One Million Reels BC $204,167.54 + was hit today

[BingoT]

Boycott Irish Luck 101% if the money is not put back where it should be.
I am with KK on this as well.
This all Sucks Irish Luck
I think they should change the name to Irish F---- or Irish Crap or even Irish Scam.
This is in poor taste Irish Luck.

[NASHVEGAS]

I would think they ran it by Rival management before running the promotion.

Would have been real hard not to. The following attached below is not hard to understand and is public record.

I did not need to omit the 4 defendant's names and RobRival's name but since I know Jet has refrained for whatever reason (I have an idea why after reading several legal articles/opinions by Canadian gaming attorney Michael Lipton) I have refrained also .

FTR, I became aware of the following in January 2009 immediately after and I suppose ironically had expressed my concern to CM on....., well I'll just post it in another post as it foreshadows exactly what has occurred.

[chuchu59]

From the looks of things, I think they are going to reinstate the JP and maybe subtract the $1,375 from the total. By not allowing the player to accumulate comp points from the $215K, they are removing any legitimacy they thought they had by forcing the player to continue wagering bet max at this slot till bust. If they had wanted to keep the dough they would have allowed the player to continue spinning.

I feel that the best way forward would be to return half of the JP winnings back to the pot and the other half to the second winner provided he didnt hit the JP thru Irish Luck's free chip.

[1819]

wow... very simply put the player does not deserve anything more than the max cashout. horrific promotion but quite clear. rival should simply not pay irish luck. the money is for jackpot payouts. there is no jackpot to pay out. put the money back in the progessive till.

[liquuid_fusion]

I feel that the best way forward would be to return half of the JP winnings back to the pot and the other half to the second winner provided he didnt hit the JP thru Irish Luck's free chip.

I think the money should go 100% back into the jackpot, apart from the $375 the player is untitled to under the rules of the promotion. I see no reason why it should go to the second winner. They placed a bet knowing the jackpot was at $6k or whatever it was and won it, they are not relevant to this issue. In any case, why give them half? Who decides what is fair? Why not 30/70 or 60/40? The only fair thing to do would be to put it all back into the pot.

By the sounds of things they are trying to fob off the winner with a couple of comparatively very low value gifts while the casino keeps all the jackpot money, which is some of the worst casino behaviour i've ever seen!

They should put it all back in the pot before they do anything, after which they might choose to throw some extra promotions/free money to both the first and second winner to keep their custom.

[BingoT]

It would be great for anyone from Rival to come in here and tell us all on what is going on with this.
This is nothing to over look.
It's the Players money we are talking about not Irish Luck's
Tell us where the money is going so we all can decide what the next step is................
All I can say is that it sucks that Irish Luck is giving the other good Rival Casino's a bad name.
It's just dirty & it sucks.

[slotheadlizard]

Thanks for all this info. Your research and insight into this matter is appreciated!

[Pinababy69]

So 27,000 people took part in the bonus offer, which is equivalent to 270,000 spins on the slot. I don't know how frequently this jackpot hits but 270k spins would probably give a fair chance of it being won by someone on the $375 max cashout bonus. They knew exactly what they were doing

Obviously they knew exactly what they were doing and have been caught Red handed.

Apparently the Jackpot was running for 4 Months before it was hit. I dare say there were over a Billion spins in this time.

Without knowing the true odds of triggering the Jackpot though we can not really know how likely or unlikely it was that the Jackpot was won on the promotion.

I would bet a pound to a pinch of pig shit though that the weighting for the Jackpot symbol was not the same as it was at launch.

It is actually far more likely that the Jackpot was hit twice because the weighting was changed than because of 270,000 spins being played, still it can't be proved.

On the other hand, this casino took a huge risk - they would have had to pay into the jackpot for every dollar wagered with their bonus

No risk to the casino at all if they were confident that the jackpot would be hit.

Rusty, I want you to get out your datebook and a pen, and take a notation. Oh, and sit down.

After thinking about this since yesterday, I'm left with no alternative but to agree with your opinion re: weighting and fidgeting with the software...at least as far as Rival goes. Something I had overlooked yesterday was that this slot is a 3 reeler, and has it not already been proven/admitted that weighting does exist in 3 reel slot machines? I think even Spear admitted to that in the other thread that we were discussing it in (and posted a link to an article). The debate now is moreso as to whether it happens with the video slots as well right?

