Illogical ID requests

[vinylweatherman]

The reason for the utility bill is to verify address. Passports obviously don't have your address on them.

I do agree, however, that if you didn't use a CC, you should not be required to provide that documentation.

None of this addresses the problems faced by players such as funky_seagull. The industry is ignoring such players, but not telling them they will never be able to satisfy ID requirements without a great deal of expense and hassle till after they have played for a while and withdrawn.

In funky_seagull's case, the amounts are so trivial that £76 for a passport is more than the value of his withdrawals are likely to be, so the casino is really in a win-win situation with such players.

ID checks that players are simply unable to comply with are going to get this entire industry a bad name, as in some cases they are not proportionate to the risk. The result will be that some players will resort to other means for "revenge" when they are confronted with an unexpected no-win situation such as faced by funky_seagull. This could involve airing the grievance publicly, but also players who decide to give up online gambling altogether because they feel the entire industry is "rogue" will try routes such as the chargeback, and will feel no guilt about it because they will feel the same has been done to them. It is the same as buying goods remotely, only to find they are faulty, but the retailer makes the returns procedure impossible to comply with in the hope perhaps that you will not bother. Faced with this, consumers are actually advised to claim redress through their credit card or VISA debit card provider.

Another problem that will soon bedevil players is the increasing tendency for utilities to "fine" customers who insist on continuing with paper bills. This trend could result in players having all their bills and payments handled solely online, something that is being pushed heavily for "environmental reasons" (so they claim) I am already paying these "fines" because I need regular statements to scan and keep on my PC.
Whilst casinos say they do not accept copies of online bills, they cannot tell the difference in many cases, since most statements posted out are produced by computer anyway, and are identical to what we could print off from managing our bills online.

[spearmaster]

None of this addresses the problems faced by players such as funky_seagull. The industry is ignoring such players, but not telling them they will never be able to satisfy ID requirements without a great deal of expense and hassle till after they have played for a while and withdrawn.

In funky_seagull's case, the amounts are so trivial that £76 for a passport is more than the value of his withdrawals are likely to be, so the casino is really in a win-win situation with such players.

ID checks that players are simply unable to comply with are going to get this entire industry a bad name, as in some cases they are not proportionate to the risk.

funky_seagull is not simply unable to comply, as you intimate. He does not wish to comply for such a small withdrawal.

Now - let's not argue the point of the passport - some people do have them and can use them. Not everyone has passports and the casino is not saying that a passport is the only acceptable id.

Driver's license - well, needless to say not everyone has one either.

I suspect that the casino can accept some other form of photo ID, but obviously believes that most people have either passport or driver's license. Certainly in the US, people are normally required to have at least a state ID if they don't have a driver's license - once they reach a certain age, that is.

I don't know UK identification requirements - but I do find it strange that funky_seagull has no form of acceptable ID - surely, the government must require people to have SOME form of acceptable ID... and obviously if a government recognizes a particular form of ID, so should a casino.

Now, as to requiring ID before play - not all casinos do this - certainly not in the US - you are not required to show ID before play, and quite often you will never have to show ID except when challenged, or when winning over $1200 on a single spin or game (for tax purposes).

I used to believe that ID should be checked before allowing play to proceed - but I now realize how much of a problem that causes - firstly, that is likely to more than double the workload for the casino - and secondly, it is more likely to frustrate someone enough to cause them not to bother.

This might seem trivial - until you realize that the additional workload alone could slow a casino to a crawl, meaning your withdrawals are processed more slowly, support is often overloaded... because they are checking the IDs of people who may never even make a deposit or a withdrawal.

So if your withdrawal or your support request is slower, you too might get frustrated... and not come back.

It's a chicken and egg situation. Or somewhere between a rock and a hard place - but at least you can see why checking identity before play is such a difficult proposition.

[vinylweatherman]

funky_seagull is not simply unable to comply, as you intimate. He does not wish to comply for such a small withdrawal.

