[Resolved] Casino Club - robot or no bot?

[cyprean]

FWIW this case just looks like the player got lucky and had a hot streak. Casino-Club doesn't seem to like big cash outs, they get reviewed and suddenly they found an excuse not to pay.

I maybe totally wrong but this is what this case looks like to me. I would not feel too confident about getting my money if I won anything big at Casino-Club after this incident. I hope they review the logs, realize their HUGE mistake and pay the player.

It just makes me sad that these kind of things happen. And the first time when this player tried to seek justice he got booted from forum. How many screwed players must be there that have had their winnings parted from them and give up in frustration?

[Casinomeister]

Here is an update:

I've just gotten off the phone with Casino Club, and after further reviews on this case and close cooperation between me, Max, Casino Club and other third parties, Casino Club has decided to pay out in full the winnings of the player, and the funds should be in his account by the next business day - I would guess Monday.

Casino Club is still convinced that the gaming session under scrutiny involved usage of a bot, but they agreed that in this specific case, that I would have the final word.

The bottom line is do not use bots - especially with Casino Club - or any site that prohibits the usage of bots in their terms and conditions. It is definitely not worth the hassle.

[Upset]

Good Job Casinomeister LAND. GOOD JOB!!!

[Casinomeister]

CM is enlisting the services of third parties to examine the play logs so that a qualified determination can be made with respect to alleged 'bot play'. Such an enforced situation is plainly ridiculous. Why engage third parties to read teal leaves - instead why not prohibit 'bot banning T+C'.

I don't dictate what the casinos state in their terms and conditions. That's something their lawyers are paid for. I am only concerned whether the terms and conditions are fair, and that the player and casino abides by them. I can always give advice, but it is up to the casino to decide whether or not my advice makes sense.

...It just makes me sad that these kind of things happen. And the first time when this player tried to seek justice he got booted from forum. How many screwed players must be there that have had their winnings parted from them and give up in frustration?

Anyone getting booted from the forum for fraudulent activity/bogus PABs has my email address and can always get back to me. There has only been about four or five cases like this in the last ten years where the player has asked me to check into it further and it turned out either I or the casino was wrong. 99% we're spot on - so it's not like there is a legion of jilted players out there.

[Simmo!]

Quite a case.

IMO the best that a Bot can achieve when a bonus isn't in play is optimum strategy. That still leaves a house edge, so a casino refusing to payout - even if Bot play is proved - is both wrong and unethical.

If Bot play is a worry when a bonus is in play, then casinos should change their T&C's to a) either remove BJ from the WR altogether or b) follow the Wagerworks model of awarding the bonus after WR is complete. It's not relevant in this case but the bottom line is, if you want to use the old "free money" to entice a player in, you have to expect to attract "advantage" players.

No sympathy either way for the casino from me.


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As an aside, knowing what goes on behind the scenes, if it had been me I'd have banned the posters who attacked the integrity of CM and Max because they disagreed with their opinions without knowing all the facts. That sort of short-sighted narrow-mindedness really pisses me off. Be constructive or don't get involved. Why the need to put someone down publically? It's not an opportunity for a bloody popularity contest.

Experienced members know Bryan offers this service free and is as ethical as they come. He (and Max) put a lot of time and effort into PABs and he doesn't have to. He's probably the most ethical guy in this industry that I've met so far. A lot of players come in, do a PAB then go without even so much as a thanks. I see comments like the ones earlier in this post and wonder why he even bothers.

[cyprean]

GG Casinomeister!

This is great news and you have AGAIN done a big favour to the player community. Thanks for taking the time and helping out the player.

[KasinoKing]

Here is an update:

I've just gotten off the phone with Casino Club, and after further reviews on this case and close cooperation between me, Max, Casino Club and other third parties, Casino Club has decided to pay out in full the winnings of the player, and the funds should be in his account by the next business day - I would guess Monday.

Brilliant news!
Well done CM, Max & all others involved in investigating this case!

As an aside, knowing what goes on behind the scenes, if it had been me I'd have banned the posters who attacked the integrity of CM and Max because they disagreed with their opinions without knowing all the facts. That sort of short-sighted narrow-mindedness really pisses me off. Be constructive or don't get involved. Why the need to put someone down publically? It's not an opportunity for a bloody popularity contest.

Experienced members know Bryan offers this service free and is as ethical as they come. He (and Max) put a lot of time and effort into PABs and he doesn't have to. He's probably the most ethical guy in this industry that I've met so far. A lot of players come in, do a PAB then go without even so much as a thanks. I see comments like the ones earlier in this post and wonder why he even bothers.

Brilliant post!

However I do have to say that to the outsider looking in, based solely on what was posted in this thread, there was no clear evidence of Bot play (quite the opposite in fact), and it did look initially like CM was going to agree with the casino. So it is understandable that some people got quite upset about this case.

KK

[Jufo]

The last unanswered question is: Will Casino Club be removed from the accredited casino list? The mishandling of this issue on their part is not a minor matter.

[tofu23]

I don't dictate what the casinos state in their terms and conditions. That's something their lawyers are paid for. I am only concerned whether the terms and conditions are fair, and that the player and casino abides by them. I can always give advice, but it is up to the casino to decide whether or not my advice makes sense.

No worries - understood. I wasn't having a crack at you but the need to go out and get third party opinions makes a circus out of a cash-out process that ought to be relatively straight forward. Play, win, cash-out. This 'bot ban' hoopla is illegitimate.

But anyway - again you have come to the fore in getting dough out an otherwise recalcitrant. Congratulations are in order. I'm sure the OP will tip something you're way because i doubt he was ever going to get paid a zack otherwise.

[Casinomeister]

The last unanswered question is: Will Casino Club be removed from the accredited casino list? The mishandling of this issue on their part is not a minor matter.

No. Bot complaints are complex - that's something that everyone I'm sure will agree with after reading this thread thoroughly...if they dare.

It's also a learning experience for all. I'm sure CC - and other casinos not directly involved - are reviewing some of the more constructive player opinions in this thread.