I do believe in coincidence, but what I don't believe in....is the exact SAME occurrence taking place TWICE within a few hours of each other, when it hadn't happened in four months previous. Somewhere in the neighbourhood of 300,000 spins triggering a jackpot twice in the same day, that hadn't previously been triggered once over a four month period, with perhaps millions (or more) of spins spread out over how many casinos? Then on the one day that the casino just "happens" to run a promo that caps the payout, BOOM....two hits back to back, at least one of them at that very casino. I'm not buying it, I can't. I'm no math head, but I do have common sense and some logical sense, and it's beyond the realm of comprehension to me. As Rusty said, we have no "definitive" proof, so we can't dwell on that aspect of it. But I have more than enough proof/facts for my own mind, and I wouldn't go near a Rival casino/software, if they were the last provider on Earth. End of story.

This is not the case of a player playing on a progressive with an ordinary promotion, but one specifically designated for a game with a huge jackpot. Irish Luck knew that they would not have to pay the jackpot winner, but would receive the funds from Rival anyway.

If you don't think Rival had any knowledge of this promotion then think again, really.

If RIVAL is going along with this crap. They do need to be all rogues, either that player gets every last dime of the jackpot and they eat crow, because this was there screw up and they are being called on it, or...Every single dime of "PLAYERS" money goes back in the pot and IRISH LUCK gets fined and shut down by RIVAL for Corruption.

I would think they ran it by Rival management before running the promotion.

If this is the final settlement, and the balance of the $215,000 is not paid to the player who hit the second JP (or, if that was on a free chip too, put back in the pot) I am blacklisting Irish Luck forever, and I call upon all other affiliates to do the same.

Shame on you Irish Luck
KK

All I can say is that it sucks that Irish Luck is giving the other good Rival Casino's a bad name.

I'm not sure if everyone read the snippet of that legal document that Nashvegas posted, but IRISH LUCK IS RIVAL, AND RIVAL IS IRISH LUCK.

The four defendants named in that lawsuit (known collectively as Rival Gaming/Black Chip), own and operate Pantasia, Cocoa Casino, This is Vegas, ClubVegasUSA, Irish Luck, Lion Slots, Absolute Slots, Paradise 8and DaVinci's Gold. The four owners have full decision making authority.


And then paragraph 17:

All of the corporations are, in reality, alter egos of the Individual Defendants in order to disguise the Individual Defendants ownership of the casinos.

So, for those of you who are thinking that this was a promo devised by the owners/managers of Irish Luck....Irish Luck is Rival Gaming. Rival came up with this promo. They are all one and the same company....insofar at least as those casinos listed above. That legal document refers to a contract that was executed in April of 2006, which I suspect is why there are only nine casinos listed, as opposed to the full stable that exists now. Maybe someone who is familiar with all the Rival casinos can verify if those nine were the only ones in existence in April of 2006. That's three years ago, and many have been added since then....but I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that the ownership is the same for all of them.

To say that Irish Luck is giving the other "good" Rival casinos a bad name is not a fair statement. They are all the same monster.....sort of like an octopus with 20 arms, each arm representing a different casino. How can you say that Irish Luck is rogue, yet continue to promote the others, when it's all the same thing? Same owners, who have the final say when it comes to marketing decisions? They just happened to select the Irish Luck division to run this promo. They could just as easily have run it at any of their other dozen or more properties.

It's hard to say what will happen with the pending lawsuit against them. On the surface, it certainly doesn't appear frivolous. On the contrary, it appears quite well founded and backed up by documentation. They are being sued for $460,000 and change. IF they do not return this $215,000 to the jackpot where it belongs....gee, what a nice chunk of change that could be used towards settlement. Of course, it's all just coincidence.

I smell a roguing coming up...

If they are allowed to get away with this, it will set a precedent for other operators to do the same thing by offering free spins on progressives, hoping that some player will get lucky and win, and they'll get to keep the money minus whatever they have to pay to reseed the jackpot.

