issuing a challenge to 32red/mg

[Pinababy69]

You're a genius! I just had a lightbulb moment when reading your post and it seems that most low rollers such as yourself and KK don't feel any differences whereas others that play midrange and up are screaming changes have been made...

Well, lets think on this a moment..lowrollers play for hours upon hours and either win a "little" or lose a "little". They pretty much do not make an impact on a casinos bottom line unlike the midrange to high rollers. This then is where it gets touchy..if some of you low rollers started upping the bet and keeping it there for long term...I guarantee you would see the casino playing differently as we do that stay consistantly at the level we are comfortable with..

I believe you found the key to this issue!

So now we need you low rollers to go play for a week at the midlevel rang ($1-5 a spin) and let us know if it still plays as if you were lowrolling


See if the casinos will front you some real "fun" money in real mode to disprove this...

.

You could be right Silc. Most of my bets range from 18c to 50c....$5 a pull on a slot machine would give me the shakes, lol. I play low stakes because I only deposit $20 or $25 at a time, and I want to be able to play for more than 15 minutes. And...if I do get my small deposit up to $150 or so, I cash it out. And I'm quite happy with that. I think maybe expectation also comes into it, and what you're satisfied with. I remember Simmo one time saying that he prefers the "hit and run" style as opposed to playtime. He may deposit a few hundred dollars, and then take however many spins he can get at $5 a pop or whatever. If he loses, he walks away. If he hits, it's probably for a large amount, and he cashes out and walks away. I only play once or maybe twice a week, but when I do play...I've had many sessions where I play for hours at a time. Of course I want to win....but my first priority is enjoyment, and nothing more. It's my entertainment.

Patrina, many casino reps have said over the years that the chances are the same whether you are playing 25c a spin, or $1 a spin. But the way I look at it is this...if I had $100 and played $1 a spin, that's 100 spins. If I play 25c a spin, that's 400 spins. I have a much higher chance of hitting something worthwhile with 400 spins than I do with 100 spins.

Again, it comes back to expectation, and what you are looking to get out it. I've won a couple hundred dollars on 25c spins, so I don't feel the need to bet $1 a spin or more. I know that the higher I bet, while the chance for a "huge" payout may be there, my money is going to be gone a whole lot faster if I lose. I don't need to win thousands, I'm happy with a couple hundred.

Just as Rusty said, if you're going to play slots, I think that low-rolling is the only way to go.

Patrina, there's lots of slots you could play with only 9c or 18c. Kathmandu, Thunderstruck, Spring Break, No Worries...among others. I have had huge payouts on all of them on very small bets. I've won $300 on Kat on a 27c bet, $140 on No Worries on an 18c bet...those are just a couple. Few weeks ago I won $160 on Isis on a 25c bet, then went over to Dragon's Loot and won another $100 and some odd on another 25c bet. Had I been spinning for $1 or more, who knows if I would have gotten the chance to get those hits, as I may have zeroed out before I got there.

After all is said and done, it's really down to personal preference and what you want to get out of it. If you just want enjoyment and the chance to win a few bucks, then low rolling is the way to go. If you're looking for extended playtime, low rolling is the way to go. If you are looking for the big score, and want to play higher stakes, I don't "think" that slots are the way to go.

[patrina]

[
Patrina, many casino reps have said over the years that the chances are the same whether you are playing 25c a spin, or $1 a spin. But the way I look at it is this...if I had $100 and played $1 a spin, that's 100 spins. If I play 25c a spin, that's 400 spins. I have a much higher chance of hitting something worthwhile with 400 spins than I do with 100 spins.
Patrina, there's lots of slots you could play with only 9c or 18c. Kathmandu, Thunderstruck, Spring Break, No Worries...among others. I have had huge payouts on all of them on very small bets. I've won $300 on Kat on a 27c bet, $140 on No Worries on an 18c bet...those are just a couple. Few weeks ago I won $160 on Isis on a 25c bet, then went over to Dragon's Loot and won another $100 and some odd on another 25c bet. Had I been spinning for $1 or more, who knows if I would have gotten the chance to get those hits, as I may have zeroed out before I got there.

