Bloody ID Checks

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

What astounds me is that MGS and the other software providers have not established a verification system.

EG - If you want to play at any MGS casino you would submit your ID docs once, get verified and that's it.

eCOGRA could perform that duty, for MGS or the casinos they support.

This process of sending personal ID docs to every casino is stupid. The more copies sent out the larger the risk of identity theft.

I'd also like to add that web wallets such as Neteller, Click2pay, MoneyBookers and other have stringent ID checks & make sure the accounts your depositing with are yours & yours only.

Granted if I don't have funds in Neteller then I use a Visa debit card specifically open for online use. But even then I have to verify each transaction with the Visa Verification process. (Entering my password) every time.

Of course the TOP places like 32Red - on ya Pat and other such casinos use common sense. But the rest need a reality check and IMHO need to get their collective sh#t together.

If it keeps going like this pretty soon they'll expect us to submit DNA


Cheers
T

[vinylweatherman]

Hi all,

What astounds me is that MGS and the other software providers have not established a verification system.

EG - If you want to play at any MGS casino you would submit your ID docs once, get verified and that's it.

eCOGRA could perform that duty, for MGS or the casinos they support.

This process of sending personal ID docs to every casino is stupid. The more copies sent out the larger the risk of identity theft.

I'd also like to add that web wallets such as Neteller, Click2pay, MoneyBookers and other have stringent ID checks & make sure the accounts your depositing with are yours & yours only.

Granted if I don't have funds in Neteller then I use a Visa debit card specifically open for online use. But even then I have to verify each transaction with the Visa Verification process. (Entering my password) every time.

Of course the TOP places like 32Red - on ya Pat and other such casinos use common sense. But the rest need a reality check and IMHO need to get their collective sh#t together.

If it keeps going like this pretty soon they'll expect us to submit DNA


Cheers
T

The big problem is the complete lack of standards, and the occasions where some casinos expose their ignorance to the community, such as that infamous (and ignorant) assertion by BelleRock,

"Bellerock entertainment told me they had never heard of someone who has no photo i.d whatsoever".

Confiscating winnings on this basis alone is theft, and would NOT be allowed under normal laws, but seems perfectly OK on the internet.
Here in the UK, BECAUSE of this situation, the government have laid out procedures to be followed for verifying someone's ID in terms of compliance with money laundering regulations and ID fraud. Belle Rock, however, are refusing to follow this guidance, and are putting pressure on players whose money is held to ransom to BREAK THE LAW by obtaining a driver's licence whilst medically unfit. Even though the intent is to use the drivers license to prove ID, this is illegal since this is NOT the purpose for which it is issued, and these is no provision here that allows an unfit driver to obtain a license for use as an ID card.
A player can be wrongly denied their money simply because of the policy of the govermnent of their country, and this is WRONG, only when PLAYERS have done wrong should they risk losing their winnings.

Often, it seems players have gone to every effort possible to prove their ID, yet casinos are STILL not satisfied, and such complaints are growing ever more frequent.
My concern is that there are many legitimate players being wrongly deprived of winnings through issues such as this, and casinos are REFUSING to introduce procedures to protect the "dolphins" from being netted along with the fraudsters.
It is likely that HALF of the eligible adults in the UK will have a photo ID, since there are 33 Million cars on the road, and given that many drivers own more than one, there could be many millions of non-drivers. Further, even among those drivers there are many that will STILL have the old paper license, since once issued, they only expire at age 70.

Requiring EVERY player to get a passport just so they can play online is beyond a joke, and is certainly an unfair consumer contract term.

I think a few UK players who have themselves had money wrongly confiscated simply because, say, they are medically unfit to hold an ID, sorry, license to drive, should complain to the Office of Fair Trading. I believe this would be better than the Gambling Commission, because the Office of fair Trading has a far wider remit, and could launch a "public interest" investigation into the issue, and would have EU licensed casinos within reach of their rulings (via EU wide agreements and regulations).
This would at the very least bring to the attention of "government" that this issue DOES exist, and is creating WRONG in a number of cases.

I currently believe that whilst the UK government has created the legalised category of "remote gaming" to cover this industry, it has little clue of what is happening from the perspective of the players.

