I now accuse RTG/Bodog of cheating!

[love2winalot]

Hiya: I never thought i would say it, but there yo go, i did. I thought it was just bad luck on my part, or bad timing, or coiencidence.

Pick 5 numbers out of 2000+. Now pick them in the order that they are drawn. The odds of this are what? Hell I don't know. Here is what happened to me, in 5 times in over 2000 sessions played.

Roulette.
Bet on numbers not hitting equally.
Bet the numbers that are hitting the most.
play 111 spins at a time. 37 numbers x 3 sessions = 111.
Record all results. what # hit, when, how many times ect.

Keep Records of the most anything has / has not happened.
If you are going to chase a betting sequence, make the game break an existing set record to beat you.
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Record: The most spins in a row until a # will hit 5 times is?
Existing record going in after 9 years of playing almost daily was 65 spins.

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So, if i see that the game has gone over 55-60 spins, and there are a few numbers that have hit 4 times, "between 3-8 on average, but none of them have hit 5 times, i bet those numbers, using a progression that will take be 2 spins past the existing record.

This is what has happened at Bodog/RTG software. I have made this bet many times. I have only make this bet, using a progression 5 times, in over 2000 sessions. here are the results.

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Record is 65 spins. First # to hit 5 times hits on spin 69. = bankroll lost
New Record is now 69 spins. first # to hit 5 times hits on spin 74. = lost
Record is now 74. Hits on spin 77= bankroll lost
Record is 77, hits on 80 = bankroll lost.
Record is 80. Today is went up to 85+ and bankroll lost.
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This is the 5 times it happened. It NEVER HAPPENED any other times. It only happened when i was repeating the bet, and using a progression. My bankroll was $1640, betting 7 numbers.

To put this in an easy perspective think about this. I will flip a penny 2000 times in a row. You bet $1 on each flip guessing heads or tails. Some where along the line, you will bet a progression that Heads will hit. You only get to make this bet, "Progression on Heads" , 5 times in the 2000 flips. You make the bet 5 times, and every time you make the bet, it hits Tails 10 or more times in a row, and increases the number in a row it hits Tails, each time.

Sorry, but that is so far away from varience, that something is just plain wrong. I e mailed them 3 times.
1st: I got the canned response.
2nd: They will not refund me, and did not actually read my complaint.
3rd: No Response.
I contacted the Wizardofodds thru e mail to help, as it was his banner i used to sign up with. Anyhoo, no more Bodog/RTG for me, unless they can convince me that i am cursed or something.

I do not know if this is something Casinomeister would look into or not. I am just very disappointed, and posting the results of what happened, just as i have always done since coming to this board. Off to find a new place to play i guess..........

[DarkMage]

Before the guppies come in and say "You need million's of spins to determine if it's rigged"...

I agree with you.....

I was once a very heavy player at Bodog.....Closed my account in disgust at their blackjack. The differences between the play and real mode were night and day....Bodog changed in a big way a few months ago.

But..hey...It's just variance right

Sticking to the brick and motor for anything over $500 nowadays, I don't trust RTG software in general.

[love2winalot]

Hiya: It is not millions of spins, but it is exactly 20,979 spins, i just counted them, , yea i need a life, Like i said i only pressed my bets 5 times in all those spins, and LOST each time, and the pattern that made me lose only came up in those exact 5 times i was betting larger than normal.

After a while you stop thinking, "This is what you get for being greedy, and trying to win more than a few $ at a time", and you start thinking/asking, "Why does this only happen when i press my bets"?

[TOC]

You might want to contact the following company before moving forward and see what their doing first.

[casinojack]

99% f the online casino software allows you to adjust decks in blackjack. Nothing in RTG has any type of setting re: roulette and pressing bets.

[Westland Bowl]

There is one thing I've wondered about the testing and certification of online casino games. It appears the testing only uses the flat bet method. I'm sure nearly all casino games are judged "fair" and "random" while flat-betting. But how about testing the randomness when a betting progression is used? For example, it appears to me that losing more than 7 blackjack hands in a row happen with a lot more frequency than normal blackjack statistics suggest during times when I use a betting progression.

[Pinababy69]

I read your post real quick last night Love2Win...and was hoping I'd come here today to a bunch of replies. I know we have alot of people here who are into probabilities, randomness and mathematical possibilities.

Your post is so far above me, that I don't have a clue. I also don't play roulette, never have.....but from your posts, it sure seems to me that you know your stuff when it comes to table games...similar to the way that Rusty knows his when it comes to slots. You also don't strike me as the type to start a thread like this just because you had a bad run.

I hope more posters weigh in on this one.

[Rusty]

Am I reading this right?

You are saying you spin away until you see a sequence that has several numbers (4,5,6 or 7 of them) that have hit Four times within 55 - 60 spins?
(That should be quite a rare event within itself I would think.)
You then bet progressively from that point on these numbers?

You then say that the record without hitting a number you were betting was 65 spins total from the sample block of results?
So for 9 Years you had only waited anything between 1 and 9 spins to hit One of your numbers until this session?

I will assume the answer is yes to all of those for now.

For the sake of argument let's say taking a rough average using your system you bet on average 5 numbers.
Also let's assume the RNG is not predictable or tampered with.
That would mean you have around a 1 in 7 chance of hitting one of your numbers or on average you would wait around 7 spins to hit a number.
I am deliberately ignoring previous results because if the game is fair it has no memory and each spin gives an equal chance of any number.

So looking at this on face value I would say the most remarkable statistic is that you never waited more than 9 spins in 9 Years of playing this system to hit one of your numbers. (That if correct, depending on how many times this occurred, may well suggest a problem with the RNG but this would not be deliberate as such patterns are very much to the Casinos disadvantage providing there is no adjustment of results by the software)

It is odd that the table crushed your system 5 times in a row each time with a longer streak of losses but it is also odd that your system never came unstuck for 9 Years previously.
They are both unlikely results but one was in your favour and the other certainly was not.
Your actual individual losing streaks are not as unlikely as you might imagine because you are essentially saying,
"I backed between 4 and 7 numbers numbers (usually 4) and went between 1 and 24 spins before I hit one."

Having 5 of these losing streaks together however and each one being progressively longer than the last - especially when you are adapting your betting style to account for each streak - is worthy of suspicion though.

If you had only ever watched for 9 Years and then made your bets and this streak occurred and someone else could repeat it then personally I would consider that as evidence of a rigged game but what you have here is Two anomalous sets of results, one that worked in your favour and one that did not so this in itself IMO is not proof of a rigged game or cheating.

That does not mean I am saying I am sure the game is 100% fair or that you were not somehow cheated as you claim - I really don't know as I don't play RTG roulette and I don't have all the stats - I am just giving you my neutral perspective on what you experienced.

[chuchu59]

I dont play roulette much but I play Baccarat. All lovers of this game know that the banker bet has a slight advantage over the player bet and that is why a commission of 5% is charged if you win on the banker bet. However, if you bet exclusively on banker like and many others, RTG is probably the only software where, after a large number of hands, your wins on banker are less than your losses. This is not possible, at least not for everyone given the banker has a built-in advantage. I recall Slotswizard (havent seen him in awhile) also had the same observation as me. The number of player wins exceed the banker wins and that is over thousands of hands and that is statistically not very possible. Anyone plays Baccarat like I do and what are your results?

[big_mac]

I'm not sure I understand this correctly either.
Only 65 spins was the previous longest until a number hits five times?

My quick simulation says that it is above 65 about 1 time in 4; so if this has never happened in 2000 sessions then something is seriously wrong. That something could be my code though!