Responsiblity?

[bb28]

I just have a problem with telling someone they are an addict, when we dont know the whole story and facts behind it, this almost seems like outing someone, as she was tring to chase a loss, now how many are guilty of that? may be a whole lot of addicts on Casinomeister, its not for us or the casinos to police the forum looking for out of control gamblers imo unless they say i have a problem and need help.

I really dont like the fact of crossing threads and putting Heidi's name out there, so now she will be seen as a problem gambler, not cool at all imo...........laurie

Laurie...I didn't say it, she did and it's already out there, so come on, don't make this about me outing her. That isn't fair. Again.....I am not here to hurt her or embarrass her, and I apologize to her that it's turning into this which just puzzles the hell out of me. It's not about judgement of any individual, it's about the responsiblity of a casino and the discussion of that topic. It's not about us as a forum policing anyone or deciding who is an addict or not, it's about a casino's responsiblity in dealing with a possible addict.

IMO.....your above post just magnified all that stuff that doesn't belong in this thread.

Now can we get back on the topic??

[JHV]

As I'm sure everyone posting in this thread is already aware (at least, on some level); this is an incredibly complex and hazy issue we're discussing. As someone who's been on the 'embarrassing' (addiction / lack of self-discipline) side of it, I'm probably going to surprise some people with my arguments.

Which simply are: I don't think the casinos can be expected to go out of their way to help people who are clearly problem gamblers. It's simply not their job - actually, their 'job' is to target that very market.

Online casinos should not be held to Mother Theresa standards. It's both unreasonable and illogical. To use a really crude example, it would be like a fast food chain deciding to turn away any customer who (for example) has a BMI over 29. Like, people have to take a level of personal responsibility for their actions. Some are able to, some are not. We should not ridicule those that cannot - addiction is very complex and real issue that I doubt anyone in the world TRULY understands fully. The human brain is complex in ways the smartest of us can not even begin to fathom, imo.

Here is what I expect online casinos to be held accountable for - in terms of minimal ethical standards of behaviour (when faced with this specific issue):

1. No lies. Ever. Full-stop. Never misrepresent, never twist or spin your language - just clear, direct, no-nonsense approach.

2. Targeting these players with promotions is ok and ethical, imo. And it's good business. So long as the promotions are fair and honest and don't include complicated 'strings attached' or 'fine print' (*that* would be unethical).

3. It is not the casino's job to involve themselves in the personal lives of their customers. They are selling some products that, by their very nature and spin limits, are targeted at problem gamblers (unless we're all multi-millionaires and can afford $200 Spins at 4/sec autoplay - I know I do not fall into this category, and know VERY few people who ever would). It's illogical to expect a casino to block a perfectly suited customer from their product. All we can hope for...all we can try to demand...is honesty in their delivery of that product - the rest is up to the player, their family and their social networks.

4. Cashout rules nonsense. Every casino is guilty of this to some degree. And online poker room. With the exception of Full Tilt. There is no reason why your funds should not INSTANTLY land in your payment processing account like Moneybookers or NETeller. Stalling on payouts is unethical. LYING to players about payout "problems", "complications", "delays", "limits", "ID requirements", etc etc etc - ALL very unethical. Anything that's in place to prevent any casino player (whether they have a problem or not) from withdrawing their money fast and easily - or any measure in place designed to stall or otherwise frustrate the player attempting to withdraw - is unethical. Hugely unethical, imo.

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In summary:

* Ensure your games are 'fair' - in terms of how they operate and house policies should there be server disconnects or obvious player errors should be clear and logical and standardised and "in the spirit of the game" - if a player does $6,000,000 in wagering ALL at Max Coin, then the server disconnects, he logs back in some time later and does a single spin at Min Coin (1 spin) - and the casino refuses to pay him at the coin he OBVIOUSLY intended to spin on that ONE spin - that's unethical.

