Why do people join rogue casino's??

[same_old]

Hi Meister heads,

Hey I just want some of your guys feed back on why you think people will sign up to rogue casino's before they will do any research AT ALL.

I was up the top of the website earlier saying hello to the new members and noticed a few have signed up with complaints regarding the rogues such as coolcat and all of virtual casino's. Why dont they do any research to find out about the casino they are about to join, It blows my mind that they are quick to give there money away and any personal detials to go along with it.
I know they get spammed the shit out of but looking at the spam emails is enough of an indicator surely!!

I know casinomeister and max are fed up when they see a new thread here saying "virtual wont pay" as it is the same story over and over.

Do you all think it has dropped off and more people are becoming aware of the rogue casino's, or has it increased???

When the client does end up getting ripped of what searches do they do to come across casnomeister??

What entices them to join rogue casino's more than accredited ones??

I personally think it's becoming a trend!!

 

[suzecat]

same_old, it's easy, IMHO, it's called bang for the buck! With ridiculously high bonuses being offered, a small deposit goes a long way. Once the player gets fleeced, they look on the web for answers. Voila! there's Casinomeister.

 

[chuchu59]

Another reason is that many just dont care whether they are rogues or not. I remember Virtualted mentioning that he had customers that just want to play and if the casino read the player right and shower him with appropriate bonuses or sometimes even daring them to beat the highest winning sessions, they fall for it.

In my early online gaming days, I didnt care which RTG, MG or Playtech outfit it was. I just liked to play and play even without cashouts. Only when it came to the crunch and I wanted to cash out did I know they were very unwilling to pay. That was from the now defunct Vegas Strip casinos powered by RTG. I didnt know of this site then but I was lucky to find help from the revered Julie Sidwell of Gambling Grumbles and received muy money. After that I accidentally found this great site but there are many out there who dont know how and where to find info or help and that is where the problem lies. Accredited casinos? I doubt whether those have not graced this forum have ever heard of that term. This is going to be a slow process but eventually the players will get wiser and smarter but mostly after they have received a setback or two fronm these rogues.

 

[babs7262]

Another reason could be this: and again, Ill probably piss some people off but you asked and I want to answer honestly.

First, I wanna say that I dont "go looking for rogues" Before I joined casinomeister and knew about rogues I played at 2 of them , again before I knew about rogue. I dont know if they are rogued now because I havnt played there for different reasons having nothing to do with a problem

One was 32Vegas..This place got ripped to hell here and to be honest, that was the very FIRST online casino I ever played at. I remember it like it was yesterday and I wish I did get screwed LOL. I deposit the $20, get $50, played the WR ( i had to call to find out if it was met because i was so new) and still cashed out for $700. I hit for $500 on one spin w/o even a bonus spin feature. I got paid with no problem but then US was banned and I could no longer play

The other Play United (at the time it was rogued). It was then called Ibetyoubet.com. I played there almost everyday and got several payments very fast.

This is my take on rogue....Every once in awhile they will obviously pick some ppl who win and get paid with ease leaving others in the dark and they leave more in the dark than paid and it gets them rogued.

Now PLEASE: THIS DOES NOT MEAN TO PLAY AT ROGUED AND TAKE A CHANCE. Since joining here, I 99.9 stick with accredited. But you gotta realize, some ppl are gonna be treated at rogued or they wouldnt be in business. I know someone personally who played at club player with no problems EVER and got paid on time all the time.

That is my honest answer and I dont think Rogued should be dismissed in PAB but also not encouraged and should get a small "i told you so" too

 

[classymom]

I too started my online playing at a rouge ( connectocasino) they had these huge bonuses 900 % and I was playing long time on my little deposits. I never won enough to get burned, ( thank God ) I think people play at rouges because they're naive to know any better. Its just like the stories in Rag magazines- my Mother thinks its all true or they cant print it I was under the impression these casinos couldn't exist unless the were honest and paid if you won.
I feel for the people that get burned by these Rouge casinos - because it could have very well have been me. Just my opinion.

 

[jinnia]

I played a true rogue casino, by MY experience with them! To others, it wasn't considered a rogue, for they were treated fairly.

I use to list casinos considered a 'rogue' operation by many on my first little community forum, but didn't make a list of the ones players considered 'good/recommended', or many of the so-called 'rogues' would have also been on the 'good/recommended' list.

It all depends on what forums/webmasters decides for THEIR viewing audience.

I lumped ALL the casinos in a certain group of casinos as being a rogue, just by my unpleasant experience with just one, but soon became more mature in my thinking/feelings, and realized, it was the one casino, not the whole group I had an issue with.

 

[BingoT]

To me in my own opinion they are all Rouge casinos.
They all promise the World to ya.Most all of them have issues on hand.
You just have to watch out for them places that run out of a garage.

 

[SlotMonster]

Happily, my very first casino was bet365 I deposited 200$, received 200$ bonus, cleared it out and cashed out very nice bunch of money
However, I have accounts in many rogue casino, in which I registered in order to receive n/d bonuses (well, I registered many accounts in the accredited MG casinos because I wanted to play 1 Free Hour ) or HUGE bonuses (like 1000% or higher - few times I had made deposits into these casinos and received REALLY bonuses, ). Well, I was ready to lose money I deposited, so when I lost it, I wasn't sad or angry (more money - more fun)and wasn't feeling like committing suicide
So, when I had seen good n/d bonus, or HUGE bonus, I just registered new account and played for fun

 

[swampwitch]

What is meant by "research"? To the uninformed newbie to online gambling, that probably means a simple Google search, which is basically useless unless the uninformed newbie also includes the term "rogue" in the search.
Case in point...Google "Virtual Casino". I only checked the first ten pages, but there is exactly ONE link to any mention of Virtual Casino that isn't positive, or simply an ad for a forum offering free chip codes...Casinomeister.
And that's on page two.
Google "The Virtual Casino", and it's the same story, except page one has the 'meister link. Still, page after page of positiveness.
As I said, the newbie doesn't know the terms "rogue" or "blacklist" when first starting out, so I try really hard to give most newbies the benefit of the doubt when they get screwed as a first timer at a rogue. However, I also have very little sympathy for the old timers who get screwed over...they have no excuse.

