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Originally Posted by RockbetJohn
MILLIONS
If Rockbet has even ONE million players signed up I would say the level of multiple account fraud must be VERY high there
If HONEST players are getting these bizarre requests, they HAVE to be doing something "wrong" during the registration process. Unfortunately, there is NO-ONE to teach them what they SHOULD be doing.
Most players who have posted about having to send a photo of them holding their documents have then been cleared. They were HONEST, but it was the CASINO reading something into their details that simply wasn't there.
We have made mention before that this industry relies on trust between player & casino. It seems however that casinos DON'T trust players at all, yet the same casinos are taken aback when it is PLAYERS questioning THEIR integrity.
Making a photo of yourself holding your ID is not all that difficult, but I'll bet the "non cooperation" seen on this has more to do with the player feeling slighted (in effect, branded a liar), and digging their heels in and demanding what should be the right of an honest player, which is simply to be treated with respect, and like any other customer.
If casinos are so worried about players using other people's data, they are in the wrong business, since online it is far easier to pass oneself off as another, and photo ID makes NO DIFFERENCE, since the casino do NOT actually MEET the player as they enter the premises.
The purpose of putting photo's on IDs was for FACE TO FACE verification, and the ONLY way a casino is going to get anywhere NEAR this is to.... you've guessed it.... ask for a photo of them holding their ID
This argument is a case for it being ROUTINE to ask for a photo of a player holding their ID, not a "one in a million" scenario.
As to the number of players posting here about being asked to send a picture of themselves holding their documents, some lengthy research through thousands of posts may reveal some, but a poll might reveal more.
It IS around half a dozen who have posted this particular oddity, and it is definitely FAR more common now than before, otherwise there would have been complaints of this going back for years.
There are a lot of long time players who remember when it was "one in a million" to be asked for ANY ID if using certain deposit methods. Somehow, the casinos back then had other ways of verifying the details players used to register their accounts, and thus were happy with that when these certain deposit methods were used for both deposits and withdrawals. I also remember that casinos would actually pay your withdrawal to your requested method, no argument, no bullshit - suddenly they "can't" (or rather "won't") again using bullshit to distance themselves from the decision by using "circumstances out of control" as the general format of the excuse. Long time players don't believe a word of this, casinos were able to "control" these "circumstances" back in 2005, yet with 4 years of advances, now cannot.
New players don't see this, and may well swallow the bullshit about "routine", but long term players know when "routine" is not happening.
Taking this to the extreme, which again may be "routine" by 2012, it could be near impossible for players new to a particular casino to pass verification without a great deal of trouble and anguish, yet at the same time be enjoying great service at the casinos they have become loyal to.
The result of this will be that players will be increasingly reluctant to try a new (to them) casino because they know they might face these problems. This will inhibit new casinos especially, but will also inhibit the process of competition among casinos for the players who already play online regularly. In particular, once a player has suffered an "extraordinary" request such as being asked for a photo of themselves holding their documents, they may consider themselves "tainted", and even MORE likely to face similar problems in the future, with the fear being that the seed of suspicion has been sown, and recorded in a database, and they may NOT be so lucky at the next casino with MERELY being asked for this photo of themselves holding the documents, but face an outright confiscation of winnings and an undefendable allegation of "fraud".
Empty Fruities Astern Capt'n
Back to port for unloading.
Full Sails - before we get raided ourselves.
anniemac (6th July 2009), gambblex (5th July 2009), puppydog07 (8th July 2009)
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Thanks for the reply John, just for the record after I provided a photo of myself holding my ID I was paid out. Your probably going to get even more annoyed than in your previous post, but all things considered you have no doubt dealt with bigger dickhead's than me in the past. Things to consider -
1. I've never made a complaint here and despite my low post count I've been signed up for a few years at least. Doesn't make me a fraud, a Johnny Come Lately or a liar. I added my thoughts to this particular thread because you were bullshitting.
1. Jumping through hoops just to get a payout is tiresome, after the 'holding the ID' request I was expecting something even more outlandish. Perhaps a DNA sample on a swab? The whole process lasted ages, and coupled with the endless payout times for most rivals I felt I was just being dicked around.
2. Why exactly was I considered a security risk? I long since completed all of the verification at moneybookers (also tiresome), and I've only ever paid through 1 moneybookers account at all of the rivals I've played at. No multiple accounts, no multiple moneybooker accounts and the same CC used to fund the moneybooker account. The CC is the same card from which I sent a statement included in the first ID request. I'm no security expert, but that doesn't look at all suspect.
3. I was bonus banned at rivals, no doubt through your most excellent database records. Why is it no Rival rep ever can explain this system. Jesus, just admit you don't know. This system can obviously track IP addresses and maybe link that to not just countries but specific areas. Of course it can compare sign up records and accounts. Why can it not check verification information? Unless it easily can.
Net result-
I only play at Rival casino Slotto. I've never been messed around and they pay out in 4 hours, makes 5 days look a little crap eh?
