Casino owners/Reps and Affiliates and All Interested Players

[casinojack]

But then again Jack so were many other now rogue software operators are still categorized as being fair. According to Microgaming and Ecogra Grand Prive is fair. According to Prism RTG brand they say their fair. As far a visiting the RTG site all I see is blanks unless realtimegaming.com is the wrong URL.

As per the intent of this thread,

Based on the input I provided and others certainly raises some doubt as to the fairness of game play.

In addition Online Casinos are not regulated therefore what you see is not always what you get. The House Hold Percentage can be played with. However I will admit this is seldom the case and a vast majority of cyber casinos are indeed fair.

greek39

Sure greek, good point.

As far as rtg, you might need to google. their site is not to user friendly. As an affiliate I used a a search string that still works, in finding this info.I can PM you if you like or if you think a sec you might figure it out.Is an advanced search option but is public none the less.

[Wildfire7]

For TOC, I understand your point very well, but you have to admire KK and Vinylweatherman for being human enough to also understand the point of this post rather than just dismissing it or ignoring it as others have.
I feel that a good affiliate will continue to promote casinos that are rated as the places to play, this is their livelyhood afterall. But KK and Vinylweatherman are not promoting outright Rogues. And to ask them to quit their "jobs" because of changes, this is not reasonable in my opinion. But they cannot advertise the way you say as again this subject is difficult to prove without casinos actually stepping up to the plate and admitting, yes, we have cut paytables, yes we have cut frequency of bonus/freespin rounds or the triggers that make them happen.

If it ever does become established that yes, these changes have been made, it would not fall into a rogue situation in my opinion, just allow the playing public to be aware of such changes and allow us to decide if it's worth it to continue playing or move on, this is a more adult professional approach than to slip things under the radar on us.

So really it comes down to the casinos/platforms being the ones that need to be held accountable and fess up when changes are made, it's not that big of a deal for them to do this, just seems like good business sense to me.

Reps and Affiliates are just the unfortunate ones to have to stand in the front lines but aren't equipped to actually give total resolution to such a way back beyond the back door subject. This comes from the very top, but what Reps and Affilates can do is beat down the door that we at the bottom can't reach.

Good example of what it takes for people to get to the truth is how it took hackers to confiscate the evidence about the global warming scam. This drastic measure proved the deception. Do we the playing public have to resort to such measures?

Mavin

I have already shared with you my own opinions with you in this thread on page 1, so I do not intend to repeat comments I've already made.

However reading through this thread you have to understand that a forum is all about bringing together lots of opinions, some you will agree with, some you will disagree with and some you will think are rediculas. That is totally your perrogative.

So if somebody disagrees with you that does not mean that are dismissing you or ignoring you, nor does it mean they are somehow less human than people you do agree with. They are simply sharing their own views which you have to accept.

You seem very passionate about this particular topic, nothing wrong with that. But remember other people can be as equally passionate as to regards to their own views on the topic.

Mike

[daera]

Google is my friend... try typing these in google

site:realtimegaming.com marketing

There's a lot of info there. Look for the links with the specific games that you're interested in, and that say marketing.

[casinojack]

Google is my friend... try typing these in google

site:realtimegaming.com marketing

There's a lot of info there. Look for the links with the specific games that you're interested in, and that say marketing.

You on the right track, some VERY good stuff found there.

[Scooter7]

For RTG, there 100% is! The same goes for hitting the random jackpot, higher bet amount, increased chance.

(Hope i'm reading your statement correct)

Not quite. Random jackpots based on bet size are a bit of a thorn in my side. Yes, their trigger frequency is based on bet size, but the overall RTP doesn't change as your bet size changes. You pay more money to hit jackpots more frequently, but your individual return (and the size of the jackpots you win) is unchanged. Additionally, if your bet size is so great that you're hitting random jackpots a lot, it's very very likely that the jackpot amounts are insignificant to you relative to your wager.

Example:

If a 25-line, 1 cent per line player hits a $50 Marvel jackpot at Inter, it's a big deal on a $0.25 bet.
A 5 dollar per line player has 500x as great a chance of hitting the same jackpot, but a $50 payout on a $125 bet is (in my opinion) pretty ridiculous.

I think what we need to see are more games that give low-coin value players equal chances to win (proportionally) smaller jackpots. Sorry to keep bringing up Inter as an example (they are my favourite), but their Crazy Jackpot slot does exactly that. Whatever the jackpot hit rate is doesn't change with the coin value, but the jackpot size changes. This way the little guys are going to see the same number of wins as the high-rollers and the high-rollers' jackpots are going to be significant in comparison to their bet size-best of both worlds for big and small players alike.

[Mavin1]

Not quite. Random jackpots based on bet size are a bit of a thorn in my side. Yes, their trigger frequency is based on bet size, but the overall RTP doesn't change as your bet size changes. You pay more money to hit jackpots more frequently, but your individual return (and the size of the jackpots you win) is unchanged. Additionally, if your bet size is so great that you're hitting random jackpots a lot, it's very very likely that the jackpot amounts are insignificant to you relative to your wager.

Example:

If a 25-line, 1 cent per line player hits a $50 Marvel jackpot at Inter, it's a big deal on a $0.25 bet.
A 5 dollar per line player has 500x as great a chance of hitting the same jackpot, but a $50 payout on a $125 bet is (in my opinion) pretty ridiculous.