 

[WAYLANDER]

Looking HOT today Swampwitch !!
:lick:

WAYLANDER

 

[DiamondGeezer]

The problem is that once you go under the A list Casino's the landscape is not black and white but grey. For example a rogue casino doesn't neccessarily mean a no pay casino. And a casino can go from accredited to rogue in an instant. Also there are a lot of casino's not listed here that are very safe, definitely safer than some casino's that are accreted here.

In short it is very hard to make judgements. Just because a casino is accredited here doesn't guarantee you will be paid. And if you play at a casino that is not here it doesn't mean you won't be paid.

I am not trying to knock CM but at the same time he is an affiliate and doesn't have a magic wand as such. Companies can run out of cash very quickly and the landscape can change very fast. And ofcourse you have to respect the fact that nearly all the safe casino's don't accept US customers.

If you are in Europe I would play at any casino based in Aldernay and then Gibralter. With Malta you have to go 100% on the reputation of the company.

In summary I would say this - Byran is not a god! He is not master of the universe. He is a decent guy doing an excellent job but do your own research. Look at the financial pages and the share prices. Make your own calls.

 

[swampwitch]

And ofcourse you have to respect the fact that nearly all the safe casino's don't accept US customers.

Sorry, but that's not quite true.

While we can't play at old and safe favorites like Intercasino, Lasseters, and 32Red, there are myriad honest and reliable casinos that still want our custom. InetBet, Casino World/USA, Bodog, most of the Microgaming (some minus the dreaded 11 states nonsense), etc.

I'd bet that most US players and/or affiliates don't miss Playtech...at all.

The problem is that once you go under the A list Casino's the landscape is not black and white but grey. For example a rogue casino doesn't neccessarily mean a no pay casino. And a casino can go from accredited to rogue in an instant. Also there are a lot of casino's not listed here that are very safe, definitely safer than some casino's that are accreted here.

I'll agree with that. Even the roguest of the rogues pay, more often than not. As a player I avoid them. As an affiliate I won't touch them...which is why I'm no super affiliate and probably won't ever be.

In summary I would say this - Byran is not a god! He is not master of the universe. He is a decent guy doing an excellent job but do your own research. Look at the financial pages and the share prices. Make your own calls.

I've disagreed with Bryan on more than a few occasions...but I've yet to see him call himself infallible. I doubt he even owns red shoes or a miter.

 

[suzecat]

Also there are a lot of casino's not listed here that are very safe, definitely safer than some casino's that are accreted (sic) here.

Bryan requires a face-to-face meeting as part of the accreditation process. Surely if these very safe casinos would want to come on board they can contact the Meister.

I am not trying to knock CM but at the same time he is an affiliate and doesn't have a magic wand as such. Companies can run out of cash very quickly and the landscape can change very fast. And ofcourse you have to respect the fact that nearly all the safe casino's don't accept US customers.

Sorry mate but this American finds your statement a wee snobbish and very uneducated.

In summary I would say this - Byran is not a god! He is not master of the universe. He is a decent guy doing an excellent job but do your own research. Look at the financial pages and the share prices. Make your own calls.

.

Again, you are trying to irritate moi? Can't recall Bryan ever even suggesting he was a god or master of the universe. What Bryan does at this site for his loyal members is look at financial pages and share prices and make phone calls and emails. Saves me a lot of time!

 

[bb1webs]

Hi all,

well I visited after a long time gone due to just bein' busy. In all due respect (and it is a lot as there was a time when CM was about all I had as credible backing about my rantings on RTGs) I offer a somewhat ... call it biased angle on what are considered rogue casinos.

In almost every case i have agreed with CM, but someone told me that Casino Rewards were on the rogue list (and I hope I'm wrong, I've not enough time to search) in which case I do not condemn his choice but IF that is the case then i must say that life is seldom fair, it is often not what you know but rather who, and what may be bad for some is quite secure for others depending upon who it is that is backing them.

example is that i have promoted Casino Rewards for near ten years and never had a serious complaint and I run a cash-backed guarantee which almost ensures I would hear of any unreasonable problems or issues and that has just not been my experience nor that (obviously) of players who sign through my sites.

Rather than add further self-promotion I offer the advice that choosing an online casino through a reputable portal or gambling guide gives you an added insurance that if you have a problem you can contact that guide and they, with their 100s, if not 1000s of players both present, past and most importantly future, which they represent: will be at risk of loss to that casino in question if they are not treating players sent from that portal or guide site in a fair and honorable manner.

It is for that reason and the years of experience i have invested in working with Casino Rewards, whom I might add have more than once given in to a player's demands even though the player's issue was not necessarily one of actual merit: just to keep that player happy, their reputation in sound standing and from this guide's POV, reason for me to make such posts as this one.

Very few intelligent or even half-assed legit casinos will risk such bad media, loss of so many players ... all to cheat a single player out of whatever amount their issue may add up to being.

which is why it is so important to choose from a reputable guide or portal owner whom you know will be available if you need to contact and that will be a person of their word to the extent the casinos know and respect that fact so they don't try to test the resolve of the affiliate in question.