Now - let's not argue the point of the passport - some people do have them and can use them. Not everyone has passports and the casino is not saying that a passport is the only acceptable id.

Driver's license - well, needless to say not everyone has one either.

I suspect that the casino can accept some other form of photo ID, but obviously believes that most people have either passport or driver's license. Certainly in the US, people are normally required to have at least a state ID if they don't have a driver's license - once they reach a certain age, that is.

I don't know UK identification requirements - but I do find it strange that funky_seagull has no form of acceptable ID - surely, the government must require people to have SOME form of acceptable ID... and obviously if a government recognises a particular form of ID, so should a casino.Now, as to requiring ID before play - not all casinos do this - certainly not in the US - you are not required to show ID before play, and quite often you will never have to show ID except when challenged, or when winning over $1200 on a single spin or game (for tax purposes).

I used to believe that ID should be checked before allowing play to proceed - but I now realise how much of a problem that causes - firstly, that is likely to more than double the workload for the casino - and secondly, it is more likely to frustrate someone enough to cause them not to bother.

This might seem trivial - until you realise that the additional workload alone could slow a casino to a crawl, meaning your withdrawals are processed more slowly, support is often overloaded... because they are checking the IDs of people who may never even make a deposit or a withdrawal.

So if your withdrawal or your support request is slower, you too might get frustrated... and not come back.

It's a chicken and egg situation. Or somewhere between a rock and a hard place - but at least you can see why checking identity before play is such a difficult proposition.

NO NO NO and again NO!!!!!!

The UK government ONLY issue a PHOTO on either a PASSPORT or a DRIVERS LICENCE. Funky_seagull is not "unwilling" to obtain a driver's license, he is NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED ONE due to disability. Whilst he CAN obtain a passport, this is NOT a simple matter, he is disabled, and lives in a remote area, and you must now apply IN PERSON at one of only a few regional passport offices for the new style biometric passports being issued.

The UK government DO issue quite a few other forms of ID, but they DO NOT HAVE PHOTOS.

Other forms of PHOTO ID, such as I have suggested might be issued at a more local level, such a bus passes, railcards, etc are UNLIKELY TO BE ACCEPTED anyway.

The UK government are currently happy with this situation, even though other countries may not be, however, IF a UK citizen is in another country, they will have a passport anyway, so problem solved.

The current government are more worried about losing VOTES than they are about INTERNAL security, as those without a passport or drivers license have no other form of photo ID, and are not required to even have one.

Since this state of affairs is likely to last several years, the online casino industry MUST address this problem, rather than ignore it at their peril. Casinos licensed within the EU or UK will find themselves in trouble for making impractical ID document requests where the player can show that what they have is fine for GOVERNMENT purposes, but the casino holding their cash says it is not for theirs.

I PERSONALLY, would fork out for a passport, but this is because MY cash-ins warrant the expenditure, even if I was never intending to travel abroad again. It would only become necessary if my drivers license was taken away, something that the elderly have to face, as well as the medically unfit.

Making a false declaration of fitness to drive just to obtain an "ID document" to please casinos is a CRIMINAL OFFENCE, and carries quite a steep fine.

I am sure if funky_seagull had a big win, it would be worth his while getting a new passport for £76 + travel + 1 wasted day.

[winbig]

9 times out of 10, if you don't deposit using a CC, you need not to send in a copy of any CC to them. If they still ask for it, tell them to shove it and PAB.

[spearmaster]

NO NO NO and again NO!!!!!!

No need for the shouting, mate.

The UK government ONLY issue a PHOTO on either a PASSPORT or a DRIVERS LICENCE. Funky_seagull is not "unwilling" to obtain a driver's license, he is NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED ONE due to disability. Whilst he CAN obtain a passport, this is NOT a simple matter, he is disabled, and lives in a remote area, and you must now apply IN PERSON at one of only a few regional passport offices for the new style biometric passports being issued.