After all is said and done, it's really down to personal preference and what you want to get out of it. If you just want enjoyment and the chance to win a few bucks, then low rolling is the way to go. If you're looking for extended playtime, low rolling is the way to go. If you are looking for the big score, and want to play higher stakes, I don't "think" that slots are the way to go.



I too, am happy with a couple hun, or 2, but, ok, here's an example of typical play. You can be completely honest with me as I can take it

So, my first deposit is $30 or $25, then I go to jj or moonshine, I play .75 or $1 a spin, full lines. No bonus round and I lose it in a matter of mins. So, I do this about 10-15 x, the same app. amount of deposits, the same bet, the same game and no bonus round. It seems like it wants to stop, but goes by. Does this seem normal to you? So, I chime out for a day or two, go back and do it again. Sometimes chime out for a week. But, always go back to the same games at the same bets. I mean, this never used to happen to me. This is just in the past few months. I will try the lower bet though, I dont want to, but I will see if it makes a difference. It shouldn't (by rights that is) though, should it? Like you said, it's not supposed to matter? And then my Mom and I will take turns. She will go on for say $50 and go through the same thing. Oh yeah, and another interesting thing happens sometimes. If I reinstall, you know how all your games are reset right? So, I reinstall and then load a couple games, maybe a couple 3 reel too. So then I finish playing my Mom logs on and guess what? The "exact" same games are on her favourites, although I had just reinstalled and she hasn't even downloaded anything yet. She has her own account # etc. so does that make sense that "my" games are showing in her account? This has happened more then once...[/QUOTE]
Patrina

[Pinababy69]

I have absolutely no idea about the fav games thing Patrina, maybe that is something that Pat or someone more familiar with the actual workings of the software can answer.

Anyway, just try the low bets and see what happens. Don't get me wrong...if I do manage to get a $25 deposit up over $100, I will try a few higher bets also...but on games like Dragon's Loot, Isis, Moonshine, Jellyfish I will seldom go over 50 or 75c. I honestly don't feel the need to, as I know the potential for a huge payout is there even on a small bet. And I also know that the higher my bet...the quicker my money is going to go, beause overall I'm going to get fewer spins, and thus, less chance to hit something worthwhile.

Also, when I deposit $25, seldom do I start off on a 25 line machine. More often than not, I will go to a 9 liner like No Worries (high variance, but absolutely enormous potential payouts) or Kathmandu or Thunderstruck and start off with 18c bets. Kathmandu is one of my favourite games of all time, but I think I played it about a week or two ago, and I'm positive I went about 600 spins with no bonus round, and zeroed out on very low bets. It happens. It's obviously in a down cycle right now, so I'll just stay away from it, and try it again in a few weeks maybe. I've had sessions on it too, where I've gotten the free spins 5 times within 100 spins. To me, that is the definition of random.

Bottom line for me, is I start small and try and work my way up, change games, maybe up my bet here and there depending on how it's going. I just figure if I'm meant to win, I will win just as well on a $25 deposit and small wagers as I will on $100 deposit and $1 wagers. And don't get caught in the trap of "I'll stick with this game, cause it's DUE to hit soon". I've done that, and still do it on occasion, and I'm pisssed at myself every single time I do it. They are never due to hit...they hit whenever they bloody well feel like it...could be after 50 spins, could be after 1000 spins. It hasn't happened often, but I've had times when I played Thunderstruck and gone in the neighbourhood of 1200 spins with no bonus rounds at all. And whenever it does happen, I curse myself and ask why in the hell I didn't switch games after the first 300 dead spins? Cause my silly little gambler's mind tells me "it's gonna hit any time now, it's due". It isn't, and it won't.

I have been playing many more different games the last six months, and I can honestly say that I'm alot happier.

[patrina]

I have absolutely no idea about the fav games thing Patrina, maybe that is something that Pat or someone more familiar with the actual workings of the software can answer.