If I were in such a situation, and the amount large enough, I would make a false medical declaration (or economical one) in order to get a photo license. I would NOT use it for it's intended purpose, but to prove ID & get my money.

Next, I would approach the authorities, and make a complaint that I was blackmailed into making a false declaration to get a drivers license because a party required it to release MY money, and would NOT accept the government guidance for dealing with this kind of issue, nor would believe that I couldn't just get a "non-driving" version just for ID purposes. I might do this via my MP, rather than directly, as this would be sure to get it brought up in parliament, since there would be the wider issue of HOW MANY are getting beaten by casinos into getting hold of drivers licenses for ID purposes, rather than to drive, including having to pretend to be medically fit.
The government would worry, since this is a known loophole (there is talk of closing it), currently, if you declare you are medically fit, DVLA will take this at face value UNTIL they receive information to the contrary, and this is only likely to happen if you actually drive.

Hopefully, this would all get pressure from above on the industry to put together an ID verification process that is both realistic and FAIR to ALL adults over the age of 18 (at which they can legally gamble online).
It can ALREADY be done, and IS in place here in the UK, so there is little excuse for the lack of progress on this by the industry.

Before this, casinos should make it CRYSTAL CLEAR what is required in terms of documentation, and must then STICK to it, not jerk players around.
If they want a photo ID, it should be in BIG LETTERS, and PLAIN ENGLISH. Maybe on the deposit screen, where players simply could NOT fail to see it, a statement of the form:-

"PLAYERS WILL BE REQUIRED TO SEND IN A FORM OF PHOTO ID IN ORDER TO WITHDRAW ANY FUNDS - IF YOU DO NOT CURRENTLY HAVE A FORM OF PHOTO ID, YOU ARE ADVISED NOT TO PLAY FOR REAL MONEY AT THIS CASINO"

[BrianBuzz]

I was just wondering if anyone can explain to me why an expired passport is not an acceptable form of photo ID.

I mean I would have to be me to have got it in the first place. All the expired part does is invalidate it for travel, but it still is a legal form of photo ID isn't it?

I am so fed up of casinos telling me it isn't an acceptable form of photo ID when I try to withdraw. I refuse to pay £76 to renew the passport, when it isn't necessary and I have no intention of going abroad.

I am really sick of it, it really is the cause of much stress and angst for me. As a result, I won't be joining any more new casinos, I will just stick with the few reasonable casinos that have accepted it without any bother, sod the rest man ...

Any casino reps that believe an expired passport isn't a legit form of photo ID, can you please explain why?


.

Great point funky_seagull. The problem with an expiration date is simply that a recent one is better, not really a problem, just a preference of the casino really. When your ID expires, there is the possibility that it's thrown away. Once it's thrown away, anyone can grab it, grab your info, therefore Identity theft occurs. There is also a possibility (depending what country you are from) that if we go back to the issuer to verify your identity and the ID you gave is expired, that we won't be privy to that sort of information, as it will have been archived and no longer public record.

Really it's just a protocol to cover our behinds in a business that is purely based on trust of a company and trust of the player (there is no face to face over the internet Although (as you may already have found out) in most cases an expired ID is just fine, as long as we (the casino) are able to verify your identity with the information provided, we all move on to the fun & games. Hope this helps

[AussieDave]

Really it's just a protocol to cover our behinds in a business that is purely based on trust of a company and trust of the player (there is no face to face over the internet

From a players perspective what assurances do people have that their ID is safe? I mean it's one thing saying you have to cover your ass but what's to protect the players ass in connection with identity theft?

Whilst on that topic. Faxes are IMO a thing of the late 80's/90's.
Although casinos have come around to accepted scanned ID docs via email, that posses a security risk.

Click2Pay offers an on site direct SSL uplink to send ID docs.

However I don't know of any casino/gambling venue that offers this service.

So reiterating my last comment...It's about time there was a service that allowed players to prove their identity ONCE. Instead of this perpetual nonsense that takes place now.

Cheers
T

[BrianBuzz]

From a players perspective what assurances do people have that their ID is safe? I mean it's one thing saying you have to cover your ass but what's to protect the players ass in connection with identity theft?

