Put the MG RNG to the test!

[kimss]

Well, some of us in here are software developers and we sure as hell have people with math skills. Why do we not do the following:

We recreate Thunderstruck and put it to the test with a real RNG!

Zoozie could easily give us a random alrorythm, we already have the reels and we know what the win combinations are. We do not need to do anything, since the reels are already 95%. This would be perfect, and so easy for us. All we need is just a playable environment with a bankroll and different denominations.

Then we can start playing using high and low wagers and see if it plays out the same as usual! If that happends - I'll shut up for life regarding this topic. Do we still loose as much, do we get the same bad spells? I would love to see this in action, heck maby I'll even pay some flash dude to do this for my own personal entertainment!

When I think of it I could most likely create this game in PHP and MySQL which is my field, however I would think a flash version would be more "dynamical".

What about this idea? That would really stop all our mouthes when I think of it, mystery solved! If we chip in together here, I guess we spend a few hours each on the project - it sure as hell beats complaining in here for next 50 years!

Anyone?

[winbig]

Well, some of us in here are software developers and we sure as hell have people with math skills. Why do we not do the following:

We recreate Thunderstruck and put it to the test with a real RNG!

Zoozie could easily give us a random alrorythm, we already have the reels and we know what the win combinations are. We do not need to do anything, since the reels are already 95%. This would be perfect, and so easy for us. All we need is just a playable environment with a bankroll and different denominations.

Then we can start playing using high and low wagers and see if it plays out the same as usual! If that happends - I'll shut up for life regarding this topic. Do we still loose as much, do we get the same bad spells? I would love to see this in action, heck maby I'll even pay some flash dude to do this for my own personal entertainment!

When I think of it I could most likely create this game in PHP and MySQL which is my field, however I would think a flash version would be more "dynamical".

What about this idea? That would really stop all our mouthes when I think of it, mystery solved! If we chip in together here, I guess we spend a few hours each on the project - it sure as hell beats complaining in here for next 50 years!

Anyone?

It wouldn't be a good test.

Why? Hardware vs. Pseudo RNG.

[kimss]

It wouldn't be a good test. Why? Hardware vs. Pseudo RNG.

I do not agree, I am sure Zoozie or KasinoKing can give us a more than good enough mathematical equation combining with pseudo-rng which will render a more than good enough RNG for this experiment.

I could hook up a webcam outside my office which streams in realtime, we could do a SHA1 checksum of the image and use that as seed? How complicated do we need this?

If Zoozie can verify the machine being random with his own slot analyzer, surely the same RNG must be good enough for a test like this - if not you are saying pretty many things at once!

A pseudo-rng, also, works just aswell unless you know what kind of rng it is and therefore have knowledge of how to predict the sequences coming out, something we are not interested in doing in this experiment. The point here is for us gambling addicts wagering at a machine that is truly random, will we still loose, will we still win? I do not know, I for one sure would love to try this!

[oyw7862]

thanks KK, the reel postion map.
-- http://www.slotbeaters.com/SlotStats/ThunderStruck.htm

Sorry to say it, but we need more information on RNG.

the most important is to know which method is used to eliminate "bias sequence".

[kimss]

Sorry to say it, but we need more information on RNG.

the most important is to know which method is used to eliminate "bias sequence".

Well, I call for KK and Zoozie to enlighten us with a good enough random equation for this experiment.

If it's down to a seed of some sort being the magic trick, I am pretty sure we could hook up a radio somewhere and let the static be used as a seed though the mic into a soundcard. (You know the noice, just like on the TV where there are no channels).

To be honest, we could even precalculate a million random numbers, aslong as the players in the experiment don't know them. The point here is just let us play in a controlled environment where we know it's random.

However I have a feeling most operating systems today are capable of creating a good enough RNG engine for this purpose.

[winbig]

nvm, it's a pay service for anything they don't have listed for 'free...', ie: nothing that could be used here.

(http://www.random.org/premium/)

[Pocketdiggers77]

nvm, it's a pay service for anything they don't have listed for 'free...', ie: nothing that could be used here.

(http://www.random.org/premium/)

"The randomness comes from atmospheric noise, which for many purposes is better than the pseudo-random number algorithms typically used in computer programs."

Anyone care to explain how you can get randomness from atmospheric noise?

[winbig]

"The randomness comes from atmospheric noise, which for many purposes is better than the pseudo-random number algorithms typically used in computer programs."

Anyone care to explain how you can get randomness from atmospheric noise?

Sure:

However, there are many other ways to get true randomness into your computer. A really good physical phenomenon to use is a radioactive source. The points in time at which a radioactive source decays are completely unpredictable, and they can quite easily be detected and fed into a computer, avoiding any buffering mechanisms in the operating system. The HotBits service at Fourmilab in Switzerland is an excellent example of a random number generator that uses this technique. Another suitable physical phenomenon is atmospheric noise, which is quite easy to pick up with a normal radio. This is the approach used by RANDOM.ORG. You could also use background noise from an office or laboratory, but you'll have to watch out for patterns. The fan from your computer might contribute to the background noise, and since the fan is a rotating device, chances are the noise it produces won't be as random as atmospheric noise.

http://www.random.org/randomness/

btw, they've been around since 1997, so I think they know what they're doing.

http://www.random.org/history/

Interestingly enough:

Chapter 0: How It All Began... (1997)

RANDOM.ORG started during the summer of 1997 when I was working for a startup that was building an engine for online gambling. It was a small operation: just four guys constructing a prototype with the intention of raising money for further development. The engine was designed such that there was a core of functionality for which various game modules could be written. We implemented a prototype of the engine itself and a series of game modules that allowed you to play lottery, blackjack and slot machines in your web browser.

[Pocketdiggers77]

I should have been more specific. How do you get a random number TO your computer from atmospheric noise. Actually, never mind on that last question. I did a little research and this is way over my head. I did find this interesting

A physical random number generator can be based on an essentially random atomic or subatomic physical phenomenon whose unpredictability can be traced to the laws of quantum mechanics. An example of this are the Atari 8-bit computers, which used electronic noise from an analog circuit to generate true random numbers.

ANyone have an Atari 8-bit computer laying around?

[DiamondGeezer]

That sounds like the Atari ST. A real beast in it's day and made in huge numbers. Good graphics too.

This sounds like an interesting project - good luck with it.