Anyway, just try the low bets and see what happens. Don't get me wrong...if I do manage to get a $25 deposit up over $100, I will try a few higher bets also...but on games like Dragon's Loot, Isis, Moonshine, Jellyfish I will seldom go over 50 or 75c. I honestly don't feel the need to, as I know the potential for a huge payout is there even on a small bet. And I also know that the higher my bet...the quicker my money is going to go, beause overall I'm going to get fewer spins, and thus, less chance to hit something worthwhile.

Also, when I deposit $25, seldom do I start off on a 25 line machine. More often than not, I will go to a 9 liner like No Worries (high variance, but absolutely enormous potential payouts) or Kathmandu or Thunderstruck and start off with 18c bets. Kathmandu is one of my favourite games of all time, but I think I played it about a week or two ago, and I'm positive I went about 600 spins with no bonus round, and zeroed out on very low bets. It happens. It's obviously in a down cycle right now, so I'll just stay away from it, and try it again in a few weeks maybe. I've had sessions on it too, where I've gotten the free spins 5 times within 100 spins. To me, that is the definition of random.

Bottom line for me, is I start small and try and work my way up, change games, maybe up my bet here and there depending on how it's going. I just figure if I'm meant to win, I will win just as well on a $25 deposit and small wagers as I will on $100 deposit and $1 wagers. And don't get caught in the trap of "I'll stick with this game, cause it's DUE to hit soon". I've done that, and still do it on occasion, and I'm pisssed at myself every single time I do it. They are never due to hit...they hit whenever they bloody well feel like it...could be after 50 spins, could be after 1000 spins. It hasn't happened often, but I've had times when I played Thunderstruck and gone in the neighbourhood of 1200 spins with no bonus rounds at all. And whenever it does happen, I curse myself and ask why in the hell I didn't switch games after the first 300 dead spins? Cause my silly little gambler's mind tells me "it's gonna hit any time now, it's due". It isn't, and it won't.

I have been playing many more different games the last six months, and I can honestly say that I'm alot happier.

Hey Pina, Yes I used to do the same thing that 'your better sense tells you to do' if it isn't paying get out! That is, until I spoke with a rep and asked for some possible tips on the slots. I explained my bad run and she said "what I can tell you is the longer you play a game the better" (and if that is not the case, then do you realize how much money I have lost because of misinformation?) (and that is a major concern for me omg, I played that way for a long time! thinking it was going to pay, so hang in there!) so I went after that for the longest time lately. I dont think that really makes a dif either. I think, if the wheels are spinning and your not getting credits, the chances are, it's not going to change. If they are spinning 'normally' (at a normal rate, not too slow, not too fast, and the same time frame between starts and stops) and your getting crap, unless the reels spin up or change then your sheet out of luck for that game on that day. I think at that point you gotta get out and go to a game that is paying better. I find though, if I am not doing so well and then I get the bonus round, sometimes this has mixed up the reels and sometimes this will change the outcome of the spin, and then it will start paying. Now, this may be just a coincidential thing, but I dont know, this is the kind of thing I would like to know more about. And, is it true that if you do real well on a game, and then dont cash out, you will have to wager that much that you won 'again' in order for it to start paying again? See, this is what I was told, so it can be very confusing for the player. And a huge loss if you are misinformed.

p.s. So, it seems that there is skill involved and some intelligence needed to do ok on any game, even slots. To drop in your cash and just 'hope' to win doesn't seem like the name of the game anymore. 'Maybe it never did, my epiphany? tee hee One well worth knowing perhaps?

[vinylweatherman]

Since the casinos are 100% certain the games are random, we shall expect NO CASES WHATSOEVER of casinos seeking to confiscate winnings, or issue bonus bans to SLOT players.

Sadly though, there have been several:-

2006 - MiniVegas - mass confiscation of winnings. SOME fraud involved (duplicate accounts/fake ID etc.) BUT quite a few players were told their slots play was "illegitimate".

