eCOGRA: Q & A with Andrew Beveridge

[spiderlegz]

What some of you affiliates seemed to have forgotten is that the "Safe and Fair" seal is for the consumer, in this case the player, to ensure that they (sealholders) adhere to the standards set up by the seal issuer. And there have and allways will be companies that "screw" their business partner without it affecting the consumer.

And an affiliate is not a consumer. And as far as I know there arent any rules or regulations that must be followed from a legal standpoint (in affiliate marketing).

And in business you dont accept every contract that is brought to you. You negotiate, consult lawyers etc.

Therefore I dont think the GP case is relevant in discussing eCOGRA. If the affiliate program would have been approved by eCOGRA then it would be relevant.

[lots0]

Thank you for your response.

Could we have an explaination of these facts?...

Thats the problem with this third hand question and answer (no offense meant to Pina) but in this format Mr. Beveridge does not have to answer direct questions. He makes a statement, through an intermediary and basically that is the end of it...

I think Mr. Beveridge's statement leaves more questions than it answered.

[mojo]

What some of you affiliates seemed to have forgotten is that the "Safe and Fair" seal is for the consumer, in this case the player, to ensure that they (sealholders) adhere to the standards set up by the seal issuer. And there have and allways will be companies that "screw" their business partner without it affecting the consumer.

And an affiliate is not a consumer. And as far as I know there arent any rules or regulations that must be followed from a legal standpoint (in affiliate marketing).

And in business you dont accept every contract that is brought to you. You negotiate, consult lawyers etc.

Therefore I dont think the GP case is relevant in discussing eCOGRA. If the affiliate program would have been approved by eCOGRA then it would be relevant.

I think that all aspects should be considered together. Software, players affiliates. If one is being treated poorly then there is a good chance others will be too. CM explains it better here:

http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/grandprive.php

Most affilates are players too.

[Nandakishore]

Although Mr. Beveridge has spent lot of time in answering Pina's excellent questions, I am now less convinced than before that eCOGRA is operating to guard the interests of players. The institution was created by some of the biggest solution providers of the industry, and since I don't believe that these giants are ideal examples in philanthrophy, I think eCOGRA serves primarily the interest of them and not us, the players and affiliates.

[AussieDave]

I was hoping that this thread would produce an open dialogue.

Unfortunately IMHO most of the responses given by Mr. Beveridge are nothing more than Spin Dr PR, driven home by semantics.

Whether eCOGRA has plans of becoming independently funded is neither here nor there. Because right now they are not!

Which is why I keep shouting that eCOGRA is embroiled with CONFLICT OF INTEREST issues.

In so far as players and their recourse of action against an eCOGRA ruling...If this was a genuine prospect then this process should be placed into the hands of an external mediation arbitrator. Anything else and it's just another CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

When does a body & or person(s) need to be versed in online gambling procedures to be able to make an educated judgement call on what is fair & just treatment of a player? In my book it's either right or it's wrong.

In so far as the GP chain of events, they've been black listed on more than a few respected portals and watchdog sites. That should represent a very clear message to the general consensus about the Grand Prive` fiasco.

Anyway they're my thoughts and opinions.


Cheers
T

PS Never underestimate your opponent.

[spiderlegz]

I think that all aspects should be considered together. Software, players affiliates. If one is being treated poorly then there is a good chance others will be too. CM explains it better here:

http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/grandprive.php

Most affilates are players too.

Its irrelevant if affiliates are players too.

An affiliate could be described as an entrepeneur. You have to have some basics in business law when you sign contracts. You are not protected the same way as consumers for obvious reasons.

Many contracts involve cancellation clauses. Here is a link that may be useful for you: http://www.nowsell.com/affiliate-mar...onditions.html

Edit: so it looks that even if you were able to take GP to court you would lose

[mojo]

Its irrelevant if affiliates are players too.