* Make sure your promotions are not littered with unethical 'hidden' clauses or fine print or unnecessary complexities or misleading language usage. T&C's are required, advantage players are a serious threat, but these T&C's must be clearly written, everything clean and "face-up" (so to speak)

* When a player wants to cashout...LET THEM. Process their cashout fast. To stall in any way, shape or form is unethical. To directly lie to your players, either to stall for longer or to directly frustrate them, is the height of unethical behaviour, imo. That's just pure evil right there, in so much as I personally define 'evil'.

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Online casinos who do not adhere to the above MINIMUM ethical standards in the conduct of their operations should be dragged publicly through the mud for being shameful.

Expecting online casinos to block players who haven't self-requested blocking, is both inappropriate and unreasonable.

But by Jove and all the gods, when a player requests a self-ban, you act and you act fast - any delay is unethical.

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That's pretty much a quickly written summary of my objective opinions on the matter.

[bb28]

Thank you for your response JHV. I don't agree with all you said but the discussion of the topic is what is important.
I don't have time to elaborate but I think casino's should have some responsiblity in monitoring players and looking for signs of a problem and then shutting that account down if certain criteria are met. It would be nice to hear from a rep what guidelines they use if it comes to that.


Since Enzo is a respected rep around here, I'd like to hear what guidelines they use. Enzo?

[GGW Laurie]

Very sorry M. Bonita, i understand this is something you feel strongly about and i respect that..........side note: to Enzo and my other casinos, im not a problem gambler, i just love your casinos

Im still upset with TIV and that to me shows a poor ran casino and staff...........laurie

[silcnlayc]

it's about a casino's responsiblity in dealing with a possible addict.

The responsibility lies on the gamblers shoulder, totally, not the casino. The casino is there to make a buck, not babysit grown adults and having to play nanny to them when it fits the gamblers agenda....

But if one should ask to be banned, then the casino should honor this request. Period.

.

[bb28]

I appreciate your response and your opinion silcnlayc. Clear and to the point.

[De Beuker]

I don't think a casino has any responsibility monitoring for problem gamblers, its their business, and it would cost them loads of time and money.
The larger casino's have thousands of players, they would have to hire qualified personell for it.
I also think many people would feel insulted if they were labelled as an addict/problem gambler by a casino and take their business elsewhere.

I remember reading an old thread a while ago, can't find it unfortunately, about SlotoCash, they had closed someone's account due to excessive gambling, well, the person was not at all happy with that to say the least..

You cannot help an addicted person until that person admits he/she has a problem and needs help.
So if anyone asks a casino to close account, they have to do so immediately, don't think we can expect more.

[vegetagirl2008]

I really don't think she openly admitted she has a problem. Only people in denial will not mention that fact. She stated she lost 15,000 in playing the penny within a months time which is astounding. Now she wants to find out what happened to the comps and bonuses she was suppose to receive. Luckily they didn't close her account. But when the switch is off it stays off. I'm gathering they labeled her as a problem gambler.

[bb28]

I really don't think she openly admitted she has a problem. Only people in denial will not mention that fact. She stated she lost 15,000 in playing the penny within a months time which is astounding. Now she wants to find out what happened to the comps and bonuses she was suppose to receive. Luckily they didn't close her account. But when the switch is off it stays off. I'm gathering they labeled her as a problem gambler.

The poster's direct quote from here, " Stupid gambling addiction. "

So yes she did state that, and I did not start this thread until after she made that post out of concern for her. Again my concern here is not the matter of whether or not she is or not, but I started this thread in hopes of a discussion about the responsiblity that a casino should have when dealing with someone who displays signs of a problem. I'm the first to admit that I don't know what signs they look for but as I've said before I'd like to hear it from an official rep of a casino.
Again.....this thread is going somewhere else instead of talking about an issue.

[vegetagirl2008]

Yup your are right she did admit this. But I think the casino is just a vehicle for her entertainment and yes the casino should oblige her in this case. Sorry for the derail I didn't see the second page of the thread. But she should not deposit there until she finds out whats going on. If she can afford to play then so be it. She know the risks of gambling. All we can do is advise her.