So this was my WTF moment, "illegitimate" play on MG SLOTS, the ones we are told are RANDOM. MG cannot expect US to believe it if clearly THEY do not.

More recently, RIVAL have been mass bonus banning SLOTS players from bonus, again an oddity, as they have surely designed these bonuses to be -EV and players taking more bonuses are only going to lose long term.

CLEARLY, software slots are NOT completely random, there HAVE to be some strategies that can create a permanent +EV situation for players. Ruling out poorly constructed bonus promos, we still have a few very odd cases, such as the 2006 episode with MiniVegas, where one or two of the players said they not only played exclusively on slots, but that they took NO BONUS. Whatever "slot strategy" they used, MiniVegas believed that it worked, and started confiscating winnings.

I know know that there is something to look for


Now for this,

The absence of any Free Spins being activated cannot be seen as there being anything ‘wrong’ with the game and it certainly doesn’t indicate that 32Red operates ‘dodgy software’ supplied to us by Microgaming!

OK, now let's make it more specific, and see if it still makes sense,

The absence of any bonus wheels being activated on Mega Moolah in over half an hour cannot be seen as there being anything ‘wrong’ with the game and it certainly doesn’t indicate that xxxxx.Casino operates ‘dodgy software’ supplied to us by Microgaming!
I didn't "buy" that at the time, did anybody

[GrandMaster]

Or alternatively, the casino managers don't know anything about probability and get scared any time someone wins.

[Alexishot69]

i am NOT here having a go at 32red what i am doing is having a go at MG and its just that i play at 32red that i even mentioned them..kasinoking as someone pointed out earlier your remarks are pretty uncalled for ..i am not and never have been a complainer about anything in life but when i see something like i am seeing amongst others then i think its open for debate dont you? someone asked what other games i play and have played at mg inc,mermaids millions,spring break,ladies bite,bdb,jungle jim infact to be honest ove played mosta them all at low stakes and never ever had a thing its all just been on the take..what has been eye opening on this thread so far though is that vinyl has spotted what i can only call holes in 32reds defence and that sextremely worying surely for any player no?

[Pinababy69]

And, is it true that if you do real well on a game, and then dont cash out, you will have to wager that much that you won 'again' in order for it to start paying again? See, this is what I was told, so it can be very confusing for the player. And a huge loss if you are misinformed.

I don't know if that is the case Patrina...but what I can say is this, and I have been guilty of it myself. I've deposited say $25 and gone to No Worries (or any game), and within ten minutes I've turned that $25 into over $100 at least. Again, my gambler's mind starts telling me that hey, this slot is hot, up your bets and keep playing. And what happens? Yep, I lose it all. What the logical part of my brain should have been telling me is that I just got a 400% return on my deposit within ten minutes. The slot has given me what it's going to give me, at least for today. Of course it's going to take it back. It's not going to keep paying out at 400%, or even 200%. It's going to eat up that oh so rare huge hit/hits. Once you have had a big hit or two on a particular game, move on to something else. I'm good at saying it, but I don't practice it nearly enough. That's going to be my new rule for the New Year.

That's not to say though, that if I go to play a week later I won't have good luck again on that slot. I don't believe they have a memory that "stores" your large wins and makes you play it all back before you will win anything substantial on that same game again. I just think that in one particular session...you shouldn't push your luck with one game.

All this being said, this is just my own personal experience. There are many others on this forum who actually have an understanding of how the slots "work". I don't. I just play, I low roll, and I do what works for me, and what keeps me a satisfied customer and happy player. And yes, I have had long, and I mean long, extended periods where I couldn't buy a win no matter what I did. Two, three, four months at a time. But I find that rare.....there's usually one or two decent sessions in there at some point, where a cashout is feasible. I've also had periods of a week or two where I can't lose, and I mean at multiple casinos and softwares. Haven't had one of those in about eight months, but it will happen again. Until then, it's low rolling for me and just trying to enjoy the playtime I do get, which has been okay. And cashout even $100 or so when I can. $100 is four or five more deposits...why use my own money when I can play with theirs?