The other Rivals will not see another penny, The ID madness (I love feeling like your doing me a favour, paying me my fucking money) and the bonus ban which was never explained, i was just fobbed off (Irish Luck FYI). This has cost all the other Rivals. And trust me they would of made money, because eventually I always lose in the long run.
anniemac (6th July 2009), bb28 (5th July 2009), dcpam39 (5th July 2009), De Beuker (8th July 2009), gambblex (5th July 2009), Jasminebed (5th July 2009), KasinoKing (5th July 2009), Pinababy69 (5th July 2009), puppydog07 (8th July 2009), RobWin (5th July 2009)
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Well said!
I love Rival casinos as a player, and obviously I promote them too, so it just frustrates the hell out of me that they can't see that this ID crap and bonus banning BS just drives players away.
The number of active players I have now at Rival casinos, who signed up through my site, has dropped to about 40% of what it was 9-months ago.
I've said it before, and I will keep on saying it; Rival Gaming Casinos WOULD be the number one place to play on the net if only they would make a few MINOR changes.
KK
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Well John, I am one of the folks who was asked for a photo of me holding my ID by Vegassky when I won from the signup ND chip. I certainly wasn't the first or even second, because I had read of such being requested by other players.
I find it a little insulting it was because they "when they do it's a case of suspected fraud" and not that casinos were starting to use this more regularly, for whatever reasons.
Not all players have a passport or driver's licence. I have an Ontario Health Card, government issued photo ID, which does not contain my address. Neither does any other Ontarians'. Most casino terms and conditions simply refer to "goverment issued photo identification", not that they consider a passport or driver's license the only acceptable ID.
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You have to wonder how up-to-speed with the latest fraud detection software technology many of these operators are - it certainly does not appear that they are using the latest developments to best advantage - for them and their players.
jetset
gambblex (6th July 2009)
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I never said Rockbet had a million players but I'm not going to disclose how many there are. I have also managed This is Vegas.
If anybody wants any personal questions answered just ask me but I don't have much time to read everyone complain at once on a forum. I never accused anyone of being fraudulent but I did state that on average most of the players that are requested to verify more than the photo ID end up being fraudulent and that usually coincides with player complaints on a forum with a low post count. Just because the account has some age doesn't mean much either but I never said that all players and posters are fraudulent.
If anybody wants to believe this is a common occurance at Rival you can believe whatever you want. I know the accounting department very well and these are very rare cases and most of them end up being fraud cases. If everyone had to go through this Rivals wouldn't have survived while others have failed.
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With that said John, I realize that you and others in such a position such as a casino rep or affiliate manager and that when you post on CM in essence you are putting yourself on the chopping block so to speak but it's important to note the majority of seasoned posters at CM aren't out for blood, they would just like their questions answered honestly and completely and not have the questions or inquiries deflected by innuendos that the poster was doing something fraudulent. If the poster is proven to be a fraud, then yes, just say so and that should be the end of the story.
It seems to be quite a common theme especially at other forums that cater to affiliate reps/managers for the regular posters here at CM to be viewed as pissers and moaners with nothing better to do than moan and groan about every issue no matter how slight and just generally be viewed as troublemakers. It isn't true.......there are many valuable, intelligent contributers here that genuinely care about other players and fairness in the online gaming world.
anniemac (6th July 2009), BingoT (8th July 2009), Casinomeister (6th July 2009), dcpam39 (8th July 2009), De Beuker (8th July 2009), gambblex (6th July 2009), jas2587 (5th July 2009), KasinoKing (8th July 2009), mclee321 (7th July 2009), mistye81 (8th July 2009), Nifty29 (8th July 2009), puppydog07 (8th July 2009), RobWin (5th July 2009)
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This seems not to be the case here at Casinomeister. The half dozen or so players asked for this (photo of them holding ID) mostly turned out NOT to be fraudsters. It seems this request, although still rare, is being badly targeted.
Jetset said this:-
Well, it does seem that casinos persist in using systems which involve the player "self verifying" by THEM being responsible for preparing and sending in their documents. Whilst this is good enough for catching the "amateur" fraudster, the professional will benefit by being in control of preparing and sending plausible ID documentation to the casino. The shortcomings of this system may be why so many legitimate players end up in the "suspected of fraud" category, which to the innocent player just looks like they are "getting screwed over".You have to wonder how up-to-speed with the latest fraud detection software technology many of these operators are - it certainly does not appear that they are using the latest developments to best advantage - for them and their players.
Empty Fruities Astern Capt'n
Back to port for unloading.
Full Sails - before we get raided ourselves.
Jasminebed (16th July 2009)
Senior Member
Recently a friend of mine had her photo hijacked from the largest "social network" site online. The hijacker used her pic to open a fake account and began leaving nasty comments on other people's pages.
This is what she had to do just to get the webmasters to close the bogus account:
She had to take a photo of herself holding a piece of paper with her account number and correct e-mail address. This is called a "salute". If your face doesn't match the face on the fake site, it stays up forever.
Then she had to scan it, upload it to her page, and e-mail it from her account internally.
Pretty strict huh? You can probably guess the name of the site, it does have millions and millions of members.
This sort of requirement is not unheard of, but it is pretty fool proof.
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