Whilst on that topic. Faxes are IMO a thing of the late 80's/90's.
Although casinos have come around to accepted scanned ID docs via email, that posses a security risk.

Click2Pay offers an on site direct SSL uplink to send ID docs.

However I don't know of any casino/gambling venue that offers this service.

Cheers
T

That SSL link is an interesting service, we'll have to look into that definitely thanks for that

[KasinoKing]

By the way can someone tell me how to start a post in here .....

Do you mean start a new thread?
If so, look right at the top of the section (e.g. http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casinos/) and above all the announcements, on the left-hand side is a "New Thread" button.

[vinylweatherman]

Great point funky_seagull. The problem with an expiration date is simply that a recent one is better, not really a problem, just a preference of the casino really. When your ID expires, there is the possibility that it's thrown away. Once it's thrown away, anyone can grab it, grab your info, therefore Identity theft occurs. There is also a possibility (depending what country you are from) that if we go back to the issuer to verify your identity and the ID you gave is expired, that we won't be privy to that sort of information, as it will have been archived and no longer public record.

Really it's just a protocol to cover our behinds in a business that is purely based on trust of a company and trust of the player (there is no face to face over the internet Although (as you may already have found out) in most cases an expired ID is just fine, as long as we (the casino) are able to verify your identity with the information provided, we all move on to the fun & games. Hope this helps

A recent one may be better, but a passport is issued for the purpose of foreign travel, NOT as a means to prove ID.
WHY is it so unreasonable for someone to decide they do not want to renew their passport once they have decided to no longer travel abroad?

WHY can't casinos accept the documents that actually exist, rather than punish players because their governments have a different view as to what is enough to prove ID to a BUSINESS organisation.

There are MANY ways players can prove ID, and MANY alternative ways casinos can check up. Casinos just seem to prefer not paying until players jump through all the hoops, which in some cases even cause the player to break the law of their country.

For example, when a player sends in a passport, would you accept a black & white copy with "void" written over it AS IN ACCORDANCE WITH HOME OFFICE ADVICE.

IF we can't trust BIG PACKAGE HOLIDAY COMPANIES with our documents (Mediterranean hotels, copies of passports, Rushmore fraud) why do casinos think players trust them?

Surely the industry as a whole can see this ID issue could bring them down, perhaps through an irretrievable breakdown of trust, yet they have done NOTHING but make things ever HARDER for players.

When it comes to standards of ID, we are being entertained, a bit like going to the cinema, or buying a new telly, NOT trying to enter the country.

If the industry started to cooperate, we could have a way for players to get a "cyber passport" that all casinos signed up to the service MUST accept. Players who go to the trouble of getting one can then be CERTAIN they will get paid from member casinos. There will also be a serious advantage for casinos in the scheme, since they will be the preferred choices for players with their "cyber passports".

What about CASINOS, why are WE not allowed to verify THEIR ID before we deposit? How about if I registered as "a UK player fully identified to the UK government, and domiciled at a UK address"

This is not new, MANY businesses have decided to issue their OWN customer ID cards, for example, bus and rail passes, which allows them to verify that customers are who they claim to be, and have paid for the service.

It is an injustice that many people are "non persons" through not being able to show who they are, but if any business starts to make it's procedures so hard that many MORE become "non persons", they risk that trust will be lost.

[Thrap]

I know I'm new here and this is not in response to the original post, but I tried to attach an avatar a few minutes ago and got a message saying animated avatars are not accepted. But I see two above this post?????

[Mousey]

Hi all,

What astounds me is that MGS and the other software providers have not established a verification system.

EG - If you want to play at any MGS casino you would submit your ID docs once, get verified and that's it.

eCOGRA could perform that duty, for MGS or the casinos they support.

This process of sending personal ID docs to every casino is stupid. The more copies sent out the larger the risk of identity theft.

.....Cheers
T

This news bit is from last summer, but still.... I've always wondered just how much of this goes on that we never hear about...

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post241348

[CasinoMac]

If you can afford playing in online casinos then i think it will not be a huge problem to renew your passport for 75$