I sincerely hope you're right about that Spear. I can only echo what many have said here...in that the whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. One of the absolute worst transgressions I have seen by any software provider/casino/company. It ranks right up there with Sylvia's situation with Playtech, with the JPF mess, the English Harbour scandal. Throw em in the pit where they belong. As upset as I was over the Jackpot Factory thing, once all was said and done...I was left with the feeling that they were just stupid. Yes, it was a marketing "ploy" designed to manipulate the SERP's, and it was a planned campaign.....but it was more stupidity than evil intentions. The powers that be at Rival are just pure sleaze....don't know how else to describe them. They PLANNED this, and coupled with the fact that, in my own mind, they possibly tinkered with the software to achieve their goal....I'm sick.

[spearmaster]

I sincerely hope you're right about that Spear. I can only echo what many have said here...in that the whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. One of the absolute worst transgressions I have seen by any software provider/casino/company. It ranks right up there with Sylvia's situation with Playtech, with the JPF mess, the English Harbour scandal. Throw em in the pit where they belong. As upset as I was over the Jackpot Factory thing, once all was said and done...I was left with the feeling that they were just stupid. Yes, it was a marketing "ploy" designed to manipulate the SERP's, and it was a planned campaign.....but it was more stupidity than evil intentions. The powers that be at Rival are just pure sleaze....don't know how else to describe them. They PLANNED this, and coupled with the fact that, in my own mind, they possibly tinkered with the software to achieve their goal....I'm sick.

May I remind you that the EH issue was due to a programming error, and everyone was compensated, and that I inspected the code in question and stated my opinion that it was clearly unintended? It may well be that many people still don't believe it - but that was my professional opinion as a programmer and naturally it is disappointing that people cannot take my word at face value.

I will agree with the other two examples though. I cannot comment further on Rival at the moment but this situation does need to be resolved.

[chuchu59]

Hi, here is an update from the other forum. I do hope the extra cash prize is at least around the $14k mark.

And I hate the way the casino manager says I am going to clear your balance even if you haven't cleared the bonus, when he knows Mike has cleared the bonus. Not giving mike any choice what so ever with his balance.

.................................................. ...............................................

I have and update for you guys, here is the e-mail,

Hi Mike



My name is Tristan Lange. I'm the casino manager at Irish Luck.



Congratulations on your win!



Even though you missed out on the big win, we’d still like to give you some other prizes.



We are going to issue you your win of $375 without the need for play through if it hasn’t been completed.



You can keep all current comp points.



We are going to give you $1000 into your account so that you may either play or withdraw the money.
There will be no wagering requirements and NO LIMITS to your win

I would possibly suggest you play slots as you seem to have the Midas touch



BTW – This $1000 will not have a negative effect on your affiliate as we will pay him an extra $1000 to compensate.



Please know how grateful we are to have you play with us and all the above is 100% confirmed to go
ahead as long as Rival sort out the payment.



Extra Prizes



Gary and I have been talking and we have a great idea, we would love to send you and a friend to Atlantic City or over to
The Mohegan Sun In Connecticut with a bit of spending money for a weekend away...



- How does that sound?



Also another idea we had was to enter you into a poker tournament:

I have quite a few colleagues and friends in the poker industry, so we’ll be able to find something very suitable out for you.



- When is a good time of the year for you to travel?

- Is there any particular tournament you’d like to enter?





About the win itself:

- If you can tell us your thoughts about the win, and how you felt when
you saw the jackpot come up on the screen, that would be fantastic.



Also, please send your screenshots over, it's not often we get to see the progressives hit the jackpot



Gary tells me that you’ve said you’re happy to help us with some promotional material about the win – thanks so much for that!

It’s greatly appreciated.



I'll contact you about that within a week. I'll also keep it simple, so it's not a drag for you.



Your account:

Just to confirm, I’m going to “reset” it today (manually complete the promotion) today.

If you see your balance suddenly ‘disappear’, don’t panic! We’ll get some money into your account shortly.



Again Mike, welcome to the family. We're glad to have you play with us and wish you all the luck at the casino



All the best!



Regards,

Tristan.

trying to keep ya updated as this go's.. Boris3073 when you read this e-mail you'll see i was listen to you my friend, thank you so much, will keep you guys up todate as this keeps going...

lookaway,

Is it possible to know the length of time that elapsed between the winning of the JP and the receipt of the casino's email.