Are we about to lose out shirts?

[puggie.pete]

Are we sitting comfortably? Then let us begin.

About 2 month's ago a few friends and I were moaning about the lack of real feature packed fruit machines in UK pubs. They're a disappearing breed being replaced by video boxes, 50p spin machines and casino slots elsewhere.

So, we asked, 'what if there was a site that concentrated on the very best pub fruits, could it be done and could we do it'? Turns out it was the most expensive question we've ever asked, and the question that has got more abuse from forums than I have ever seen.

We, naively, thought fruit players would welcome this as the entire thing would concentrate on the amusement and playability aspect rather than the dosh. Equally, we thought the guys in forums would be delighted.

So, we popped into a few forums to ask players what did they want to see on this site, what kind of machines do they want resurrected and what features they most want to play. We would then build the machines in phase 2.

Jesus, if only we'd known.

<snip>

All of us have day jobs so we don't need this site, and we're beginning to think it is more hassle than it's worth.

We're doing this because we love the traditional feature packed machines which are disappearing and want to release games of a world class standard, which means we have to have a pay for option in order to fund it. You can pay if you like, but you can also play forever for free. Your choice.

We certainly are not going to retire on this otherwise we wouldn't have 5p spins available.

I would suggest it is what you do with the profit (if there is any) that counts. Say we make 10 grand, you can then spunk it on a trip to Vegas and have stories to tell, or you can reinvest it in the site to make more traditional feature packed fruits. We have to go down the latter route otherwise people will get bored, again, we all have day jobs so survive without any income from this venture.

Even asking for beta testers was an invitation to tear something down even before it was built up.

Profit = dirty big fat cats.
Top glass games to the emulation guys = so you're saying our version are crap?

We just can't win.

Are all forums like this or is it just a British thing?

And thanks hushda24 for supporting us. He posted a thread recently called "This will be interesting for UK fruity players". It was interesting, unbiased, non threatening and from a guy prepared to give others a chance before passing judgement.

<snip>

[Webzcas]

Wrong forum I do believe. Have you seen this forum description:

Online Casinos Online Casinos - Information, Experiences, questions and such. This is no place for ads or cloaked promos. Shills and spammers be warned

I am guessing this is also the reason you have had bad experiences on other forums, as you are not adhering to those forum rules concerning advertising of sites. Looks like a nice holding page though and I would certainly try it in guest mode.

[puggie.pete]

Apologies, the other thread about this was in this place. Where should it go? Or nowhere at all on here? We're asking for advice, not players.

[vinylweatherman]

Apologies, the other thread about this was in this place. Where should it go? Or nowhere at all on here? We're asking for advice, not players.

Your site is technically an "online casino". The games themselves do not define this, only the fact that real money can be gambled on the website. This IS therefore the correct forum section for discussing this site. The problem is whether we are discussing the site, or you are PROMOTING the site as your own.

As this is such a new idea, I think this thread should either stand, or be merged with the other one.

MY biggest concern is not the games, but the very low 80% RTP offered. While acceptable for machines in pubs, this will NOT work for an online site other than for novelty purposes. Players outside the UK will simply see this as an online casino offering 80% RTP, competing with other brands offering 95%.

You might get away with 90% minimum, believed to be the RTP of the Cryptologic slot games, and similar to what is now offered in the current breed of £500 Jackpot machines on offer.

For those who just want to relive their youth, there is the wide variety of games on the emulator site for free download and play.

There could be one way to sell the "80% experience", and that is to make your site more like one of the online mass multi-player games, rather than just an online casino. By this, I am thinking of having a virtual UK, where you travel to pubs, arcades, and service stations, and have your avatar along with the avatars of other players. We could then "shark" machines just like in the old days, watch for players to fill them up, and then try to take the "streak". You could argue that the mark up on the price of play because of a realistic 80% is to pay for the design of the realistic experience of a mass multi-player game, rather than the artificial feel to the games at online casinos (except the live dealer ones - perhaps). This could be VERY expensive if you have to buy in the skills, but could be something entirely new to the online gambling world, and there is no reason why online casino companies cannot have this kind of experience programmed into their casinos. Cryptologic are close, you have an avatar, and can click on a seat at a multi-player table, and if it looks full, there REALLY isn't room for you.

The bingo sites seem a little better, you can guide an avatar around a virtual bingo club, into different bingo rooms, slot rooms, and poker rooms. You can sit at an empty seat for bingo, or walk up to an unoccupied slot machine to play.

In terms of fact finding, it may have been better NOT to mention the 80% RTP until initial views had been given, and later mention this once it seemed likely there would be enough interest in building such a site.

IF there were NO online casinos to compare against, the 80% would not have been a problem, but the global community have shown us Brits what an incredible rip-off UK Fruit Machines have been when compared to the RTP at many land casinos that are around the 90% mark for slots.

[KasinoKing]

Apologies, the other thread about this was in this place. Where should it go? Or nowhere at all on here? We're asking for advice, not players.

Hi Pete,

I guess you found your way here doing a search after our PM's on another forum...?
You do need to be careful with all forums & their rules - I know your post is innocent in that respect (you're not trying to 'shill' your site), hopefully the mods here will see it that way too!

Vinylweatherman is 'The Man' for UK fruit machines IMHO - you would be wise to listen carefully to all his comments & advice.

Good luck!
KK

[RobWin]

Hi Pete,

I guess you found your way here doing a search after our PM's on another forum...?
You do need to be careful with all forums & their rules - I know your post is innocent in that respect (you're not trying to 'shill' your site), hopefully the mods here will see it that way too!

