deposit by Neteller withdraw no?

[Setsuna]

Update : the MiniVegas rep responded to my PM very quickly , telling me he would be working on that with the accounts department, heads-up for him

On the other hand , received another mail from cashier yesterday ...

Dear Joachim, Thank you for your recent communication.

We would like to once again inform you that the Vegas Poker Casino terms and conditions, which you agreed to upon opening your casino account, state the following:

"Players may need to comply with certain security requirements and send verification documents; winnings will be sent out immediately after verification of the identification information. Please note failure to provide the requested information will result in a delay in the pay-out process."

Please kindly choose amount be below options:
- Direct bank transfer ($30/EUR25/£15 fee applies, please provide bank details by email, allow from 3-10 days)
- Click2Pay (free of charge,allow 2-4 days for receipt)
- Payspark (free of charge,allow 2-4 days for receipt)

..nothing has changed - they're even quoting section of their T&C not related to the issue ! . Hopefully this will be solved soon.

[kavaman]

Minivegas group pulled the same BS on me about a year ago. Gladly i had click2pay where they paid me. Not returning there quickly.

kava

[vinylweatherman]

This has happened before, and it is most odd indeed, as although they reserve the right to pay by alternative methods, they are also obliged to return initial deposits at least, wherever possible, to the original funding method. This is not "their" rules, but international agreements designed to prevent money laundering. To say that Neteller is "unavailable" is complete BS, Neteller is ALWAYS available as a two way funding option, this is how it was designed. Indeed, this position from the MiniVegas group makes some forms of "money laundering" very easy. For example, Neteller occasionally offers promotions where it is FREE to fund the account with a credit card, and MiniVegas are enabling this to be used as a way to take substantial cash advances from a credit card WITHOUT Neteller being able to monitor it, since the money flows through the casino, and out via bank wire or cheque, and the processing fee charged by MiniVegas is far less that what would be charged were you to get a cash advance by normal means with both the 3% fee and cash rate interest. This is one example of WHY casinos and processors tend to INSIST that deposits are always returned to the method of funding.

The only credible theory is that MiniVegas do not have enough funds in their Merchant Neteller account, and are preserving what they have by directing players to alternative withdrawal methods where they do have funds. Further evidence for this was revealed last time, where -players who INSISTED were eventually paid through Neteller, despite it being "unavailable".

A complaint to Neteller might help, even if just to get the message across to MiniVegas that this is not acceptable. A complaint against Neteller can also be escalated to the FSA or IOM regulators if they do not give a proper explanation as to this odd state of affairs. Neteller are not all that good at resolving complaints, but I have never called their bluff by taking it to the next level, as after a few weeks of persistence, problems do seem to resolve themselves.

[deucebag]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

This has happened before, and it is most odd indeed, as although they reserve the right to pay by alternative methods, they are also obliged to return initial deposits at least, wherever possible, to the original funding method. This is not "their" rules, but international agreements designed to prevent money laundering.

This is not true. There are no international "agreements", laws or regulations that state that deposits have to be returned to the method of deposit. It is entirely up to the sites. They have to have systems in place to prevent money laundering, and there are a number of ways to go about this. I have played on as many sites that don't have that rule (Intercasino to name one), as I have sites that do.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by deucebag

This is not true. There are no international "agreements", laws or regulations that state that deposits have to be returned to the method of deposit. It is entirely up to the sites. They have to have systems in place to prevent money laundering, and there are a number of ways to go about this. I have played on as many sites that don't have that rule (Intercasino to name one), as I have sites that do.

Well, in that case, casinos that explain that they are bound by said agreements when they insist on refunding to the deposit method are LYING.
They are using a bogus "international agreement" or even "international law" to excuse what might be an otherwise unacceptable internal policy that THEY have dreamed up themselves for whatever reason.

The issue of refunds only being allowed to be made to the deposit method have come up often, and the casinos will usually quote variants of this "international law" argument to defend the decision, as well as make it non-negotiable.

There are many complaints about this rule, and it does seem that some casinos go out of their way to make withdrawing as inconvenient as possible, insisting on paying back to initial deposit method when the player asks for something different, yet at the same time REFUSING to pay back to the initial deposit method, as in this case.

If there was really no "hidden agenda" behind these decisions, then there would be consistent application of the policy across the board for all players.

