Another Top Game screw up

[bb28]

Originally Posted by RomeCasino

Well it isn't official yet, but I was given to understand that is the decision. So lets wait for the player to be informed first.

Cheers

Noah

Sounds like you are backtracking? In your previous post you sounded pretty sure.


Keep us posted, please.

[binshakindown]

has assisted in getting results. That is in my book is, One “right-on” for you. Although it is a disappointment that it "appears" that the reason the player is getting paid is due to the potential pressure from the on-line community. However, ISN'T THIS AWESOME? Who needs government intervention (well maybe except for the rogues). I tend to think that this process is not only more efficient, but allows for more involvement by all invested parties.

Again, it is nice to see GPWA, CM, it's posters, and casino reps working towards keeping participating on-line casinos in check.

[RomeCasino]

Originally Posted by bb28

Sounds like you are backtracking? In your previous post you sounded pretty sure.


Keep us posted, please.

To be completely honest with you, I was told they are paying the player but I realized after I posted that it isn't my place to speak for them in this without their consent, and especially not if they haven't told the player yet. I was just glad to tell you guys and I jumped to post too quickly. You live and you learn I guess

Cheers

Noah

[RomeCasino]

Hey people I just wanted to say I will be posting a long reply today, sorry its taking so long but I'm waiting on answers from a few different people, I promise I will answer everything possible and also update you about some other things we've been talking about. I appreciate the patience I'm hoping you have

Kind Regards,

Noah

[RomeCasino]

OK.

So I've gathered the questions I think you posted, I deleted those that repeated themselves and those that are on the same subject. So I copied your question and added an answer one by one.


Also I'm happy to tell you that TopGame has begun its TST certification and over the next month our games will be going through their review process, anything TST deems needs fixing will be fixed before we can get their certification.

QUESTIONS

"A couple of the questions I'd most like to see answered are:"

- You have two jackpot games that require a $45 bet (9 liner) and a $65 bet (13 liner) to be able to win the progressive. How is this at all reasonable?

- Its not. I have spoken to TST representatives and to the TopGame people and all agree, so you can expect that to be done alongside the TST process, and to end much before, any coin value will be able to win the jackpot.

And to go with the above question....there was another thread brought up re: a screenshot that was supposed to be provided to the forum here...a player had gotten the five wilds, but received an almost non existent payout for five wilds...I "think" maybe a few times his original bet. Of course, he was under the assumption he had won the jackpot I guess...but wasn't betting the actual MAX (as above). But still....almost zero payout for five wilds? Is this correct? I may have to find the link to the thread itself so you'll get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

- I read the thread but I don't know the details exactly - why did things happen the way they did, and no screenshot has been submitted to clear things up. Also I don't want to talk for Thebes in this matter, bad enough I did that with planet23 I'm still waiting for the screenshot. But I'm sure there should be some payout and I will check that out further just to be on the safe side.

No explanation (If Pinababy's timeline is correct) as to why the Jackpot was removed before the games were removed because of the fault.


- I'm presuming this is about the missing symbol in Fandango. The error happened in the jackpot version of the game only, after the problem was discovered that version was pulled down, the video slots version was later taken off for review just in case and honestly so players don't think the game is still in there.

No explanation as to why the Jackpot games were being tampered with and No explanation as to how these changes caused the missing Wilds -

- They were not tampered with, there was an update that included the graphics engine and it caused a glitch, we now know it was purely graphical, not that excuses it, it should have never happened, and you know my opinion on it.


No explanation as to how the RTP is calculated - are these Bingo slots where prizes are preselected and the slot reels merely a graphic representation of the result and not true slots?

- These are true slots, however the game acted as if the symbol was there.


No explanation as to what 5 Wild symbols pay if the game is not played at $45 and $65 a spin. -It appears this may be nothing!

- As I said I am unsure of the circumstances and the betting lines, lets wait for a screenshot and see, in any case there should be a payout if the wilds are on a payline.

No explanation or mock screenshot provided of the 5 Wilds that a player hit on a 45c bet but only won under $5 from other combinations.
- still waiting for that too.

I'm sure I missed some questions, if you don't mind putting them up again I'll answer whatever you wish to ask. Just remember I don't represent individual casinos, so keep it in regards to Rome Casino or TopGame itself.

Kind Regards,

Noah
Rome Casino

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by RomeCasino

OK.

So I've gathered the questions I think you posted, I deleted those that repeated themselves and those that are on the same subject. So I copied your question and added an answer one by one.


Also I'm happy to tell you that TopGame has begun its TST certification and over the next month our games will be going through their review process, anything TST deems needs fixing will be fixed before we can get their certification.

QUESTIONS

"A couple of the questions I'd most like to see answered are:"

- You have two jackpot games that require a $45 bet (9 liner) and a $65 bet (13 liner) to be able to win the progressive. How is this at all reasonable?

- Its not. I have spoken to TST representatives and to the TopGame people and all agree, so you can expect that to be done alongside the TST process, and to end much before, any coin value will be able to win the jackpot.

