Criminals at Hot Pepper

[bevykay]

I am posting this message to alert the Casino Meister readers to the rouge outfit that is Hot Pepper Casino. I have waited months for a possible resolution but since I have not had a response in a while and realize that I have no chance of getting my winnings paid, I will do what I can to stop others from playing here.

Last August I deposited and received a bonus at Hot Pepper. I ended up with winnings of about $7500, wagered the requirement on slots, and made a withdrawal. Hot Pepper then canceled my wins and provided me with this explanation:

Bonus terms: Credits issued during the promotional period MUST be wagered 36 times the deposit amount up to the maximum eligible bonus plus the bonus amount deposited (maximum eligible deposit + bonus) BEFORE making any withdrawal. Customers playing from Israel must wager 60 times the deposit amount up to the maximum eligible bonus plus the bonus amount deposited (maximum eligible deposit + bonus) BEFORE making any withdrawal.

By claiming this promotion, Craps, Roulette, Baccarat, War, Blackjack, Video Poker, Let Them Ride, Progressive Blackjack, Tri-Card Poker, Island Stud Poker, Pai Gao, Hold'em Poker, Mulligan Poker and Red Dog will not count towards the minimum level of play. Failure to comply will void any bonuses and all winnings, as well as progressive and all real money credits, and may result in your account being locked at the sole discretion of the casino.
According to the Casino rules all wins on your account were canceled. Your last deposit and bonuses was charged and you may use it as you wish.

They later acknowledged that I had met the slots wagering requirement, thereby nullifying the first paragraph. The second paragraph only says that video poker does not count towards the minimum level of play – nowhere does it say that it cannot be played when a bonus has been received.

To make a long story short, I went back and forth with casino management several times over emails and they just kept pounding the same nonsensical point and eventually quit responding. Unfortunately, because of the 1 PAB rule I was unable to file a complaint against them (I had made a previous PAB with King Neptunes that got resolved quickly). Max (from CM) did what he could to help me out but they’ve ignored him as well so I’m down to my last option: warning other players…unless anyone knows of another option?

Please post any comments you may have regarding Hot Pepper or my situation, whether positive or negative.

Thanks,
Beverly

[vinylweatherman]

I am posting this message to alert the Casino Meister readers to the rouge outfit that is Hot Pepper Casino. I have waited months for a possible resolution but since I have not had a response in a while and realize that I have no chance of getting my winnings paid, I will do what I can to stop others from playing here.

Last August I deposited and received a bonus at Hot Pepper. I ended up with winnings of about $7500, wagered the requirement on slots, and made a withdrawal. Hot Pepper then canceled my wins and provided me with this explanation:

Bonus terms: Credits issued during the promotional period MUST be wagered 36 times the deposit amount up to the maximum eligible bonus plus the bonus amount deposited (maximum eligible deposit + bonus) BEFORE making any withdrawal. Customers playing from Israel must wager 60 times the deposit amount up to the maximum eligible bonus plus the bonus amount deposited (maximum eligible deposit + bonus) BEFORE making any withdrawal.

By claiming this promotion, Craps, Roulette, Baccarat, War, Blackjack, Video Poker, Let Them Ride, Progressive Blackjack, Tri-Card Poker, Island Stud Poker, Pai Gao, Hold'em Poker, Mulligan Poker and Red Dog will not count towards the minimum level of play. Failure to comply will void any bonuses and all winnings, as well as progressive and all real money credits, and may result in your account being locked at the sole discretion of the casino.
According to the Casino rules all wins on your account were canceled. Your last deposit and bonuses was charged and you may use it as you wish.

They later acknowledged that I had met the slots wagering requirement, thereby nullifying the first paragraph. The second paragraph only says that video poker does not count towards the minimum level of play – nowhere does it say that it cannot be played when a bonus has been received.

To make a long story short, I went back and forth with casino management several times over emails and they just kept pounding the same nonsensical point and eventually quit responding. Unfortunately, because of the 1 PAB rule I was unable to file a complaint against them (I had made a previous PAB with King Neptunes that got resolved quickly). Max (from CM) did what he could to help me out but they’ve ignored him as well so I’m down to my last option: warning other players…unless anyone knows of another option?

Please post any comments you may have regarding Hot Pepper or my situation, whether positive or negative.

