of money we are able to spend.

I have checked out the chart for the RTP in your link. Does it stay current or is this a set example? Do the RTP's fluctuate in a given range, if so how low can they fluctuate or how high? I also notice a couple that are 94% is this considered High Variance and do they go lower than 94%?

Maybe a better title for this thread would have been, "How to make friends with that Damn RTP".

[KasinoKing]

I have checked out the chart for the RTP in your link. Does it stay current or is this a set example? Do the RTP's fluctuate in a given range, if so how low can they fluctuate or how high? I also notice a couple that are 94% is this considered High Variance and do they go lower than 94%?

You're nearly there, but still not quite getting this. RTP has absolutely nothing to do with variance.

The RTP % is what you would get back from the slot in the long run.
e.g. If you could afford to do 1,000,000 spins at $1 on a slot with an RTP of 95%, at the end you should have $950,000 left.

Now just suppose on every one of those 1,000,000 spins you won 95c, you would still end up with $950,000 (95% RTP), but that would be the lowest variance possible.

Conversely, suppose it was a "Jackpot only" machine, and 999,999 of your spins returned $0, but you won $950,000 on just 1 spin. You would still end up with $950,000 (95% RTP), but that would be the highest variance possible.

Variance = swings in fortune = lots of little wins (low) or just a few big wins (high).

The RTP % figures on my site were taken manually from various Rival casinos.
I don't check them very often, so it is possible some could be wrong if Rival have changed the games since they were first released. (Or if there was a cock-up in writing the rules pages - I would not be a tiny bit surprised as they are notoriously incompetent in this department! )
They should never fluctuate. If these slots are truly random, then the RPT is a fixed figure based on playing an infinite number of spins.
It can never change, unless the reel layouts, pay-tables, or bonus feature returns are amended.

Theoretically it is better for players if the RTP % is as high as possible.
However because of variance, as explained above, personally I think it would be foolish to only look at and play the highest RTP games.
If you played a very low variance game with a 99% RTP it's unlikely you would ever hit a big enough win to let you quit ahead.
But if you played a very high variance game with say a 93% RTP you have a chance of getting a win which is many 100s x your bet, and so could quit well ahead.

There is no black and white answer.
No-one can say "if you play slot Y with bet size X you will win"
It's all down to personal preference, experience, and most importantly LUCK!

I hope all your luck is the GOOD sort, especially over the Christmas period!

KK

[AussieDave]

I truly believe that to even have a consistent chance online you pretty much need a decent bankroll. Not that the small depositor couldn't deposit 50 dollars and post a 10k winner screen shot. But I would think that the small depositor would always look for a bonus, and then be forced into extreme conditions regardless of what happens early on during any given session making it hard to grab something.

Well this year most (that's around 97%) of my gambling bucks have gone to 32Red. A total of $82,250US. Withdrawals total $61,450US. Leaving me down the hole $20,800US.

In so far as withdrawals this is the best year I've every had gambling online. That's from over 12 years btw.

So on those facts, given that I've also played some pretty huge bets, I'm convinced that a large bankroll helps with hitting those nice wins.

Granted I'm still in the hole. But considering 2008 and 2007 respectively I was down $50K or so, it just means that if I spend more and play max bets... I stand a chance of cracking the BIG 4 Blue emeralds with a wild kicker in the free spins on Break da Bank Again

At that point I'll call it a day...


Cheers



Dave

[Mavin1]

I would again like to thank all of you for your support and expert advice, everyone has been very helpful and it is very much appreciated.
I currently have no casinos on my pc and am in no hurry to load any back for awhile until I have studied and absorbed all the advice that has been offered. Although I had many questions in the other thread that lead Simmo to creating the Transparency poll, I know it will probably be some time if at all for something like that to transpire with the online casinos. So while waiting, I can take my time as I said to study the advice from all here and hopefully it will help me as a micro player make better decisions to get more from the money I do spend and maybe this thread, as well as the similar ones, will also benefit others.

So once again, thank you all and I do mean all. I just keep running out of the thank you tabs, so they will be placed as soon as I get more.

[DaveG39]

In addition I'm predominantly a video poker player.

As far as the setting's on the RTP %, I feel that as long as their all somewhere in the 90's I think that's fair. But if someone get's special treatment as CasinoJack mentioned and offered, then we have a whole different issue.

What's fair is if the actual RTP is somewhere close to what it theoretically should be for the same game at a B&M casino (I'm referring to VP, since that's where you mention your expertise lies). Go to VPGenius.com and it will calculate it for you based on any given paytable (or PM me the game and paytable and I'll do it for you). If you'll except "something in the 90's" as fair then you are the type of player casinos live off of.