An affiliate could be described as an entrepeneur. You have to have some basics in business law when you sign contracts. You are not protected the same way as consumers for obvious reasons.

Many contracts involve cancellation clauses. Here is a link that may be useful for you: http://www.nowsell.com/affiliate-mar...onditions.html

Edit: so it looks that even if you were able to take GP to court you would lose

It is not practical to go to court. It's been looked at. That is why we rely on trust so much. In reality, all we have is each other.

I feel it is relevent. After they ripped me off as an affiliate, why would I want to see an ecogra seal on the casino, let alone play there. As a player I don't trust them. I am a player too and it is all relevent to me.

[spiderlegz]

It is not practical to go to court. It's been looked at. That is why we rely on trust so much. In reality, all we have is each other.

I feel it is relevent. After they ripped me off as an affiliate, why would I want to see an ecogra seal on the casino, let alone play there. As a player I don't trust them. I am a player too and it is all relevent to me.

Because you would lose as you dont have a case. As an entrepeneur you just cannot rely solely on trust, in this case that they wouldnt use their cancellation clause. In "real" world no business (at least any successful) would survive that way.

I found enough information in 5 minutes, yet your organisations like GPWA, CAP and APCW have failed to inform you about this valuable information. Let alone that any of you would have educated yourself what pitfalls may excist in contracts you sign and agree too.

Entrepeneuship comes with a variety of risks and is not suitable for everyone. And many has learned the hard way before you. So you are not in a unique situation.

May sound harsh but thats how it is.

Edit: I actually have one question for Mr.Beveridge but will post it later.

[mojo]

Because you would lose as you dont have a case. As an entrepeneur you just cannot rely solely on trust, in this case that they wouldnt use their cancellation clause. In "real" world no business (at least any successful) would survive that way.

I found enough information in 5 minutes, yet your organisations like GPWA, CAP and APCW have failed to inform you about this valuable information. Let alone that any of you would have educated yourself what pitfalls may excist in contracts you sign and agree too.

Entrepeneuship comes with a variety of risks and is not suitable for everyone. And many has learned the hard way before you. So you are not in a unique situation.

May sound harsh but thats how it is.

Edit: I actually have one question for Mr.Beveridge but will post it later.

This GP issue is far from over as I stated earlier. A contract is an agreement between two parties. The contract was changed and both parties did not agree. The contract is broken, but not by the affiliate.

We know this can happen. We have no legal recourse and that is why trust is such a huge factor. Especially in the us.

I did not come to argue contract law. Nor to discuss my education or anyone elses.

As a player, I will not play at GP casinos because of the reasons I stated.

[mojo]

I found enough information in 5 minutes, yet your organisations like GPWA, CAP and APCW have failed to inform you about this valuable information. Let alone that any of you would have educated yourself what pitfalls may excist in contracts you sign and agree too.

What some of you affiliates seemed to have forgotten is that the "Safe and Fair" seal is for the consumer, in this case the player, to ensure that they (sealholders) adhere to the standards set up by the seal issuer. And there have and allways will be companies that "screw" their business partner without it affecting the consumer.

Sorry it took so long to really respond to this. I am a paralegal. Which means nothing except I sat through some classes on this. Including contract law. Your post was condescending spiderlegs. I am never allowed to give legal advice as I am not a lawyer. Neither shoud you!

"Some of us affiliates" !!! Sounds like a dirty word.

Everyone who plays at a casino enters into a contract when they click the 'i agree'.. terms and conditions. At every single casino. Sorry to be so HARSH. But every time you play you are under contract. I am a player too! It is all about trust, whether an aff or a player, or both! We just hope and pray that the terms we agreed to will be honored. It is all about trust. When affiliates get screwed it effects you too. When you play at that casino and trust them, affiliates are trusting them as well.

What is the difference if it is an affiliate or a player? The only thing I can figure out is that I am in the US?

Apologies for derailing the hard work from pina. This just really was uncalled for.