Affiliate income - megabucks or not?

[JHV]

NO - I am NOT making money right now - I have in the past, but not now - and I don't know why.

So you got mad SEO skills - but you're not converting the traffic into $....

I'm thinking one or a combination of 3 things:

1. Your casino affiliate departments are screwing you.

2. You're attracting players that don't covert into $ due to incorrect structuring of your affiliate deals? (I don't know if you're using CAP or Rev Share [I think you've referred to the latter a couple times] or hybrids or a combination of all 3 - but if you are using some CPAs, maybe they've been structured too high to qualify your players on first deposit - example: I don't do any CPA stuff but was going to at one point. I had a $250 CPA offer where a qualifying first deposit was $200 and something like 500 raked hands [this is online poker - obv]. I said "Let's make that $50 min deposit and 50 raked hands to qualify" - and he just responded "Ok sure, no problem" - I never ended up using the CPA and I apologise if this is really basic stuff, but it shocked me a little how easily I was able to get him to change the qualifying terms and how huge an impact it would have on revenue).

3. You're attracting players who don't convert well into $ - i.e. people looking purely for free stuff because they simply don't have the money to gamble with. Have you considered using those mad SEO skills to get your stuff up there for searches NOT related to "no deposit"?

-----

Caveat: Just spit balling ideas, etc. I don't know squat really...

[dominique]

Re. testing:

Yes, you can test whether clicks, downloads and initial deposits are recorded properly by sending a friend to play, and I do it when I am suspicious. But it's near impossible to test for what's called "shaving" - i.e. removing players from your account and into the casino's account, removing some deposits from long term players, and all sorts of tinkering with statistics. There are no backend audits in this industry, and you have to operate on blind trust.

And yes, I think shaving is wide spread.

Re. google rankings:

They are nice, yes, they do bring people to look at your site and see your work and effort. But the real reason you get signups is because players found what they wanted when first they came and bookmarked your site. A site with over 50% bookmark traffic is a truly healthy site, and one that has earned trust and provides what people need.

As long as you depend entirely on google for traffic, you are in double jeopardy - google has proven over and over that it is fickle and just when you think you are sitting firmly in your positions you lose them. And you still have to contend with dishonest affiliate programs (shaving) and with breaches of contract.

Being an affiliate is indeed a slippery slope, your world changes from day to day and there are many factors that make it a gamble.

The one thing that you can really trust is players. The only way to create a stable, long term business under such precarious conditions is to put your players first - before programs and before google. Because in the end neither google nor casinos put bread on your table - players do.

Place your trust in players (easy to do if you are one yourself) and your players will trust you too. That is what makes everything tick - then you get word of mouth referrals and that is the best "thank you" you can get for your hard work.

Re. UIGEA -

yes, business is way down since then. But it's still good enough to hang in there.

And the future -

hardly any online business makes it without affiliates, big or small, old or new, land based or not, affiliates are the best promoters of online commerce and online commerce knows it. I trust this will hold true, no matter what casinos enter the market.

[WagerWitch]

Also JHV - *LMAO* thanks for your offer - FEEL FREE to play at my links

Anyhow Yes - I can explain why links move continuously.

As google bots run through the millions of pages daily - it shifts on what I BELIEVE to be an hourly basis now.

If you post a post to a blog - within 30 minutes it can be showing up - if you have your googlebot - or other spiderbots increased to be able to CRAWL your page that much.

I keep my site open and allow ALL robots - and allow ANYTIME crawl.

What this does is positions me constantly for whatever they crawl and results are IMMEDIATE for me.

However - what this also means is that my positions are NOT static and can be changed rapidly based on other sites jumping in and using this tactic as well...

OR GASP...

Something I DID.

For example: a new post with one too many keywords (regardless how they are used and if they are VALID content or not) can move me far down the line immediately upon crawl because the spider bot docks off points for certain "behavior" - calling it "spam" behavior - whether it is or not.

Or a repetitive type post for the same thing - can also knock me down...

However - some things can knock me back up (dang I sound like someone getting pregnant here)...

I just work with things and sort through things and see where they land me.

Google's algorythyms change continuously... And I think it depends primarily on whatever type of content they are working on at the time. For example - if they happen to be working on Advertising schemes for an Automaker - for some reason - any post with the word "CAR" in it - will bump up to the top - for no apparent reason...

And if they happen to be working on advertising about Chickens that live after getting their heads cut off --- well guess what - any words of "CHICKEN" are going to be culled closer to the top.

I think it may even have to do with their mood. *GRIN*

And yes... there was once a chicken who lived a very long time without his head. GOOGLE IT. LMAO!

Anyhow --- the point of my post is - that you have to watch what works and what doesn't on a daily - if not hourly basis.

Sometimes you'll stay on top - and somedays you will sink.

Google is volatile in that you can jockey positions within minutes.

Other search engines tend to stay more static.

So if you get in on the top with them - it is best to try to stay there - ALTHOUGH - 90% of people use Google.

Truth.

But that still does NOT equal traffic or customers.

And even though I can tell how many of my customers have clicked on to websites - and EVEN the websites themselves tell me how many impressions and or clicks - and downloads - I"M STILL NOT SEEING DEPOSITS BEING MADE in the last couple of months.

[WagerWitch]

So you got mad SEO skills - but you're not converting the traffic into $....

Exactly...

Sigh - I ought to think to get into another INDUSTRY completely - ROFLMAO.

I'd be worth something there. LOL!

[dominique]

.

And even though I can tell how many of my customers have clicked on to websites - and EVEN the websites themselves tell me how many impressions and or clicks - and downloads - I"M STILL NOT SEEING DEPOSITS BEING MADE in the last couple of months.