And to go with the above question....there was another thread brought up re: a screenshot that was supposed to be provided to the forum here...a player had gotten the five wilds, but received an almost non existent payout for five wilds...I "think" maybe a few times his original bet. Of course, he was under the assumption he had won the jackpot I guess...but wasn't betting the actual MAX (as above). But still....almost zero payout for five wilds? Is this correct? I may have to find the link to the thread itself so you'll get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

- I read the thread but I don't know the details exactly - why did things happen the way they did, and no screenshot has been submitted to clear things up. Also I don't want to talk for Thebes in this matter, bad enough I did that with planet23 I'm still waiting for the screenshot. But I'm sure there should be some payout and I will check that out further just to be on the safe side.

No explanation (If Pinababy's timeline is correct) as to why the Jackpot was removed before the games were removed because of the fault.


- I'm presuming this is about the missing symbol in Fandango. The error happened in the jackpot version of the game only, after the problem was discovered that version was pulled down, the video slots version was later taken off for review just in case and honestly so players don't think the game is still in there.

No explanation as to why the Jackpot games were being tampered with and No explanation as to how these changes caused the missing Wilds -

- They were not tampered with, there was an update that included the graphics engine and it caused a glitch, we now know it was purely graphical, not that excuses it, it should have never happened, and you know my opinion on it.


No explanation as to how the RTP is calculated - are these Bingo slots where prizes are preselected and the slot reels merely a graphic representation of the result and not true slots?

- These are true slots, however the game acted as if the symbol was there.


No explanation as to what 5 Wild symbols pay if the game is not played at $45 and $65 a spin. -It appears this may be nothing!

- As I said I am unsure of the circumstances and the betting lines, lets wait for a screenshot and see, in any case there should be a payout if the wilds are on a payline.

No explanation or mock screenshot provided of the 5 Wilds that a player hit on a 45c bet but only won under $5 from other combinations.
- still waiting for that too.

I'm sure I missed some questions, if you don't mind putting them up again I'll answer whatever you wish to ask. Just remember I don't represent individual casinos, so keep it in regards to Rome Casino or TopGame itself.

Kind Regards,

Noah
Rome Casino

Thank you for trying to address these issues Noah.

Regarding the Jackpot game being removed.
Pina will be able to give the detail on this but the concern was that the Jackpot total itself was removed before the actual game.
Also the fact the game was left in circulation despite the know faults.
Obviously if Jackpot total was removed before the actual game this would give more cause for concern so can you give us the time-line on that please.

The greatest concern was the live changes to the slot.
You say it was a graphic update (the evidence still suggests tampering, read on) but players noticed no change to the game graphically so can you tell us specifically what graphics were being updated?
Why was there only updates to the Jackpot slot and no graphic update of the none Jackpot versions of the slots?
Also how is it possible only Wild symbols for reel 1 and 5 were affected and not the same symbol for reels 2,3 and 4?

You say these are genuine slots which means prizes are calculated according to the 5 Reel stop positions and paytabe.
This means there is still a conflict between the argument that Wild symbols were missing but payout was not affected.
If for example there are only 34 Symbols instead of 35 on reel One and the Wild symbol is symbol 35 (missing) but RNG is still returning 35 as a valid stop position where would the reel stop?
This should either cause the game to crash or malfunction in that payouts are awarded for non paying combinations because depending on how the slot is programmed it either has no valid stop position or the Wild symbol is represented by another symbol(probably altering each game)
It is possible that overall RTP was not affected though but this would mean the Jackpot could still be won so for the sake of argument and so you understand the relevance of the above what would the Jackpot combination of been if not 5 Wilds which was impossible?
Topgame have already stated in this forum that making the Jackpot impossible to win was not intentional so as you can see there is much contradiction here which is why tampering should still be considered a possible cause of the fault until a proper explanation can be given.

Now for the issues that appear to have been or are being addressed.

Everybody now agrees that the wager required to win the Jackpots was ludicrous so obviously it begs the question as to why it was implemented in the first place.
The Casinos agree yet they were happily letting their customers wager on this game even when there was a known fault.
OK so bad form but it is being changed which is a step forward toward the light. Still pitch Black though.

I think we all also agree that no payout for 5 Wild symbols is also ludicrous.
Slots can have zero win for 5 Wilds (as long as it is clearly detailed in the paytable) but it is completely illogical and counter intuitive for the player - watch those complaints roll in!
Only a masochistic crack smoking Monkey would design such a slot.
No doubt this is being addressed too (if not I give up) so take another step toward the light. Still Black.

So even though we were misinformed that TST testing had commenced a couple of Months ago by Topgame themselves we are now being told it is just getting under way.
No worries, at least it is being done and this is a very important and large step forward. I think I can see something in the distance.

Topgame Casinos have shown a willingness to listen to complaints and act upon them but this is quite erratic at the moment, Two steps forward One step back it seems but at least you are moving forward. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel?

