Slot Mechanics (Was: Fruit Frenzy Game glitch or frenzy?)

[Fleur-De-Lis]

I was playing Fruit Frenzy game many of you probably know. Unfortunately, when I played for real I did not think to take screenshots, so I later on I made similar screenshots for easier understanding of what I am talking about, while re-playing in fun mode.

That's what happened. I had hit two 5-of-a-kind at the same time, which entitled me to Bonus round(s). Here are the terms:


Next step, I was taken to a page that looks like this:

Only in my case, I had words 'bonus round 1 of 2' on the top - I had to make 3 shots two times, total of 6 attempts.
When I was on my 2nd round shooting this strawberry creature, below that message 'Round 2 of 2', I had seen message '45 free spins awarded so far'

With shoots completed, I was returned to main screen:

and got message on top "30 free spins - start your free spins".

I do not know if I should be confused, I guess I am. First, 45 is not the same as 30 (not with my bet size, at least). Second, I cannot figure out how one can get 45 free spins (on a single bonus round, max. you can get if you shoot poor strawberry on target, is 25 spins. I believe I hit it 5 times out of 6, that's supposed to be 40. Neither 45, nor 30...). May be when you get 2 rounds simultaneously, it is different? Confused...

P.S. Casino support "will look into it" of course, but I was under impression that the rep thought I am crazy/retarded when I was explaining the matter...

[vinylweatherman]

Sounds like a glitch in the display.

30 spins can be gained by 2x15, or by reaching 25 on one round and getting the 0 hits consolation of 5 on the second.

I have had 2 bonus rounds before, and did not see anything amiss at the time. Indeed, I hit the full 50 spins.


There IS something odd about this game though, look VERY closely at the rules

[Fleur-De-Lis]

1)

There IS something odd about this game though, look VERY closely at the rules

I looked into it till my eyes started hurting Please hint.

2)

I have had 2 bonus rounds before, and did not see anything amiss at the time

Do you remember if there was sort of a status message when on a second round? In my case, it was below words "Round 2 of 2" and just before I got redirected back to slots read "45 free spins awarded so far". I tried to re-create the situation in fun play, but did not have the patience...

[vinylweatherman]

1)

I looked into it till my eyes started hurting Please hint.

2)

Do you remember if there was sort of a status message when on a second round? In my case, it was below words "Round 2 of 2" and just before I got redirected back to slots read "45 free spins awarded so far". I tried to re-create the situation in fun play, but did not have the patience...

OK then

It does not matter how many lines you play on the base game, free spins are ALWAYS played on ALL 25 LINES!!

These slots are not the same as "normal" video slots, they are weighted and/or regulated in some way, else it would be impossible to have different RTG casinos with different payout settings for each game (93%, 95% and 97% are supposedly confirmed as available).

It is therefore quite possible that optimum strategy lies in NOT playing all 25 lines in the base game, and amplifying the LINE BET that governs the overall cap on feature payouts, as well as ensuring some decent payouts on a relatively small stake.
The cap is set as 40,000 x LINE BET, so by triggering the bonus with fewer lines, the cap as a multiple of initial stake should be that much greater.

It is when you get a retrigger that this REALLY comes into play

[Zodiac]

You can be sure that the strawberry will not fly all into melon.

I guess it was near the 30 as 45 spins.

15 and 15 or 25 and 5

The strawberry flys surely minimum 3 times out of the melon and say "oops"

Can be that there was showing a message for 45 spins but assume that it was 30 spins whereby I like to grant you the 45.

wait what support say, good luck

[KasinoKing]

OK then

It does not matter how many lines you play on the base game, free spins are ALWAYS played on ALL 25 LINES!!
...

It is therefore quite possible that optimum strategy lies in NOT playing all 25 lines in the base game, and amplifying the LINE BET that governs the overall cap on feature payouts, as well as ensuring some decent payouts on a relatively small stake.

Surprised you missed this one VWM!

The bonus is always played on 25 lines because the feature is triggered by 5 of a kind on a WINLINE, and NOT by getting scatters anywhere in view.

All line wins on any slot should be the same regardless of how many lines you are playing, otherwise it wouldn't be fair.
E.G. If you played just 1 line on the slot & got 4 of a kind, it would pay the same (for that line) as if you were playing 25 lines.

So the 'value' of the feature is exactly the same on Fruit Frenzy whether you play 25 lines or just 1 line.
Of course, if you only play 1 line it will take you 25x more spins (on average) to hit the feature.
Therefore everything evens out to give the same return in the long run, no matter how many lines you play.

KK

[vinylweatherman]

Surprised you missed this one VWM!

The bonus is always played on 25 lines because the feature is triggered by 5 of a kind on a WINLINE, and NOT by getting scatters anywhere in view.
All line wins on any slot should be the same regardless of how many lines you are playing, otherwise it wouldn't be fair.
E.G. If you played just 1 line on the slot & got 4 of a kind, it would pay the same (for that line) as if you were playing 25 lines.

So the 'value' of the feature is exactly the same on Fruit Frenzy whether you play 25 lines or just 1 line.
Of course, if you only play 1 line it will take you 25x more spins (on average) to hit the feature.
Therefore everything evens out to give the same return in the long run, no matter how many lines you play.