Lastly is a story I'd like to share. I once when very early on, had listed silversands casino. I got a signed player for one out of every 30 visitors sent there which is amazing by most any standards.

when I noticed the attention I investigated the casino further (keep in mind I was new and had no idea there was such a gap between good and bad casinos) and then I started finding negative media. about three days later I posted warnings for people to NOT play there, they would possibly get cheated. I provided links to other RTGs which were much more reputable.

It hardly made a dent. I finally took down the link to silver sands stating if people were so intent on getting cheated that they'd have to find the place some other way, i would not help them to get cheated any further.

And I run a cash-backed guarantee for cryin' sake! You'd think that would be a heck of a hint that this guy must have a reason for not backing this place, and for calling them all but out and out cheats, and for refusing to provide a link to that site.

But it slowed down very few.

I can say however i did get some emails from people saying they'd remembered me, found the site again and wrote thanking me for trying to warn them.

I understood. I still make that mistake though now days its usually about women and not gambling .

 

[KasinoKing]

In almost every case i have agreed with CM, but someone told me that Casino Rewards were on the rogue list (and I hope I'm wrong, I've not enough time to search) in which case I do not condemn his choice

Time to write a very long (and very good :notworthy) post, but not do a search?

It took me literally less than 20 seconds to click "Rogue Pit" and do a search for "Rewards" - and you will be glad to hear they are not on there!

KK

 

[GaryWatson]

Its very easy to find yourself on a rogue casino.

People are generally just playing for fun.

They are attracted by the big bonuses and think $2000 bonus, cool. I'll give that a shot.

It's fair enough to assume that if they are accepted my major credit companies, they should be safe enough.

It's when they try to cashout, the rogue casino becomes apparent.

I stick with the major bookmaker sites because I feel they honor their bets. I still think the bonus abuse issue is a bit of a piss take and can happen at most sites.

Gambling is a risk at the best of times. People are impulsive. Few people will sit down and look for a problem before it occurs.

They are buying into a dream of winning big.

I hope the regulars on this forum do their research.

I wouldnt expect other people to do the research because their trust has not been broken yet.

 

[suzecat]

I played a true rogue casino, by MY experience with them! To others, it wasn't considered a rogue, for they were treated fairly.

I use to list casinos considered a 'rogue' operation by many on my first little community forum, but didn't make a list of the ones players considered 'good/recommended', or many of the so-called 'rogues' would have also been on the 'good/recommended' list.

It all depends on what forums/webmasters decides for THEIR viewing audience.

I lumped ALL the casinos in a certain group of casinos as being a rogue, just by my unpleasant experience with just one, but soon became more mature in my thinking/feelings, and realized, it was the one casino, not the whole group I had an issue with.

Jinnia, this apology has been long overdue. I know I ranted on you and others (God rest his soul) while defending Virtual and their clones. I am truly very sorry for that. You were right and I should have listened to you. My head was so far up my that I missed your points. My very bad......

 

[jinnia]

Jinnia, this apology has been long overdue. I know I ranted on you and others (God rest his soul) while defending Virtual and their clones. I am truly very sorry for that. You were right and I should have listened to you. My head was so far up my that I missed your points. My very bad......

First I'll say, "No Apology Neccessary"!
Second: Since you gave one, "Apology Accepted"!

Suzecat, it's human nature to not listen and follow.
We ALL have to do thangs our own way, that's the only way we truly learn.

We just do what we feel is right at the time.

Thank you, I appreciate what you said!!

 

[same_old]

Bryan requires a face-to-face meeting as part of the accreditation process. Surely if these very safe casinos would want to come on board they can contact the Meister.



Sorry mate but this American finds your statement a wee snobbish and very uneducated.

.

Again, you are trying to irritate moi? Can't recall Bryan ever even suggesting he was a god or master of the universe. What Bryan does at this site for his loyal members is look at financial pages and share prices and make phone calls and emails. Saves me a lot of time!

Yep I agree there, I know for a fact that bryan does meet people before posting them here at CM. Our guys from Centrebet went over last year to the ICE ( not sure of the name sorry) in Amsterdam, we had a stall there and the marketing guys met Bryan and we are now accredited and posted here.
So we had to travel from Australia just to get on this list so he does have a good evaluation period before posting them here.

 

[USA2112]

I think a big part is due to the overwhelming amount of websites that andvertise rogue casinos, and then on top of that the amount of rogue casinos out there, it's hard for any newbie to online gambling to get lucky and find the right information site before getting burned.

Also, if any newbie finds a website that has allot of freebie hunters that go after all the free chips this could be a potenial wasp nest before they understand that 3/4 of the casinos that offer free chips mainly RTG are rogue.

Just depends whether the google search takes them to the right websites. No doubt the more you know there's less chance of getting burned.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Bryan requires a face-to-face meeting as part of the accreditation process. Surely if these very safe casinos would want to come on board they can contact the Meister.



Sorry mate but this American finds your statement a wee snobbish and very uneducated.

.

Again, you are trying to irritate moi? Can't recall Bryan ever even suggesting he was a god or master of the universe. What Bryan does at this site for his loyal members is look at financial pages and share prices and make phone calls and emails. Saves me a lot of time!

But what good is a face to face meeting with a marketing manager if the casino doesn't pay? You are being very naive to think just because they have shook hands with Bryan that everything will be fine and dandy. It didn't help anyone who played at Hippo Jo when they took off with everyone's cash.

I am not saying it was Bryan's fault or anything but my point is he can't know everything there is to know about every casino's finances. All I am saying is do your own research too and get more than one person's opinion. What harm can that do?