Firstly, test if the programs you promote actually record the clicks, downloads, signups and deposits accurately. That may well be your issue and if so, weed, weed, weed the bad ones out. Whether you like them or not. Bad accounting is bad accounting.

Secondly, if that doesn't correct the issue, rethink what you are offering to players. Is it what people really want? Is it EVERYTHING they want to know about it? Will they click through from your site, or will they go to another site to get additional info? Do you leave them with questions?

(BTW, as a side comment, some programs will show inflated clicks for certain websites, I have this issue with 3 programs and neither they nor me have figured out what causes it or how to correct it.)

Ask yourself what type person will like your site. Does it appeal to slot players or BJ players? What are the demographics of these players? Male or female, age group? Will they like your colors, layout, graphics?

Lots to think about there, if they are over 40 they need larger print, if they are under 30 they will be more in tune with fashionable colors, and and and....

I haven't looked at your site, these are just thoughts off the top of my head.

Lots of little things can make a big difference...

[WagerWitch]

First - Thanks for that very valuable reply D.. It is much appreciated the effort that you put into it.

I'm decent on marketing and demographics, etc. But I do really really appreciate that info. (Every site may not be what the clicker wants - LOL!)

I have counted clicks and have checked impressions against what I have going out.

Going out IMPS and I'd say about 85% of clicks are recorded appropriately with no inflation.

I'm not seeing deposits being made. That is the only difference in the last 3 months.

Now... Knowing that the economy has taken a downturn - I'd like to think YES - this is possible.

BUT - knowing that in the past every 50 downloaders = at least ONE depositor for first deposit - and seeing NO DEPOSITORS lately... Well I am NOT calling the casino aff software liars - but --- seriously 3 months?

And I had some depositors just stop - ALL AT ONCE?

Interesting - possible yes - but interesting all the same.

These are just thoughts I have - doesn't mean that the casinos ARE cheating - I just don't know HOW to check it.

[doomed4ever]

Really interesting thread - and a good insight to all view points. Im soon to launch my own gaming site which is a first for me. Luckily we wont need to rely on SE traffic as we are going to push traffic from our other sites. No idea if it will work out or not but am really looking forward to getting this going and see where it leads. I think though from all I have read so far money is to be earned without doubt so long as you have the right traffic - and can market a reasonble looking site/portal with honest reviews info etc of the products offered. Our none gaming business is heavily driven by affiliate sales and for sure the guys who sell our product and others in the same market can and do make mega bling. Its all about how much you want to put in - do the work and it will im sure pay.

[thelawnet]

I doubt it gets as much traffic as you would think. Especially as it is listed as a footnote blog link at the bottom. It is nevertheless a good achievement.

Up until recently when google had a minor earthquake of their serps, I ranked #5 for online casinos in google.co.uk. You would think that would bring in truck loads of traffic.

Whilst the traffic was nice, it was nowhere near as good as I would have expected.

Now adwords has opened up for gambling terms, it means it dilutes the clickthrus even further. 70% of all searches do not go past the number one ranked site. With the following 20% of searches sharing their clicks between 2nd and 3rd spot. The remaining 10% is then spread out. Reducing the further down the page you go.

I can't be bothered to check, so could somebody tell me what the adwords cost of 'online casino', 'roulette', 'blackjack', would be, to appear somewhere near the top ? (Here in the UK, William Hill and Ladbrokes are near the top, I suspect that's a combination of top dollar payments AND a good clickthrough from their brand recognition, so you can't simply pay $$$ to get to the top)

[WagerWitch]

I can't be bothered to check, so could somebody tell me what the adwords cost of 'online casino', 'roulette', 'blackjack', would be, to appear somewhere near the top ? (Here in the UK, William Hill and Ladbrokes are near the top, I suspect that's a combination of top dollar payments AND a good clickthrough from their brand recognition, so you can't simply pay $$$ to get to the top)

I can tell you to be in the top 10 of ANY keyword in Google that is related to Gambling does not TAKE dollars - it takes PERSISTENCE - Groups of people working - link connection - back links, permalinks, do follow, no follow - it takes creating your HTML to be read by Googlebots properly.

It takes time and massive efforts.

You cannot PAY to get to the top in Google any longer - FEATURED LINKS are the pay sites --- AND --- to get to the top --- You might have to PAY people to work for you --- or pay people to link you....

It's pretty mafia oriented.

LOL - ok - not mafia - but blackhat seo tricks are bad - because they require beating out other people by stealing their tricks and inflating links that do not exist - but that you created.

I could go out and make 10000 blogs that pointed back to WagerWitch - but I don't because that would be WRONG.

It isn't real...

But you cant pay Google for top placement.

And Google kinda "technically" frowns on Online Casinos - at least USA.

WW


PS - I twittered this Thread out --- We might get some response - I would really like to see folks talking about all of this stuff - if you don't mind.

Thank you for this thread in the first place - it has really given some interesting conversation.

I''m of the belief that the affiliates need to stand together and create a WHOLE... Because separately we're going to fail.

Like D said - WE ARE STRONG together.

[thelawnet]

I can tell you to be in the top 10 of ANY keyword in Google that is related to Gambling does not TAKE dollars - it takes PERSISTENCE - Groups of people working - link connection - back links, permalinks, do follow, no follow - it takes creating your HTML to be read by Googlebots properly.

It takes time and massive efforts.

You cannot PAY to get to the top in Google any longer - FEATURED LINKS are the pay sites --- AND --- to get to the top --- You might have to PAY people to work for you --- or pay people to link you....

I'm talking about the paysites - adwords.

People are willing to pay up to $100 per click for certain key words.

I just checked adwords for 'online casino' and 'online blackjack' and it said £0.37-£0.55 for online blackjack and £0.44-£0.66 for online casino. Which seems relatively cheap.