There should be no reason whatsoever (legitimate, that is) for refusing to pay back a player by Neteller if that is the ONLY way they have ever deposited, as no deposit hierarchy is involved, such as refunding old deposits in prefferential order as can be the case where Neteller deposits have been preceeded by card based deposits. Cheque or bank wire withdrawals are meant as a last resort, often used in markets such as the US, or where the player has used cash based or card only deposit methods where refund is impossible.

It seems that MiniVegas are hiding something, either about the particular player, or in general, and are not being truthful in their generalisation that "Neteler is unavailable". It may be more accurate to say "Neteller is not an option we CHOOSE to pay you, even though it is available for other players".

I can say this from experience, as my recent withdrawals from Colosseum and Vegas Poker were paid back through Neteller, my only method of deposit, with no delays. If their excuses were above board, I too should have had a few hitches with Neteller withdrawals with this group, but I have so far had none.

The ONLY way to get any further with this would be to PAB, and lodge a complaint with Neteller about the problems you are having with this merchant, pointing out that the merchant has offloaded the blame to Neteller for the inability to pay by the broad statement that "Neteller is currently unavailable".

The most likely explanation is indeed a shortage of funds in their merchant account, as I have encountered this problem numerous times with other casinos, and when they don't spot this, and attempt the payment, you will see the withdrawal in your Neteller statement, but marked as "Declined" by Neteller, because there is not enough in the merchant account, OR the merchant has exceeded their limits for an individual transaction.
They seem to have plenty in Moneybookers and Click2Pay, however these two eWallets have a worse reputation even than Neteller, and Click2Pay seem unaccountable for their actions, whereas at least Moneybookers has light touch "regulation" from the FSA as does Neteller. Moneybookers, however, ignore emails, and only have very expensive "customer service" at 25p per minute, although a change in the rules by OFCOM have opened a back door for UK players, their 0870 "international" number is now FREE with BT evenings and weekends - on a par with Neteller where it is FREE all the time, thus far easier to persist with a complaint.

[Setsuna]

Well , thanks for the advice - i'm waiting Monday to see if the situation evolves (the rep told me that the issue went into further management , and it couldn't resolve it before Monday ) ; then if it's not improving , i'll try to complain to Neteller.

[vinylweatherman]

It may resolve, but I think an explanation is necessary, as this is HIGHLY IRREGULAR, especially for a big casino group. Neteller is hardly some obscure payment method, it is one of the big three, and should be just as available as Click2Pay and Moneybookers when it comes to non-US and Canadian players.

If players come upon this problem, and are in the UK, and play in UK Pounds, I would advise accepting a cheque. Inconvenient, but should arrive quickly, and will clear in 3 banking days. Further, you have the winnings in your bank without having to stump up Neteller fees for moving it there.

I had this problem at Roxy Palace, where despite Neteller being my ONLY deposit method, they paid by cheque twice. This didn't make sense, but turned out only to be mildly inconvenient.

I can speculate that one possible reason casinos pretend "Neteller is unavailable" is to suppress "churning", where players redeposit soon after making a withdrawal. Paying by a non-instant method scuppers this. This, however, would count as LYING to the player, and deliberately stalling payment, rather than being honest and telling the player they cannot have bonuses within x days of a withdrawal - a term I have seen at many Playtech casinos in the past.

Were either of you "churning" relatively large amounts through the casino, or any amounts on a regular basis. In particular, withdrawing, only to redeposit straight away. This is a problem because of the fees casinos have to stump up, but they only have themselves to blame because they email offers to the player, and have this term "reversal of a withdrawal does not count as a deposit for the purpose of this promotion". This means that they have enticed an immediate deposit by making the offer, and the term means they themselves insist on this "churning" rather than allowing the funds to be reversed, which would not cost them any fees.

[Setsuna]

Finally received my cashout to my Neteller account , case closed and thanks to the Minivegas rep for his understanding

[funky_seagull]

Originally Posted by deucebag

This is not true. There are no international "agreements", laws or regulations that state that deposits have to be returned to the method of deposit. It is entirely up to the sites. They have to have systems in place to prevent money laundering, and there are a number of ways to go about this. I have played on as many sites that don't have that rule (Intercasino to name one), as I have sites that do.

actually when I made a withdrawal with intercasino they wouldn't allow me to withdraw to a different method other than the one I had deposited with, so that isn't correct.

[GrandMaster]

I managed to withdraw to my debit card from Neteller deposits at Inter.