I stand by my opinion. There *must* be some ID that the government recognize. I said nothing about simple or anything of the sort - I said that he does not wish to comply, which is entirely correct. And it's his choice, and frankly if I were in his situation I'd probably do the same thing.

Your statement of being "unable to comply" is incorrect.

Other forms of PHOTO ID, such as I have suggested might be issued at a more local level, such a bus passes, railcards, etc are UNLIKELY TO BE ACCEPTED anyway.

I don't see where this has been established by either funky_seagull or the casino in his particular case - here you are again making assumptions without basis in fact.

And although I would normally assume a photo ID, again this has yet to be established and was not stated by either party.

If he has any government-issued ID which can be used for *all* general intents and purposes within the UK, that should be acceptable enough. If he wants to explain his situation to the casino, he can do so, or he can PAB if he likes.

But you cannot assume that he is unable to comply - regardless of whether the ID is required before play, or upon cashout - either way he knows he is still likely to have to produce ID - otherwise it should be incumbent on him to speak with the casino in the first place. The requirement for proof of identity is a given, it is not optional - what IS optional is when the ID is required to be produced.

Casinos licensed within the EU or UK will find themselves in trouble for making impractical ID document requests where the player can show that what they have is fine for GOVERNMENT purposes, but the casino holding their cash says it is not for theirs.

This is just repeating what I said before. If it is good enough for government purposes, it should be good enough for a casino. If the casino is not willing to recognize a legal identity document, then it belongs in the rogue list.

[KasinoKing]

I don't know about you lot but it really winds me up

I agree with you - it's just total bulls-droppings.
If a player deposits by Neteller, MoneyBookers or any other e-wallet and withdraws to the same account, what the flip does it matter???
You have to be at least 18 to open one of those accounts, so the age shouldn't be an issue.

You don't have to prove who you are in a B&M casino, so why all this horse-manure online?

KK

[spearmaster]

You don't have to prove who you are in a B&M casino, so why all this horse-manure online?

This surely is wrong - every London B&M casino I've been to requires you to be a member or else prove identity and age... and I've been to a fair few of them... this may not be the case in the US, but it sure is in most places in Europe...

[funky_seagull]

The casino I had a recent problem with I joined them about a year ago. This is the first time they have asked for ID after about 8 withdrawals. Thankfully I managed to get my money in the end. I used my birth certificate. But it took many emails and some phonecalls to sort it out. bizarrely a birth certificate is still not good enough as it doesn't have a photo on it. But they processed my withdrawal, with the message I still need to produce a valid photo ID. So i think I will just take my money and scram. The only way I can get a valid photo ID is by renewing my passport. I dont drive due to being disabled. There are no other valid forms of photo ID available to me. I know the rest of the world outside the UK seems to find it unbelievable but people in the UK do not carry national identity cards. Some casinos I have joined have done their ID checks behind the scenes without me having to send in any documentation. I think they must have checked on the electoral register or something like that. Cause when I contacted them asking if I needed to send in any documentation they said there was no need as they had already verified who I am. So it shows there must be other more player friendly ways to check. These casinos were all UK ones though licensed in Gibraltar. Other casinos I am a member of have asked for ID but were a lot more chilled out and reasonable about the whole thing and either accepted my expired passport, my birth certificate, or even my bank statement as proof of ID. Which to me shows there are some casinos going over the top about this or are just plain ignorant. I hate the way some casinos make you feel like a naughty child for not having a photo ID. It's like being at school, who the duck do some of these places think they are. I won't be joining any more casinos. This ID crap is a nightmare. As well as the photo ID problem the whole thing is a pain in the arse anyway. Trying to photograph a utility bill so everything is clear and visible is frustrating, one time trying to get this photo right took me an hour. Not everyone has a scanner. Uploading them to the computer, having to chase up support to see if they have been approved, that they were clear enough, it is really player unfriendly, annoying and tiring.