The way I look at it....if I go to a movie, by the time I pay for a babysitter, the movie, popcorn/drink and transportation....I'm spending close to $50 for two hours of entertainment. For $20 or $25 I can get the same level of enjoyment, and sometimes even get more than two hours of play...if I get a bit lucky. And that is all I ask for.

[patrina]

I don't know if that is the case Patrina...but what I can say is this, and I have been guilty of it myself. I've deposited say $25 and gone to No Worries (or any game), and within ten minutes I've turned that $25 into over $100 at least. Again, my gambler's mind starts telling me that hey, this slot is hot, up your bets and keep playing. And what happens? Yep, I lose it all. What the logical part of my brain should have been telling me is that I just got a 400% return on my deposit within ten minutes. The slot has given me what it's going to give me, at least for today. Of course it's going to take it back. It's not going to keep paying out at 400%, or even 200%. It's going to eat up that oh so rare huge hit/hits. Once you have had a big hit or two on a particular game, move on to something else. I'm good at saying it, but I don't practice it nearly enough. That's going to be my new rule for the New Year.

That's not to say though, that if I go to play a week later I won't have good luck again on that slot. I don't believe they have a memory that "stores" your large wins and makes you play it all back before you will win anything substantial on that same game again. I just think that in one particular session...you shouldn't push your luck with one game.

All this being said, this is just my own personal experience. There are many others on this forum who actually have an understanding of how the slots "work". I don't. I just play, I low roll, and I do what works for me, and what keeps me a satisfied customer and happy player. And yes, I have had long, and I mean long, extended periods where I couldn't buy a win no matter what I did. Two, three, four months at a time. But I find that rare.....there's usually one or two decent sessions in there at some point, where a cashout is feasible. I've also had periods of a week or two where I can't lose, and I mean at multiple casinos and softwares. Haven't had one of those in about eight months, but it will happen again. Until then, it's low rolling for me and just trying to enjoy the playtime I do get, which has been okay. And cashout even $100 or so when I can. $100 is four or five more deposits...why use my own money when I can play with theirs?

The way I look at it....if I go to a movie, by the time I pay for a babysitter, the movie, popcorn/drink and transportation....I'm spending close to $50 for two hours of entertainment. For $20 or $25 I can get the same level of enjoyment, and sometimes even get more than two hours of play...if I get a bit lucky. And that is all I ask for.

Yes, I try to think the same way. And yes I should cash out 'when' I can, but it always seems like I do well in the beginning of my play and then because I dont want to cash out yet, I dont and lose it all. That is not the casinos fault but my own, 'but' lately I, myself have done horribly, (except at Dash, mentioned) I mean really horribly. And by lately I mean in the past 6-7 months. And if you knew how much I deposited you would be stunned. And honest to god, I dont want to say who, because I dont want to do any bashing, but it 'was' a casino manager that told me about the rewagering. Seriously. So what am I supposed to think?
Patrina

[Pinababy69]

Seriously. So what am I supposed to think?
Patrina

LOL...wish I could tell you Patrina, but I can't. Again, can only go on my own personal experience. And I truly believe you guys when you say you have had horrendous playtime and luck. There are just too many people saying it, for me to discount it completely.

Maybe someone could answer this? Say a casino had their slots set to payout at 97.5%, and then had it changed to 95%. Would a small percentage drop actually account for a "noticeable" change in playtime/payouts? Especially for people who play higher stakes? I believe that when you low-roll as I do, you automatically lower your variance to begin with, as you are getting more spins from the outset. But if you are playing higher stakes, you are automatically raising your risk of ruin. Could a percentage point or two in payouts, actually alter a high roller's perception of what they are getting back, in terms of playtime, etc?

I'm no math whiz, and this is starting to go over my head, which is why I'm asking. I actually haven't checked the payout percentages for 32Red or any casino of late, but they do publish it monthly, so that's why I'm curious.