As for the US scene - I wasn't meaning to knock anyone or be arrogant but the fact remains that thanks to the bizarre anti gambling lasws in the US all US players are playing in a totally unregulated field. I mean if Bodog or these other Costa Rican companies decided to stop paying anyone one day what could you do? The difference is that in the Uk he have proper companies with real tangible assets that are highly regulated. It's the same in Australia and there are some encouraging noises from Europe too.

As for companies not on here - I have no idea why that is and it is nor really my business. It is good to see Paddy Power on now but Totesport, Sky Blue Sq and William Hill are not. You can also add Expekt, Mybet and Betsson. Not sure if Partygaming is on her either. Or Boylesports or StanJames.

As for the bit about Bryan being a Master of The Universe - you have got it the wrong way round. I wasn't claiming that Bryan thought he was one but warning against people having blind faith in all that he does. I think some people seem to forget that at the end of the day he is running a business here and has to put bread on the table just like anyone else.

 

[The Dude]

But what good is a face to face meeting with a marketing manager if the casino doesn't pay? You are being very naive to think just because they have shook hands with Bryan that everything will be fine and dandy. It didn't help anyone who played at Hippo Jo when they took off with everyone's cash...

I just want to nip this in the bud real quick because I believe you are making an erroneous implication.

Hippojo was NEVER an accredited casino, nor did I ever give a 100% approval for them. I stated that I knew the operators and they were stand up people. And I think I only mentioned this once. I also offered to mediate any player complaints for them. That's it.

It's funny how some people assume I had their banners plastered all over the place - and giving them kudos left and right. It never happened.

They were never listed here - period.

BTW, I don't meet with only a marketing manager - most times it's with the operator or owner(s).

...I think some people seem to forget that at the end of the day he is running a business here and has to put bread on the table just like anyone else.

Most people who know me know that I am not motivated by money. Never have been. I also consider myself a webmaster - not an affiliate. I think many people get these terms all criss-crossed.

Why do players patronize rogue casinos? There are just as many reasons as there are types of players. There are the players who do not have the skills to do any worthwhile research - either they don't know how to use Google, common sense, or they don't read/speak English well (about 40% of the membership in this forum are non-native English speakers).

Players don't care - they take chances - they're gamblers and this is gambling

There are different types of rogues as well. Casinos that promote themselves with unethical tactics may be roguish to me, but they still may be paying their players.

Look at how the Virtual casinos always are boasting how they pay their players (just as long as you don't win over $1000). They gloat over this, but at the same time pull stunts like the September 11th Twin Tower promotions. Rogue with a capital R - but many players couldn't care less.

In the end - a fool and his money are soon parted. Not much else to say besides that.

 

[The Dude]

Quick note:

As for companies not on here - I have no idea why that is and it is nor really my business. It is good to see Paddy Power on now but Totesport, Sky Blue Sq and William Hill are not. You can also add Expekt, Mybet and Betsson. Not sure if Partygaming is on her either. Or Boylesports or StanJames.

Then just ask:

WH - customer service sucks. Totesport - is getting ready to but we haven't gotten it together yet (same with Bwin). Blue Square was listed but their casino rep moved on - he was never replaced so bye. Partygaming - umm, tricky one. I've had some very public issues with their previous software (iGlobalmedia), a few loose ends, but they have shown an interest to come on board. Betsson - reps are AWOL. Boyslesports - never met them. Stanjames - maybe in the near future.

You see, I don't bring on people unless I've met them, and there is the requirement that they have a rep in the forum. I'm a busy guy and these operators/marketing managers/whomever are just as busy as I am. It may not be as non-complicated as I make it out to be

 

[lauram]

Besides the obvious reasons behind rogue casinos, casinos not paying players or accusing them of bonus abuse or rude customer service and that list goes on.
What makes one bad casino for one player is another players dream casino,
the bad ones must be paying someone or they wouldnt still be around some players must be happy with them or they would of moved on also. There is a lot of reasons people stay with the casino they play with and have had no probs with the bad ones. When that point arrives they will move on, yet on some of the accredited ones ive seen over and over a few of us regulars have moved on from them also for their silly ways. Bonus offers that just are not there late payouts. Play malfunctions and so on. Just like the retail world out there many companies you stay clear of many other customers are very happy with them.

 

[USA2112]

But what good is a face to face meeting with a marketing manager if the casino doesn't pay? You are being very naive to think just because they have shook hands with Bryan that everything will be fine and dandy. It didn't help anyone who played at Hippo Jo when they took off with everyone's cash.

I am not saying it was Bryan's fault or anything but my point is he can't know everything there is to know about every casino's finances. All I am saying is do your own research too and get more than one person's opinion. What harm can that do?

As for the US scene - I wasn't meaning to knock anyone or be arrogant but the fact remains that thanks to the bizarre anti gambling lasws in the US all US players are playing in a totally unregulated field. I mean if Bodog or these other Costa Rican companies decided to stop paying anyone one day what could you do? The difference is that in the Uk he have proper companies with real tangible assets that are highly regulated. It's the same in Australia and there are some encouraging noises from Europe too.

As for companies not on here - I have no idea why that is and it is nor really my business. It is good to see Paddy Power on now but Totesport, Sky Blue Sq and William Hill are not. You can also add Expekt, Mybet and Betsson. Not sure if Partygaming is on her either. Or Boylesports or StanJames.

As for the bit about Bryan being a Master of The Universe - you have got it the wrong way round. I wasn't claiming that Bryan thought he was one but warning against people having blind faith in all that he does. I think some people seem to forget that at the end of the day he is running a business here and has to put bread on the table just like anyone else.