KK

Not with RTG though

With MG, the feature would have the same value, however, RTG has some kind of weighting or dynamic reel strip allocation that is used to control the payback.
Playing fewer lines would force such balancing software to give more in the way of 5 of a kind wins in order to meet the target set by the operator.

On top of this, RTG casinos are heavily into giving phantom boni, and to beat such offers, higher variance is needed.

If Fruit Frenzy is played with a lower number of lines, the features will trigger less often, however they will pay more, and far more use will be made of these phantom bonuses. More chance of them coming into play before a big hit comes along.

With the play involving a slot, "excluded games" should not become a point of argument when it comes to paying out.

If any RTG casino sees fit to exclude "Fruit Frenzy" from bonus play, I would take this as a direct admission that their slots are not "standard", but weighted with payouts configurable - something we all know, but no RTG casino would care to spell out in public

Put another way - it works

[DogBoy001]

Not with RTG though

With MG, the feature would have the same value, however, RTG has some kind of weighting or dynamic reel strip allocation that is used to control the payback.
Playing fewer lines would force such balancing software to give more in the way of 5 of a kind wins in order to meet the target set by the operator.

On top of this, RTG casinos are heavily into giving phantom boni, and to beat such offers, higher variance is needed.

If Fruit Frenzy is played with a lower number of lines, the features will trigger less often, however they will pay more, and far more use will be made of these phantom bonuses. More chance of them coming into play before a big hit comes along.

With the play involving a slot, "excluded games" should not become a point of argument when it comes to paying out.

If any RTG casino sees fit to exclude "Fruit Frenzy" from bonus play, I would take this as a direct admission that their slots are not "standard", but weighted with payouts configurable - something we all know, but no RTG casino would care to spell out in public

Put another way - it works

Hi all,

My first post, though I must say I've read through the forums for some time now.

I think it's fitting that I reply, given that my company designs and supplies numerous games to both the land-based and net gaming industries.

My way of background, I was a strategy game designer who fell into gaming (gambling) games after many years whiling away the hours in a multitude of Australian pubs, clubs and casinos.
I joined IGT and ended up designing over a hundred slot games there, before joining a company founded by by former IGT director to design and develop games with a wider industry focus (by that read "internet", to accompany traditional development)
I have, throughout the years, designed games for most of the majors, both land-based and net.

Now to the case in point:
KasinoKing is correct, mathematically it the same whether it is 1 line or 25 lines, and in this case there is no supplementary weghting system required (indeed unless the software is absolute crap I can't think of a case in which it would be required).
In its simplest form:
While the chance to trigger at max line is 25 times the chance on 1 line, the bet is proportional.
In both instances the play in free games is at 25 lines.

Let's say RTP per free game is 5000%, since calculations would be based on single line play, but 25 are now being used (so base game RTP in this instance is 25 that of the typical base RTP, assuming no reel strip or other adjustments are occurring).
The chance to trigger on 1 line may be, for example, 1 in 2500.

So in the case of a trigger on 1 line: 1/2500*5000% = relative return per game = 2% (of total RTP)
In the case of trigger on 25 lines: 25/2500*5000%/25 = 2% of total RTP (you're dividing by 25 as the bet is now 25 times higher)

If there were on average, say, 12 games, feature RTP would be 12*2% = 24% (out of say a 95% game total RTP)

Hope that makes sense

Da Dog

[Simmo!]

Hi all,

My first post, though I must say I've read through the forums for some time now.

I think it's fitting that I reply, given that my company designs and supplies numerous games to both the land-based and net gaming industries.

Welcome DogBoy. You could be an interesting person to have around here

[Fleur-De-Lis]

Ok guys, here is what CS got back to me with (to be honest, I did not expect them to):

Hi

You played 25 lines, each at 0.25c a line, with a total bet of $6.25.

On the game number 154708179, you got 2 lines where you activated the free game feature by getting 2 x 5 goggles on a winning line; this meant you would have had 2 chances of winning free spins through the bonus feature.

This happened by having a goggle or substitute symbol on the following reels. You have activated it twice by having 5 of a kind winning lines.

Once you activated the bonus feature, you have 3 shots of shooting a strawberry out of a canon into a melon. And based on the result you get awarded free games as follows:

0 hits: 5 free spins
1 hit: 10 free spins
2 hits: 15 free spins
3 hits: 25 free spins

You got 2 hits on each feature you played and thus was rewarded with 30 free spins.

It is impossible to get 45 free spins from 2 bonus features, as it does not add up max you can get is 50 free spins, by getting 3 out of 3 on each feature round, after that the 2nd highest is 40 free spins by getting 25 on one win and another 15 on another win, after that 35 free spins with a 25 and a 10 win, and then what you received 2 x 15 free spin wins.

Hope that satisfies you

Best regards
Maurizio
Casino support
--------------------

Not that I am going to pursue it, no point whatsoever...BUT. 1) I *know* I got 30 free spins, and I *know* that 45 free spins cannot add up (see my posts 1&3), the reason I contacted CS was the message "45 free spins awarded so far" 2) I was positive I had 5 hits, and CS says it was 4. Fine, np again. However it looks like he is just guessing. In my original chat session I asked him if I can get access to games history and probably see screenshots of this particular games (like one can do in MG casinos), and he seemed genuinely puzzled. Screenhots, what? You can see them if you have taken them, no other way. LOL, I guess