Thanks,
Beverly

This is yet another case of badly written terms. They MEANT to say that play on the listed games was not allowed, but they DID NOT, they said that play "does not count". Since you met the WR on slots, you are in the right as far as the terms ARE WRITTEN, but are WRONG in terms of what the casino MEANT. If it went to court, you would win, as it would be decided on what is WRITTEN, but casinos are pretty hard to get into court.

It seems this mistake is made over and over again, with casinos unable to make it clear whether games are FORBIDDEN during a promotion, or simply DO NOT COUNT. For a native English speaker, the difference in meaning is obvious, but it seems many casino operators take the phrase "does not count" as meaning the same as "play is forbidden". The sentence that follows also makes it pretty clear that the casino are confused, as it does not naturally follow what they WROTE, but does match what they MEANT.

Casinos are seeming to get worse over this issue, they need to offer juicy bonuses to entice new players, but also need to make them hard to meet WR and withdraw that experienced players wont simply take all their money. 36x on slots only SEEMS an impossible task for many new players, and they can't understand how on earth this can be achieved.

I believe a few casinos use this "does not count" nonsense as a baited trap for the "bonus abusers", who would see "does not count" and immediately assume they are free to make the big bet to start off before playing the 36x on slots. If they see this, they use this rule to void winnings, but if they only see a few inexpert plays on the other games, they might stick to "does not count" and pay.

ALL players should assume that "does not count" against a game means the same as "cannot be played", and should further assume that playing an excluded game will USUALLY result in some kind of removal of winnings, as this certainly seems to be the case. In the past, casinos really DID use their discresion, and few cases of confiscated winnings were heard of.

I am sure that the number of frauds and "abusers of generosity" as a proportion of the total player base has not changed much, it is just that most casinos have tightened up considerably on what they will allow. This has lead to the "abusers of generosity" to get cleverer, and think up new ways to win. This results in an "arms race", which now seems out of control given some of the games in that list where there is no possible "abuse play" such as a big 50/50 bet. The advantage for some of these games only comes when big bonuses can be taken a number of times, such as with a group of players acting as one, and it seems that EVERYONE has to suffer because casinos are concerned about large numbers of players all using a single tactic that is nowhere near the 50/50 risk to the player of the big bet, but that nevertheless offers an edge should, say, 100 players play in the same way.

It would be far more honest if such restrictive bonuses were given their correct title, which is "slots only", rather than pretending it is a bonus for "all games except...........", where the list of exceptions can be buried in the T & C, so that the headline advert simply offers a bonus, with no need to make it obvious it includes only slot games at the point where the player is attracted to take the offer.

There MAY be a rep here for Hot Pepper, if so, they can at least be brought to task about their misleading use of "does not count" when they really mean to say "not allowed to be played".

The thread title may be ruled as far too strong (criminals), as this is really a contractural issue. If the amount is enough, take them to court, the industry does certainly have a problem with being clear with their T & C, and there is nothing like losing a case in court to make all but the disreputable order an overhaul of what got them into the mess to start with. Their terms should include where they can be taken to court, although this is often an obscure location, usually where they are licenced.

[Slotster!]

Third line down on this page, just under the title and directly under "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rouge

[Eliot Jacobson]

Hot Pepper Casino bears the "Certified Fair Gambling" seal. I have audited them for several years, providing monthly RTP reports and verifying that the software is fair.

In the middle of 2008 they stopped paying for the audits. I gave them a quit notice on November 1, 2008 to remove the seal immediately. I informed them that I would consider them rogue if they continued to post the CFG seal beyond January 1, 2009. At the time they were four months behind in their payment to me.

I consider Hot Pepper Casino to be a rogue casino because of non-payment. As far as I know the people who run Hot Pepper Casino own and run ONLY that casino and no other.

Their software is fair, and the seal appropriately certifies the software. At this time, every other casino that bears the CFG seal is operating fairly, is using fair software, and is using the CFG seal with permission of Certified Fair Gambling.

Only Hot Pepper Casino is using the CFG seal without approval at this time; the reason is non-payment.

[nerv]

Hot Pepper closing it bussiness as I am aware of.

My friend had simmilar situation where he been able to win some money (some $50) on free tournaments. After many tries to withraw this winnings he gave up.

