RTG 100% guaranteed strategy but is it abuse?

[KasinoKing]

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

I'm still shaking my head that people run around to a dozen different games lining up bonus rounds, making notations, logging in and out of games....all to make a few bucks. Whatever floats your boat I guess, but honestly, I just couldn't be bothered. Sort of takes the fun out of playing.

Me too!
I have known for years that there are mathematical ways to play bonuses to virtually guarantee escaping with your deposit & a tiny proportion of the bonus - but where's the fun in that?
I'm a gambler - I like gambling!

(It's just that I don't like losing too much - so I don't! )

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by KasinoKing

Me too!
I have known for years that there are mathematical ways to play bonuses to virtually guarantee escaping with your deposit & a tiny proportion of the bonus - but where's the fun in that?
I'm a gambler - I like gambling!

(It's just that I don't like losing too much - so I don't! )

Correction

I have known for years that there are mathematical ways to play bonuses to virtually guarantee escaping with your deposit, and a big argument over payment of winnings.

Come off it KK, you have all those spreadsheets giving your sessions in almost pedantic detail.

The only difference between you and most advantage players is that your methods do not rely on mathematical trickery, but strategy.

It is the fault of RTG for designing such a unique game where not only do you know EXACTLY what your bonus round will pay out, but can manipulate it such that you can virtually guarantee it's payment in the next dozen spins.

The other games are far less "abusive", Super Diamond Mine, for example, can give you nothing at all for the bonus round, despite what may have been pumped into the game.

I have not seen a game like it anywhere else, but the nearest is Microgaming's "Chief's Fortune" slot, where again the bonus payout is never zero, and can be predicted fairly closely. Many MG casinos got rid of this game when it was heavily scammed in 2006, and there is no reason for RTG not to do the same by getting rid of the worst offender, Frozen Assets.
Microgaming introduced another though, Tomb Raider II, however it is possible to get zero payout from the passport bonus, and it is very hard to predict when the last passport will fall - sometimes it can take hundreds of spins for the last one, and it can all be for nothing.

RTG operators must know about the Frozen Assets vulnerability, Virtual Danny did ages ago - if it becomes a problem, it will be fixed. It will now become a problem since the strategy has been posted in great detail bar one mistake, in that you should stop at 197 snowflakes, as it is possible to hit the bonus early when going for 199 by getting 3 in a winline

[winbig]

Microgaming introduced another though, Tomb Raider II, however it is possible to get zero payout from the passport bonus, and it is very hard to predict when the last passport will fall - sometimes it can take hundreds of spins for the last one, and it can all be for nothing.

That is true, but if you read the fine print, it says that the pays are based on your average bet....

But, how do they average it? From the time you get your first passport? From when you last logged in? The last time you loaded the game? Interesting

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by winbig

That is true, but if you read the fine print, it says that the pays are based on your average bet....

But, how do they average it? From the time you get your first passport? From when you last logged in? The last time you loaded the game? Interesting

It is the same with Frozen Assets. You cannot gather 197 snowflakes at 5c, and suddenly go to $5 to empty out the snowman (it takes you to a different machine).

With TRII, the payout is unknown, unlike Frozen Assets, and it can be average bet times ZERO!

How this average is calculated may be exploitable, but who knows, and if done properly, there should be no exploit that gives an overall advantage, although it may well look like it from time to time to the player.

[winbig]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

It is the same with Frozen Assets. You cannot gather 197 snowflakes at 5c, and suddenly go to $5 to empty out the snowman (it takes you to a different machine).

With TRII, the payout is unknown, unlike Frozen Assets, and it can be average bet times ZERO!

How this average is calculated may be exploitable, but who knows, and if done properly, there should be no exploit that gives an overall advantage, although it may well look like it from time to time to the player.

When TR2 first came out, I remember seeing a SS of something like $7xx.....and their bet size was .01 - .01x1 line! It was in play mode, but I'm sure it'd be the same as real.

[kimss]

The average on the passports are supposedly from the betsize you triggered them.

[KasinoKing]

Originally Posted by winbig

When TR2 first came out, I remember seeing a SS of something like $7xx.....and their bet size was .01 - .01x1 line! It was in play mode, but I'm sure it'd be the same as real.

Originally Posted by kimss

The average on the passports are supposedly from the betsize you triggered them.

This is my understanding of how it works:-

From the last Global Bonus (or from when you played the slot for the very first time) to the time the bonus is triggered, all your total wagers are added up and the potential prizes you can win in the GB are proportional to that figure.

i.e. It makes no difference what you're betting when you get the 5th passport (it could even be 1c on 1 line), the potential payout is still based on ALL your bets since the last bonus.