What you say is true, players need to make decissions based off of research of the online gambling industry, the who's who and how they conduct business etc. However, after many of years with doing just that "research" with online gambling the casinomeister website has covered a vast amount of the who's who and how they conduct business that's for sure, was all successful" no, that's just not possible, "Like Hippo joe as you metioned" but for the most part the success rate is high considering this.

There's not one online casino that has to follow any guidelines at any website or care if their casino is rogued or not rogued here at the casinomeister website, it's about ethics, and when casinos show concern about what goes on here with palyers issues that shows good business ethics. It's about mediation not only for the player but the casino as well, I see that as positive for both the palyer and the casino, let the cards fall where they fall and if the players wrong they picked the wrong place to PAB and bring up false accusation against a casino. Casinos that are willing to come forward and resolve players issues bad or good is a step in the right direction and establishes a good reputation. Which gains players trust.

People who play online casinos ask for very little, most important is trust and being paid if they win, have good answers from support when they ask questions and fair terms and conditions.

at the end of the day he is running a business here and has to put bread on the table just like anyone else.

Sure it's about money, but it's also about standing behind players that sign up for accounts and being able to offer some assurance they wont just be ripped off when they do. I'm not saying there's no other websites but this is a good place to start.

For now as to regulations, USA players have no choice but to rely on the casinos availiable to us if we are going to play online. Until the government wises up there's nothing that can be done about that. But that doesn't mean there's no casinos to play at or they will just shut us down and steal our money. Actually, I feel just the opposite at the casinos I play at, when I win they pay when I have questions they answer them, so even though it is a small maket for USA players there's still casinos that can be trusted.

 

[suzecat]

But what good is a face to face meeting with a marketing manager if the casino doesn't pay? You are being very naive to think just because they have shook hands with Bryan that everything will be fine and dandy. It didn't help anyone who played at Hippo Jo when they took off with everyone's cash.

Dude, HippoJo was never accredited by the Meister. Naive........that's fairly laughable!

I am not saying it was Bryan's fault or anything but my point is he can't know everything there is to know about every casino's finances. All I am saying is do your own research too and get more than one person's opinion. What harm can that do?

While I don't expect it would harm me, it would seriously cut into my play time! I look at it this way, experts are there to give me expert advice. If I need medical advice, I go to a specialist............if I am looking for gambling advice, I go to the Meister!

As for the US scene - I wasn't meaning to knock anyone or be arrogant but the fact remains that thanks to the bizarre anti gambling lasws in the US all US players are playing in a totally unregulated field. I mean if Bodog or these other Costa Rican companies decided to stop paying anyone one day what could you do? The difference is that in the Uk he have proper companies with real tangible assets that are highly regulated. It's the same in Australia and there are some encouraging noises from Europe too.

Cool! Now all they need to do is grow some big brass ones and tell the US anti-gambling idiots to stuff it! It is a real drag that US intimidation works so well.

As for companies not on here - I have no idea why that is and it is nor really my business. It is good to see Paddy Power on now but Totesport, Sky Blue Sq and William Hill are not. You can also add Expekt, Mybet and Betsson. Not sure if Partygaming is on her either. Or Boylesports or StanJames.

See Bryan's post above. If you stick around here long enough and pay a bit of attention, you will know what many of us already know...........Bryan looks out for us real good.

As for the bit about Bryan being a Master of The Universe - you have got it the wrong way round. I wasn't claiming that Bryan thought he was one but warning against people having blind faith in all that he does. I think some people seem to forget that at the end of the day he is running a business here and has to put bread on the table just like anyone else.

Bryan is a master of the gaming universe. And he has never let me down, lied to me, nor anything remotely resembling such despicable behavior. And if you think he is all about money, then why does he not bother with flash and bling but does bother with doing what it takes to provide a reliable, trustworthy (and free) service

 

[babs7262]

Why dont we put this one to bed? I dont see anything good coming of this anymore.

FTR: Bryan isnt motivated by money. I not only research some casinos but also did a tiny bit of research on Bryan. Sorry, nothing personal Bryan...not to pry into your life but I like to know whos site Im sharing my personal business on and it was over a year ago anyway

Anyway, I wont share the details I found out myself but Im quite impressed and confident that Bryan does this out of love for the gaming. Trust me, this man doesnt need to push casinos to make a buck!

 

[same_old]

Yeah well and truly put this one to bed as BaBs said, This was not my intention to start arguements when I started this thread and sorry if it came out the wrong way. I have the answers I was after so thank you for that.

 

[The Dude]

Yeah well and truly put this one to bed as BaBs said, This was not my intention to start arguements when I started this thread and sorry if it came out the wrong way. I have the answers I was after so thank you for that.

I don't see arguments - I see a good topic that warrants discussion and needs to be churned up now and then (this isn't the first time).

I not only research some casinos but also did a tiny bit of research on Bryan. Sorry, nothing personal Bryan...not to pry into your life but I like to know whos site Im sharing my personal business on and it was over a year ago anyway

Hopefully Babs didn't find details about that week long party I had at my parent's place in 1976. That wouldn't be good

 

[jetset]

I think there's merit in most of the posts here - a little personal research never hurt anyone, and membership here or at other well established and reputable information portals is part of that precautionary behaviour and definitely can save the online gambler a world of trouble.

IMO membership of a good information portal or two represents probably the major shield for the player, because it improves his or her knowledge of the pastime and what's happening within it.

In the case of Casinomeister.com, it also means an avenue to redress wrongs for the player.