[spearmaster]

I joined the casino about a year ago. This is the first time they have asked for ID after about 8 withdrawals. I managed to get my money in the end. Using my birth certificate. But even this was still not good enough as it doesn't have a photo on it. They processed my withdrawal, but said I still need to produce a valid photo ID. The only way I can get a valid photo ID is by renewing my passport. There are no other valid forms of photo ID available. I know the rest of the world seems to find it unbelievable but people in the UK do not carry national identity cards. Anyway I got my money after many emails and phonecalls and won't be going back there. Some casinos I have joined have done their ID checks behind the scenes without me having to send in any documentation. I think they must have checked on the electoral register or something like that. Cause when I contacted them asking if I needed to send in any documentation they said there was no need as they had already verified who I am. So it shows there must be other more player friendly ways to check. These casinos were all UK ones though licensed in Gibraltar. Other casinos I am a member of have asked for ID but were a lot more chilled out and reasonable about the whole thing and either accepted my expired passport, birth certificate, or even my bank statement as proof of ID. Which shows some casinos are going over the top about this. I won't be joining any new casinos anymore to avoid this ID nightmare. As well as the passport problem the whole thing is a pain in the arse anyway. Trying to photograph a utility bill so everything is clear and visible is frustrating. Uploading them to the computer having to chase up support to see if they have been approved it is really player unfriendly and annoying. The one I had a recent problem with I have been with them over a year and they have processed about 8 withdrawals, with no problems whatsoever and never asked for ID, so perhaps I haven't heard the last of this demon. They seem to have changed their payment processor maybe that has something to do with it.

LOL... I don't think a birth certificate is an acceptable form of ID either But your expired passport really should be acceptable as it was government issued (obviously), in tandem with some of the other stuff like a utility bill.

As for national identity cards - quite frankly the US doesn't issue national identity cards either - only state ID, state driver's license, or passport.

Obviously your situation is special and falls outside the norm - if the casino is a good casino I would suggest you explain to them what the problem is - and if you've done that, then you perhaps need to get to higher management. Or send it along to one of us (Maxd is probably best) and we'll see if we can do anything about that.

Casinos must certainly strive to make the customer experience easy, friendly, and welcoming - there can be no argument there. But one also needs to understand that there are certain things that a casino has to do, particularly if they are UK-licensed or whitelisted. There will always be some cracks or uncovered issues, and unfortunately yours is one of them - so making an effort to try and help them fix these things will be appreciated by not only them, but those who fall into a similar situation.

By the way, I should also point out that an expired passport is a LEGAL and valid form of ID in the US - easily discovered by the simple fact that presentation of the expired passport, along with the required forms and fees, is all that is required to obtain a new passport. The only difference between your expired passport and your new passport is that the expiration date only invalidates the passport for travel purposes.

[Pinababy69]

I also don't have a passport, never have had one...and don't plan on getting one at $150 a pop. Why should I when I have no intention of travelling outside of my own country? I also don't drive, thus no driver's licence. So, for ID purposes, that leaves me with my birth certificate, my SIN card (similar to Social Security ID in the States), and my Ontario Health Card (non photo).

Like others in this thread, I will never try new casinos because I am not going to run the risk of being told I can't cashout after I win. But they can always take your money/deposits, be it via CC or whatever. I could be Osama Bin Laden, and they'd gladly be taking my money and taking it.....it's only when I want some back that they decide they have to verify my identity? Bullshit.

Inetbet was satisfied with my ID and a utility bill.....32Red and 3Dice, I've never had to provide a thing. Why is that? That some can manage to pay people, no questions asked? I already know the answer.

Honestly, my advice to anyone before they try a new casino is to get pre-approved for cashouts, and get it in writing, before you ever make a deposit. And if your ID isn't good enough for these guys....screw em.

BTW Spear, there is no national ID card here in Canada either. Only picture ID nationally recognized is passport or driver's licence. Maybe I should learn how to drive after 46 years....just so I can cashout from an online casino?