Of course there are still huge issues regarding the original debacle regarding the missing Wild symbols and why the Jackpot winning wager requirement was set so high. TST testing will assuage some of these fears if not the memory of how it was handled.
The full Jackpot total was returned to the game right?

At the moment it is just a case of players keeping a watching brief and seeing if Topgame and its operators can one Day step into the light.

[kiahs1982]

oops sorry you guys this is my test account I set up way back. Writing from home not work.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by kiahs1982

oops sorry you guys this is my test account I set up way back. Writing from home not work.

No worries Noah, see you soon.

[kiahs1982]

Thanks Posting now.

[RomeCasino]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Thank you for trying to address these issues Noah.

Regarding the Jackpot game being removed.
Pina will be able to give the detail on this but the concern was that the Jackpot total itself was removed before the actual game.
Also the fact the game was left in circulation despite the know faults.
Obviously if Jackpot total was removed before the actual game this would give more cause for concern so can you give us the time-line on that please.

The greatest concern was the live changes to the slot.
You say it was a graphic update (the evidence still suggests tampering, read on) but players noticed no change to the game graphically so can you tell us specifically what graphics were being updated?
Why was there only updates to the Jackpot slot and no graphic update of the none Jackpot versions of the slots?
Also how is it possible only Wild symbols for reel 1 and 5 were affected and not the same symbol for reels 2,3 and 4?

You say these are genuine slots which means prizes are calculated according to the 5 Reel stop positions and paytabe.
This means there is still a conflict between the argument that Wild symbols were missing but payout was not affected.
If for example there are only 34 Symbols instead of 35 on reel One and the Wild symbol is symbol 35 (missing) but RNG is still returning 35 as a valid stop position where would the reel stop?
This should either cause the game to crash or malfunction in that payouts are awarded for non paying combinations because depending on how the slot is programmed it either has no valid stop position or the Wild symbol is represented by another symbol(probably altering each game)
It is possible that overall RTP was not affected though but this would mean the Jackpot could still be won so for the sake of argument and so you understand the relevance of the above what would the Jackpot combination of been if not 5 Wilds which was impossible?
Topgame have already stated in this forum that making the Jackpot impossible to win was not intentional so as you can see there is much contradiction here which is why tampering should still be considered a possible cause of the fault until a proper explanation can be given.

Now for the issues that appear to have been or are being addressed.

Everybody now agrees that the wager required to win the Jackpots was ludicrous so obviously it begs the question as to why it was implemented in the first place.
The Casinos agree yet they were happily letting their customers wager on this game even when there was a known fault.
OK so bad form but it is being changed which is a step forward toward the light. Still pitch Black though.

I think we all also agree that no payout for 5 Wild symbols is also ludicrous.
Slots can have zero win for 5 Wilds (as long as it is clearly detailed in the paytable) but it is completely illogical and counter intuitive for the player - watch those complaints roll in!
Only a masochistic crack smoking Monkey would design such a slot.
No doubt this is being addressed too (if not I give up) so take another step toward the light. Still Black.

So even though we were misinformed that TST testing had commenced a couple of Months ago by Topgame themselves we are now being told it is just getting under way.
No worries, at least it is being done and this is a very important and large step forward. I think I can see something in the distance.

Topgame Casinos have shown a willingness to listen to complaints and act upon them but this is quite erratic at the moment, Two steps forward One step back it seems but at least you are moving forward. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel?

Of course there are still huge issues regarding the original debacle regarding the missing Wild symbols and why the Jackpot winning wager requirement was set so high. TST testing will assuage some of these fears if not the memory of how it was handled.
The full Jackpot total was returned to the game right?

At the moment it is just a case of players keeping a watching brief and seeing if Topgame and its operators can one Day step into the light.

Hi Rusty,

Thank you for the latter part of your post, I understand the mixed feelings and I appreciate you being neutral in your viewpoint.

I think I made a mistake when answering the question regarding the graphics, and from there stems the confusion. If you'll read I said I was referring to the missing symbol problem we talked about some time ago. Regarding the missing jackpot which I now understand is the issue, I'm not sure if this was done by TopGame or the casino itself, can you please direct me to the thread with the screen shot of the jackpot before and after? I will take that to TopGame and find a real answer for you, with a why and a when (both past and future). I will contact Pina for that information as well.

As regarding the true slots/graphics issue - What I'm saying is that the game behaved as if the symbol was there, the only problem was cosmetic, meaning there was a glitch in the graphics, it did not involve other areas of the game engine and that is why no one was affected or actually claimed to be as I understand it. Of course it was a horrible mistake because we cannot ask players to trust a slots machine that has missing symbols, that's why we have been devoting many hours lately to QA and have finally begun the TST process, which should hopefully end within the month, its in their hands and I hope that we'll live up to the standard, even if you don't think we have one yet I promise you we do, and ever strive to solve any issues that fall beneath it.

Kind Regards,

Noah

Rome Casino