I think what we need to see are more games that give low-coin value players equal chances to win (proportionally) smaller jackpots. Sorry to keep bringing up Inter as an example (they are my favourite), but their Crazy Jackpot slot does exactly that. Whatever the jackpot hit rate is doesn't change with the coin value, but the jackpot size changes. This way the little guys are going to see the same number of wins as the high-rollers and the high-rollers' jackpots are going to be significant in comparison to their bet size-best of both worlds for big and small players alike.

Yes Scooter, very well said, THANK YOU!!!!

I being a US player can't help feeling that we are not only being forced out of the casino venue but also as a small player being forced to either wager more or bug off.
How many times do we get casino emails with events that are always based on the players with the higher wagers and such, we little players can't even participate in these promos.
They take away progressives, now taking away new games, cutting line wins and so on. It makes many of us feel that just because we can only spend $25 at a time that we aren't worth bothering with, we're peanuts and they only want the macadamias.
Then we have to contend with stupid laws perpetrated on the adult US citizens thus losing 75 percent of the brands that were available to us before and no longer are. So our choices have been greatly dimisnished and it's hard to accept that the value of our dollar is diminshed as well.
I would love to be playing at Intercasino again. I would love to have back the choices that the rest of the world has still available.
Keeping competition open to the wider market like it used to be probably made casinos more caring about all players since the did have to have the competitive edge.

I would like to also thank everyone personally for participating in this post. Although I do not always have the politically correct attitude I appreciate all posters.
We may butt heads, agree or disagree, but at least I feel we are making progress and that's all that really matters.
Some of you may think I don't like or agree with you and say this is healthy debate so accept it, well I have seen that not all of you have agreed with me either, I can accept it and those of you I did butt heads with I hope you can accept the same as well.
Afterall, it's not about me, it's about the little guy having a fair chance at a venue we also enjoy just as much as everyone else on this forum.

[joyceflorida]

Mavin - I just want to let you know I totally agree with your observations about online play. The difference in payouts, bonus rounds and lack of fair play is extremely noticeable. This dramatic decrease has been going on for quite some time now.

RTG has definitely shown this in games like T-Rex and crystal waters (which was great when it first came out). The answer comes down to greed. Maybe less players are depositing less in this economy and the casino needs to maintain it's profits, so it pays less. The software needed to be adjusted to insure this happens.

Whatever the reason, it's quite apparent and I believe most players will lose all their deposits 90% of the time. You're better off going to a land based casino where you can move to different machines and know that the difference there is "luck" and not casino operator intervention.

[Mavin1]

Thank you Joyceflorida for your input and support.

One of the things that many should keep in mind here is this debate has been going on for some time, long before I ever joined this forum and has escalated to today.
We are not complaining or whinning, because we are adults here and aren't looking to be stood in the corner for being dissobedient.
We know very well that we can have losing streaks just as we can have winning ones. But being players for a long time at many platforms we learn to know how they play and how they pay or not pay. We can recognize changes that go on behind the closed doors because these changes are and have been affecting the bottom line which is the players.
If we do not speak up and question things then just as in government and ruling classes they just keep throwing these changes in our face as they know many won't speak up or are affraid to speak up or simply don't care to speak up.
I believe there is nothing wrong with speaking up, questioning, researching or getting to the bottom of things if possible.
There is probably only about 1/3 maybe less of real players that visit forums let alone post on them. So with this in mind there may be hundreds/thousands/10's of thousands that are truly dissapointed to see changes in this multi-billion dollar business that is affecting the bottom line, the players, as we have all been witnessing over the years.

As for reps like casino jack, I don't pick on him personally but he did open the can of worms when he made the statement that he could change games for a player at his level.
It doesn't matter that "he" stated this, what matters is this reckless and cavalier attitude sabotages the last bits of trust that we the players have. It hurts the entire industry, owners, other reps, affiliates and most importantly the players themselves.

So I ask everyone reading this to please visit Simmo's thread to vote on Transparency in published expect returns (by game). Your vote does count and will hopefully make a difference. Then maybe we can get back to enjoying our time online and forums like this will hear less complaining.
Thank you

[bernynhel]

Sorry I've taken so long to post here, Mavin1. I've never been much of an RTG player so I can't comment on whether or not those sites are any better or worse than they've ever been. My luck has been down at Rival, lately, but I can't point any fingers there since it hasn't been that long of a losing streak. My last few months at Microgaming casinos has been the best it's been ever - in over 7 years - as far as consistent good hits at sites across the board are concerned. And me n 3Dice are cool, my reluctance to cash out in lieu of really puttin the "hurt" on 'em, notwithstanding. Wish I could be of more help.

[Mavin1]

Hi Bern, glad to have your input. The thread was really regarding all casinos not just the RTG's although they are usually the ones with the biggest complaints more constantly.
But as it was pointed out to me that I only have been referring to RNG's and Variances as being the culprit for such bad returns to so many long time players, but I should also have been speaking of RTP, this was a new term for me but made perfect sense, because if the RNG's and such haven't changed or stay within a certain range then the RTP is what is called into question here and maybe should have been all along.
But I think we fought a good fight which initiated a new thread for the transparency poll that was started by Simmo, thank you, many voted and now it is closed and hopefully something positive will come of it for all the players that continue to give their money in earnest to these online sites.
But as for me, I am pretty much done with online gaming. I have been playing for many years and have never been so dissapointed as I have been the last couple years.
For us being in the US our choices are pretty much in a box, there is nothing new, just more of the same ole popping up all the time and it's like eating oatmeal day after day after day, blah!
But thank you Bern.