Unfortunately, I think many new players get hammered by the rogues when they first try Internet gambling, because many of them don't take a good look around before plunging in. If we could get newbies to honest portals from the get-go that would be a significant step forward for the industry in my view....but it's a pipe dream at present.

And speaking of honest portals, I think there's sometimes an unfortunate tendency to assume that it's only about the money when it comes to webmasters like Bryan. In my view he has repeatedly shown to both the industry and the players over the past decade that he is a person of integrity with a genuine desire for a better industry and safe and respectful treatment for the players.

 

[babs7262]

Same Ol

I didnt mean to say it wasnt a good post either. I hope you didnt take my post that way!

I guess like me some of us are kinda jaded by the casino industry and jetset and others who said this is right "newbies (like i was once) googles a few and see that "they are the best rated and can be trusted" and believe it because we either didnt do the correct homework or were motivated by bit bonueses

LOL...Bryan, why wasnt I invited! I was in my prime in 1978 LOL. My house party was in 1980 when my parents took a cruise LMAO

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Quick note:



Then just ask:

WH - customer service sucks. Totesport - is getting ready to but we haven't gotten it together yet (same with Bwin). Blue Square was listed but their casino rep moved on - he was never replaced so bye. Partygaming - umm, tricky one. I've had some very public issues with their previous software (iGlobalmedia), a few loose ends, but they have shown an interest to come on board. Betsson - reps are AWOL. Boyslesports - never met them. Stanjames - maybe in the near future.

You see, I don't bring on people unless I've met them, and there is the requirement that they have a rep in the forum. I'm a busy guy and these operators/marketing managers/whomever are just as busy as I am. It may not be as non-complicated as I make it out to be

Bryan thanks for you very detailed responses.

I acknowledge I was incorrect about Hippo Jo and they were never accredited. I believe the correct term was 'pending accreditation'. But it does not matter. It was not your fault in any way just as it would not be your fault if Ladbrokes or 32Red went down. This infact was my point all along - that you can't control events outside your own orbit.

Personally I would like this thread to continue as it is an interesting question - who do you trust? Bryan you say you like to meet the owner/operator but how does that work with public companies like William Hill? Do you pop round to a few hedge fund managers or something? OK I am joking but the serious issue is this - do you shake a guy's hand and then think all is well or is it worth considering the bigger picture - like market capitalisation and what jurisdiction the casino is with? Personally I would consider WH and Bluesq 100% legit but BWin? - c'mon.

Ok here is another one where we will criss/cross! What is all this stuff about being a Webmaster and not an Affiliate? Is Affiliate a dirty word or something? Please excuse me if I am wrong but it was my understanding that you take a % of players losses who sign up from this site. And what is wrong with that? Nothing as far as I am concerned. I mean why not be upfront? I mean a lot seemed to be made of my 'bread on the table' comments but what is wrong with that? I would much rather you were a money making successful affiliate than some kind of ineffectual webmaster. I just don't see how being an affiliate would make you less ethical than you are? I don't see why being an affiliate should make you a bad person. Or why being a webmaster makes you holier than thou.

 

[USA2112]

I think there's merit in most of the posts here - a little personal research never hurt anyone, and membership here or at other well established and reputable information portals is part of that precautionary behaviour and definitely can save the online gambler a world of trouble.

IMO membership of a good information portal or two represents probably the major shield for the player, because it improves his or her knowledge of the pastime and what's happening within it.

In the case of Casinomeister.com, it also means an avenue to redress wrongs for the player.

Unfortunately, I think many new players get hammered by the rogues when they first try Internet gambling, because many of them don't take a good look around before plunging in. If we could get newbies to honest portals from the get-go that would be a significant step forward for the industry in my view....but it's a pipe dream at present.

This is true, but in my opinion certain established and reputable information portals advertise what I'd consider to be rogue casinos, or allow advetisement through their members. So, even for an online gambler to find what seems to be the perfect information portal is not necessarily going to guarantee they won't be taken for a ride. Though owners of these websites offer certain assurances for their players this still does not say the rogue casinos will comply or have too, and what is a rogue casino?

Clearly individual website owners have different views on this, with what is and what isn't a rogue casino, and base their opinions on thier own experiences throughout the years and the information they've aquired, does this necessarily say their right, I'd say no if they're advertising what's consider by most people to be rogue casinos.

It's important for players to get out and do some homework before playing onlines it does help, but there's still other important decissions to be made by players, who's right and who's wrong, once they figure this out it's smoother sailing and can make gambling online a much better experience.

 

[Westland Bowl]

People join rogue casinos because ....they liiike it!! THEY LIIIIIIIKE IIIIIIT!!!:clap:

 

[jetset]

I agree that this discussion/thread is interesting and should continue.

It seems to me that there is consensus that individual research is very important. Which message board the player uses to assist in this precautionary move (or whether this is regarded as an option at all) is an individual choice based on what the player considers to be useful on a particular website, how comfortable he or she is with the other members and the approach and knowledge of the webmaster.

For the individual player, when a website gets this right it becomes a regular stopping place where the news section can be checked for the latest industry developments and new casinos or games; the latest message board comments can be read and perhaps responded to; the progress of a complaint checked; the latest promos assessed and so on.

That's good for the player and good for the webmaster, especially if a reasonably fair, disciplined and diverse membership can be achieved which covers a variety of topics and delivers valuable information and informed opinion.

When all that comes together over time and it is combined with a large membership and a trusted and balanced webmaster, the website becomes influential in an industry sense, and that can improve both the information it acquires and the webmaster's contacts and ability to solve player problems.

For the webmaster, there's a significant investment involved in maintaining a site like Casinomeister - admin and communication costs, legal fees and attending widespread international conferences to interact with major global experts as well as operators and affiliate managers...and even deliver papers or chair discussion panels.