At one point he was offered to have his balance transfered to Superslots, btw.

[vinylweatherman]

There is clearly a wider issue here. Not only are they not paying players, but they STILL have not paid Eliot, NOR have they removed the seal, which is misleading players into believing they are still being independently audited when they are not. The software itself is just as fair whether or not they have their own audit, but it seems their business practices are anything but fair.

I now suspect they know that their terms are confusing, but rather like them this way as they can, on occasion, void large cashouts from players they do not expect to profit from in the longer term.

One could speculate that their inability to pay Eliot what is due has something to do with them being strapped for cash, as the alternatives imply an intent to not pay, rather than a temporary technical inability to pay, despite good intent.

Perhaps they should be rogued for unethical business practice, irrespective of the merits of this players grievance. This is no different really from a casino displaying "accredited by Casinomeister" when they are not, as they are displaying a seal indicating that they are still being audited for fairness by an independent consultant, when this is no longer the case. They have had more than ample time now to either pay for the audits, or remove the seal from the website.

[dominique]

Lots of affiliate complaints about Hot Pepper, and Affiliate Guard Dog rogued them for non payment.

Watch out guys!

PS. Oddly they carry google type ads on the bottom of their casino site, and a request for downloading the casino produces this:

Regrettably effective December 5, 2008 Hot Pepper Casino management has decided to discontinue offering its product in the marketplace. If you wish to continue playing at an online casino we have arranged for you to do so at SunPalace Casino or Cherry Red Casino. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and we hope you enjoyed your stay at the Hot Pepper.

[vinylweatherman]

Lots of affiliate complaints about Hot Pepper, and Affiliate Guard Dog rogued them for non payment.

Watch out guys!

Perhaps there IS an issue with cashflow, this non-payment by them seems to be quite an issue. Only time will tell, and if they are pissing off affiliates, they are likely to suffer swift retribution, as if they lose the confidence of affiliates in general, they will find it very hard to recruit new players.

[Eliot Jacobson]

It suddenly all makes sense and shows why communities such as this are good for all sides.

I was unaware of the information quoted below but just verified that this message appears when trying to download the software for Hot Pepper Casino -- indeed one can no longer download the software and Hot Pepper Casino seems to no longer exist as an entity. I have an account on Hot Pepper. I just tried to log on and was not able to do so.

Regrettably effective December 5, 2008 Hot Pepper Casino management has decided to discontinue offering its product in the marketplace. If you wish to continue playing at an online casino we have arranged for you to do so at SunPalace Casino or Cherry Red Casino. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and we hope you enjoyed your stay at the Hot Pepper.

It is unfortunate to get caught in the crosshairs of a business that went bust, but I no longer consider them a rogue if this is the case. A failed business always hurts the clients and vendors who are invested in it at the time of its failure. In particular, this completely clarifies their status with Certified Fair Gambling. I have four unpaid invoices that I now know what to do with (circular file).

The original poster at the start of this thread wrote:

I am posting this message to alert the Casino Meister readers to the rouge outfit that is Hot Pepper Casino. I have waited months for a possible resolution.

Based on my business experience with them (they were always very professional), I never considered them rogue until the very end when they continued to post the CFG seal without payment. It is now clear that there was no roguish activity at Hot Pepper. They just went bust.

[winbig]

So it's not roguish to go bust, but yet to redirect players to other casinos? ...and get paid for it, but yet not pay players what's rightfully due? It looks to me as if they've set up an affiliate account with both of these casinos...cause I seriously doubt they'd be redirecting potential/existing players to other casinos out of the kindness of their heart.


Here's what their Cherry Red php link spits out: (http://www.hotpeppercasino.com/cherry.php)

C:\temp>type cherry.php
<html>

<head>
<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW">
<meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="0; URL=http://www.cherryredcasino.com/a/b414
4-cn-a16390">
<title>Cherry</title>
</head>

<body>

</body>

</html>

....and Sun Palace: (http://www.hotpeppercasino.com/sunpalace.php)

<html>

<head>
<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW">
<meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="0; URL=http://www.sunpalacecasino.com/Remote
/AidDownload.php?casinoID=236&gAid=19159&subGid=0&bannerID=0">
<title>sunpalace</title>
</head>

<body>

</body>

</html>