I've been playing TR2 every day this month for the Lads scratchies: here's some stats!

Got to the end 3-times (collected 5 bits of sword):-
1. Spins: 318, Wagered: £197, Won: £63.27
Loc 1: Sword! (7.72)
Loc 2: Trap, prize, Sword! (10.80)
Loc 3: Trap, Sword! (9.26)
Loc 4: Prize, Sword! (6.95)
Loc 5: Prize, Sword! (13.11)

2. Spins: 212, Wagered: £234, Won: £118.16
Loc 1: Prize, Sword! (26.09)
Loc 2: Prize, Sword! (23.02)
Loc 3: Sword! (7.67…. WTF???)
Loc 4: Sword! (15.35)
Loc 5: Trap, prize, prize Sword! (15.34)
Bonus = 30.69

3. Spins: 435, Wagered: £301, Won: £71.86
Loc 1: Prize, Sword! (11.15)
Loc 2: Trap, prize, prize, prize…. TRAP! … But… Fight = WIN! (8.77)
Loc 3: Trap, Sword! (9.56)
Loc 4: Prize, Sword! (10.35)
Loc 5: Sword! (7.96)
Bonus = 23.89

I don't know what this tells you - but I hope it's vaguely useful!

So far I have done 3,112 spins & got the GB 12 times = average 259 spins between each. If this slot is truly random like the other MG ones, that means the reels must have something like 260 symbols each!!!

In 4 of those 12 bonuses I have got 'killed' in the first location - including the last 3 in a row! This is a real bummer because I was doing pretty well for the month until now...
(I'm still ahead though )

KK

[kimss]

Let me clarify since there seems to be confusion in the land of confusion,

According to what my eyes was reading in the rulespage of the game, the win is accoring to you wagering at the time you collect the passports.

Lets assume some spins, since I get the feeling you do not see this.

0.01 spin
0.01 spin
0.05 spin
0.15 spin
0.30 spin
0.60 spin
0.90 spin, collect passport
3.00 spin
3.00 spin
3.00 spin, collect passport

Let's assume the above bets, and two collected passports. The passports are collected at 0.9 + 3 = 3,9 bet total.

This means:
If you are really lucky (we are to believe) and get the passports at high wager, and do all the spins in between for nothing, you will have the chance to get rich! (I promise you however it wlil not work, it will take endless spins as you start upping the bet, OR - you pick TRAP TRAP TRAP). Atleast this was my prize for managing a pretty succesfull version of the tactics mentioned.

The more you loose the bigger the win is my opinion!

But then again, why do the wins in the bonus game perform so differently? I collected all swords on $3 - $6 wagers once (never again!), and I won like $50 or so, I collected a few before the traps however the wins were very small! Then I had a bonus at $0.5 - $0.75 and I won over $200!

YEEEiii....

Todays lesson: why bet above $1?

[KasinoKing]

Sorry this thread is totally derailed now! Maybe a Mod could split it out...?

Originally Posted by kimss

Let me clarify since there seems to be confusion in the land of confusion,

According to what my eyes was reading in the rulespage of the game, the win is accoring to you wagering at the time you collect the passports.

Where are you reading those rules?

I just checked the rules again via a casino and found that I was slightly wrong too - the bets only count after getting the first passport:-

* All random bonus win amounts displayed in the Global Adventure bonus game are already multiplied by your weighted average bet.

* The weighted average bet is calculated from the time the first Passport symbol is displayed on the center position of a reel to activate the reel, until the Global Adventure bonus game is finally activated. Only the bonus win amount is displayed.

A lot depends on your interpretation of "weighted average bet" - but to me it means your average bet over all the spins between the first & last passport. That is what the above says to me.

One thing this does indicate is that you may as well bet only 1c/line until you get the first passort...!

KK

[kimss]

Originally Posted by KasinoKing

A lot depends on your interpretation of "weighted average bet" - but to me it means your average bet over all the spins between the first & last passport. That is what the above says to me.

OK, so to be perfectly clear - this machine DO have a memory of what you have wagered when you get to the bonus... This slot in plain view states that the bonus win is balanced from your previous play... Now that should be interesting!

Anyway, enough slots for today! Just had 1000+ spins of 85% payut, yeejjj... I am still waiting for that day when I can win again... Atleast 85% is better than 75%... Guess I should have withdawed when winning $40 on break da bank... (When I think of it, I should have stopped and continued depositing in another casino really, darn!)