In response to DiamondGeezer's comment on the individual webmasters' ability to assess accredited or rogue casinos, I would suggest that the sum of all the above factors places the 'Meister in a better position than most when it comes to a judgement call. Who to accept or reject on this website (and I know for a fact that he does reject approaches from operators with whom he is uncomfortable) or who to cast into the rogue pit, where the popularity of the website equates to widespread bad publicity for the rogue.

IMO, that judgement call may be generally personal and therefore to some extent subjective....but it is also in practical terms an effective guide - I emphasise the word 'guide' - for the player.

 

[The Dude]

...I believe the correct term was 'pending accreditation'.

You're right - I forgot that I had stated that they were being reviewed for coming on board, which served as a green light for a number of players. Live and learn - that episode sucked for everyone.

Personally I would like this thread to continue as it is an interesting question - who do you trust? Bryan you say you like to meet the owner/operator but how does that work with public companies like William Hill? Do you pop round to a few hedge fund managers or something? OK I am joking but the serious issue is this - do you shake a guy's hand and then think all is well or is it worth considering the bigger picture - like market capitalisation and what jurisdiction the casino is with? Personally I would consider WH and Bluesq 100% legit but BWin? - c'mon.

WH is totally legit - and so is Bluesq, but perhaps one problem is that WH is so huge, they are stretched out and distanced from their customer service. It is crucial that online customers have prompt intelligent CSRs at their service. I've met their managers a few times - not only their marketing team, but people who manage the casino and sportsbook, and that's were things need to come together better.

It's not meeting people so I can have a handshake, drink a beer and have a free meal. I live in Bierland and my wife cooks better than most chefs at any posh resteraunt. It's about understanding business philosophy; how one approaches and treats players. I need to understand where they are coming from - how they treat "advantage" play. How they detect fraudsters, what constitutes fraud, etc. Affiliate managers have a grasp on this, but in many cases, they are but a cog in the wheel - especially with the larger casinos. Affiliate managers are concerned with marketing issues in most cases - even though most are in direct contact with the casino management, it's important for me to have direct access. You can't get this via emails.

I find that the smaller casinos are run much tighter; thus the communication and problem solving is expedited: Roxy Casino group, 32Red, 3Dice, iNetbet etc., for example. I actually prefer the smaller well managed companies compared to the giants. Lord have mercy when the Vegas casinos come online - you're going to see a real mess

Ok here is another one where we will criss/cross! What is all this stuff about being a Webmaster and not an Affiliate? Is Affiliate a dirty word or something? Please excuse me if I am wrong but it was my understanding that you take a % of players losses who sign up from this site. And what is wrong with that? Nothing as far as I am concerned. I mean why not be upfront? I mean a lot seemed to be made of my 'bread on the table' comments but what is wrong with that? I would much rather you were a money making successful affiliate than some kind of ineffectual webmaster. I just don't see how being an affiliate would make you less ethical than you are? I don't see why being an affiliate should make you a bad person. Or why being a webmaster makes you holier than thou.

It has to do with the definition of "affiliate" - nothing about being a "Popemeister"

Advertising at Casinomeister is just that - advertising. Many players assume that all casino advertising is a revenue share model - it's not. A lot of the advertising is based on a flat fee - it doesn't make a difference whether or not a player wins or loses. It's like reading a magazine or newspaper - advertisers pay for an ad - newspaper publishes it.

So the term "affiliate" has some baggage that should not be applied here. And yeah, I know I was awarded "Affiliate of the Year 2007" at CAP (which is fantastic by they way) even though I'm not much of an affiliate. It was an honor bestowed to me for the work done at Casinomeister - not for being an "affiliate". Heck - I wasn't even a member of CAP when I got the award (I am now)

But if they called it Casino Webmaster Programs, nobody would be able to pronounce CWP

This is true, but in my opinion certain established and reputable information portals advertise what I'd consider to be rogue casinos, or allow advetisement through their members. So, even for an online gambler to find what seems to be the perfect information portal is not necessarily going to guarantee they won't be taken for a ride. Though owners of these websites offer certain assurances for their players this still does not say the rogue casinos will comply or have too, and what is a rogue casino?

Max receives a lot of PABs for casinos that are totally 100% in the rogue pit. (Virtual casino group for example). I'll have him start surveying these players to find out how and why they made their decisions to play there.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

It has to do with the definition of "affiliate" - nothing about being a "Popemeister"

Advertising at Casinomeister is just that - advertising. Many players assume that all casino advertising is a revenue share model - it's not. A lot of the advertising is based on a flat fee - it doesn't make a difference whether or not a player wins or loses. It's like reading a magazine or newspaper - advertisers pay for an ad - newspaper publishes it.

So the term "affiliate" has some baggage that should not be applied here. And yeah, I know I was awarded "Affiliate of the Year 2007" at CAP (which is fantastic by they way) even though I'm not much of an affiliate. It was an honor bestowed to me for the work done at Casinomeister - not for being an "affiliate". Heck - I wasn't even a member of CAP when I got the award (I am now)

But if they called it Casino Webmaster Programs, nobody would be able to pronounce CWP


.

So you didn't do a Groucho Marx on them then?

I do understand your issues with the affiliate tag. But as a player it is not something I spend too much time thinking about. It is not very important to me how all the financial stuff is structured. A good affiliate is ten times better than an ineffectual webmaster for instance. I don't see the affiliate concept as being bad in itself. I mean you get good estate agents and bad ones, just as there are good and bad operators in any profession. I would even argue that you would be better off sticking with affiliate and drag the name up to a better place. I understand that a lot of your work is like a negociator or a broker but for me 'Webmaster' doesn't quite hit the spot. While this may all be a bit trivial it sort of makes quite a complicated area even more complicated.