Vinylweatherman is 'The Man' for UK fruit machines IMHO - you would be wise to listen carefully to all his comments & advice.

Good luck!
KK

Very true KK, I'll second that...No doubt about Vinyls knowledge of the Pub Fruities !!

[suzecat]

Are we sitting comfortably? Then let us begin.

About 2 month's ago a few friends and I were moaning about the lack of real feature packed fruit machines in UK pubs. They're a disappearing breed being replaced by video boxes, 50p spin machines and casino slots elsewhere.

So, we asked, 'what if there was a site that concentrated on the very best pub fruits, could it be done and could we do it'? Turns out it was the most expensive question we've ever asked, and the question that has got more abuse from forums than I have ever seen.

We, naively, thought fruit players would welcome this as the entire thing would concentrate on the amusement and playability aspect rather than the dosh. Equally, we thought the guys in forums would be delighted.

So, we popped into a few forums to ask players what did they want to see on this site, what kind of machines do they want resurrected and what features they most want to play. We would then build the machines in phase 2.

Jesus, if only we'd known.

<snip>

All of us have day jobs so we don't need this site, and we're beginning to think it is more hassle than it's worth.

We're doing this because we love the traditional feature packed machines which are disappearing and want to release games of a world class standard, which means we have to have a pay for option in order to fund it. You can pay if you like, but you can also play forever for free. Your choice.

We certainly are not going to retire on this otherwise we wouldn't have 5p spins available.

I would suggest it is what you do with the profit (if there is any) that counts. Say we make 10 grand, you can then spunk it on a trip to Vegas and have stories to tell, or you can reinvest it in the site to make more traditional feature packed fruits. We have to go down the latter route otherwise people will get bored, again, we all have day jobs so survive without any income from this venture.

Even asking for beta testers was an invitation to tear something down even before it was built up.

Profit = dirty big fat cats.
Top glass games to the emulation guys = so you're saying our version are crap?

We just can't win.

Are all forums like this or is it just a British thing?

And thanks hushda24 for supporting us. He posted a thread recently called "This will be interesting for UK fruity players". It was interesting, unbiased, non threatening and from a guy prepared to give others a chance before passing judgement.

<snip>

OK, you asked for advice, so here's my two pence...........

This is the wrong thread, IMO, for posting this sort of "strictly commercial" stuff. There is a place in the forum for this and if you delete the two references to your site, it would be appropriate where it is...........best of luck to you.

[vinylweatherman]

OK, you asked for advice, so here's my two pence...........

This is the wrong thread, IMO, for posting this sort of "strictly commercial" stuff. There is a place in the forum for this and if you delete the two references to your site, it would be appropriate where it is...........best of luck to you.

It is a fine line. Including URLs is often the work of spammers and shills, however, where discussion is being sought, how can members participate if we are not allowed to view the site we are supposed to be discussing?

To comply with forum rules, the actual URL and site description (or promotion) can go into "strictly commercial", and the fact noted in any discussion here, but with NO URL being posted in this section. Anybody wanting to join in can check "strictly commercial" for the URL and promotional literature, and come back here and discuss. The constant misuse of the forum by those who only seek to promote sites, rather than engage in genuine discussion, is what makes it seem that you are being "fed to the lions" when posting what you think of as a request for views, that happens to include the URL rather than a descriptive piece on the venture (with no URL).

This is certainly a bold venture, and indeed is an idea I thought might work, provided the right backing could be obtained, and agreement sought and obtained to use the material for reproducing the games online.

Making it turn a profit is far harder, and "Fruit Machines" of this type are pretty unique to the UK. Players outside the UK will not really know what is on offer, and will draw comparisons with the current crop of online casinos, and what they claim to be "Fruit Machines". Microgaming are the closest any major online casino software has come to reproducing "Fruit Machines". There are some minor sites that offer Fruit Machine style games, or at least claim to do so, such as Cyberslotz. I tried Cyberslotz, but could never get the sofware to work, nor ever get a reply from their CS; result = I gave up!

The only way to test the waters would be to put up a few games that have proved most popular among UK Fruitie players of old, and track site visits and participation. Invite registration for a "newsletter", and use this if necessary to invite feedback BEFORE going all in with a real money option.

Interestingly, the most popular machines are usually those that had a "method", and where good players could turn a profit. For a start, this rules out the majority of post 1996 games, and I believe the first part of the 90's was the "golden age" for making SERIOUS money from Fruit Machines.
There ARE a few post 1996 games that were good, but decent releases are getting fewer, favouring instead the £500 JP video slots, and £35 Fruit Machines where EVERY feature blocks religiously at £5 or less, and no real "methods" or "streaks" exist.

PS - as for arcades paying over 80% being "confidential", maybe, but not what you are thinking (non UK that is) - it is FRUITIE PLAYERS that hold such info as "confidential", as the last thing they want is the whole of the UK player community descending on "their" arcade and milking "their" machines.
The arcade itself would be only too pleased if they suddenly had an avalanche of customers pouring money into their machines.
As for Motorway Services, RoadChef are the best at 74% (still crap though), with Moto and Welcome Break coming in at 70% to 72%. Very occasionally, you see a machine labelled at 80%, but this cannot be relied upon as it could have been resited and the label not altered.

Be VERY CAREFUL not to use "bad" software that could lead to an "emptier" on the site, then you really could "lose your shirt". Using original ROMs can lead to this situation, although a safeguard could be programmed in to simulate the finite hopper that real machines use, and if the machine is "emptied" it halts and goes "out of order - the engineer has been called" once a certain amount has been taken, rather than enabling the "infinite hopper" model in use at online casinos. (Oh, for a "method" on one of these ).