It was good to hear more about what goes into choosing a casino for accreditation. The only thing I would say is that could player experiences be part of this process? To take the case of William Hill as a player I have found their cs to be first rate. They have an 0800 number for UK and have UK operators too. In three years I have only had to call once anyway. Infact personally I have found all the major Uk operators very good on the cs front. The only exception has been Sky, who constantly ignore emails for some reason but are at least contactable on the phone.

Concerning you better experiences with smaller companies - what concerns me is that if we for example go into a global recession how financially strong are these small operators? If the ecomomic situation got really bad I could see quite a few of smaller companies going out of business. Since CM started there has never been a major economic downturn like this and you do have to wonder what impact it could have for the casino industry.

I do respect the fact your methods have worked well for you but I am just wondering if things may be different in future. Keep up the good work though .

 

[babs7262]

I would like to apologize. At first it looked like it was going to turn sour but then Bryan came in and cleared a few things up. I too think it shouldnt be put to bed anymore. I just didnt want it to get derailed or silly with people judging others for where they play or start picking at things that has nothing to do with the OP's question.

Sorry guys!

 

[The Dude]

...I understand that a lot of your work is like a negociator or a broker but for me 'Webmaster' doesn't quite hit the spot.

Ah, but it kinda does for me. I create the graphics. I work on the HTML. I run this forum, produce the webcasts, write the newsletters - the videocasts are on the horizon where I do the filming, flash animations, editing and producing. So there is much more webmastering going on than what most people are probably imagining

It was good to hear more about what goes into choosing a casino for accreditation. The only thing I would say is that could player experiences be part of this process? To take the case of William Hill as a player I have found their cs to be first rate. They have an 0800 number for UK and have UK operators too.

My experience with them has been the opposite, but that was a couple of years ago. I'm hopeful things have changed since then. It would probably just take getting one of their managers to agree to register in our forum and keep his or her ear to the ground in order to be listed here.

Concerning you better experiences with smaller companies - what concerns me is that if we for example go into a global recession how financially strong are these small operators? If the ecomomic situation got really bad I could see quite a few of smaller companies going out of business. Since CM started there has never been a major economic downturn like this and you do have to wonder what impact it could have for the casino industry...

I disagree since we already have had a few serious hits in this industry; it's proven to be quite resilient. One minor but still serious occurrence: Paypal and major Credit Cards pulling out of the US market.

But then there was 911 which caused serious economic damage, and thus began the US witch-hunt for Al Qaeda money launderers. And of course the UEIGA which spelt the end for the US market for most casinos. So we've probably seen the worse (I hope) since everything seems to be pointing to regulation.

IMO, the world economies are going to get worse mainly from the inflated fuel prices which affect everything. But I really don't feel that this will keep people from playing poker or slots online. In fact, they'll probably play more since they can't afford to drive/fly to the nearest casino

 

[loganberry]

Sorry Suzecat,

But you have just lost my vote.

Your response to DiamondGeezer's post is the most blinkered I have come across in quite a while.

You took delight in denigrating everything he said - you couldn't recognise any merit in any of his comments and worse, you were not open to a reasonable debate. Instead your mantra was: Bryan says so, therefore it is.

Hippo Jo Accredited? Laughable! But Bryan corrected himself in a later post - he had them pending accreditation.

Do some of your own research into Casinos? That's right, it would cut into your playing time too much, and anyway, Bryan is God and you trust him implicitly! Before you go to your specialist don't you actually try and find out further details relating to your illness so that you will be in a position to ask some pertinent questions?

Yada! Yada! Yada!

This forum is about debate - or at least, it should be - and that doesn't mean never questioning or disagreeing with anyone's comments. But taking the 'Bryan line' to extremes by refusing to question anything he does, and rebutting everyone else who does, doesn't generate healthy discussions either.

You used to be very fair. What has happened to you? All I can say is please - bring back the old SuzeCat. The one whose posts I used to admire so much.

 

[suzecat]

Hi Loganberry! Quite a smattering of my debate technique.....ok you don't like it....got it.....maybe I won't run for office. Please look at the "offending" post again, the "laughable" bit was in response to being called naive..........didn't have anything to do with HippoJo and it's accreditation -- or lack thereof. And I suppose it's fair to say it drives me nuts when new members try to denegrate Bryan and the system he has developed. That seems rude and caustic to me. Like going to someone's home and critiquing the furnishings. I just would never do that.

 

[classymom]

Hi Loganberry! Quite a smattering of my debate technique.....ok you don't like it....got it.....maybe I won't run for office. Please look at the "offending" post again, the "laughable" bit was in response to being called naive..........didn't have anything to do with HippoJo and it's accreditation -- or lack thereof. And I suppose it's fair to say it drives me nuts when new members try to denegrate Bryan and the system he has developed. That seems rude and caustic to me. Like going to someone's home and critiquing the furnishings. I just would never do that.

I totally agree - One of the reasons I come to this forum is I like the Furnishings ( people and opinions) I have been to other forums and am still a member to a few, but I like what I read here and the rules that keep the order. If I didn't like it here I would move on, not criticize how the owner runs the place. Just my opinion.

 

[USA2112]

Max receives a lot of PABs for casinos that are totally 100% in the rogue pit. (Virtual casino group for example). I'll have him start surveying these players to find out how and why they made their decisions to play there.

This would be interesting to know, especially where they signed up.

 

[lots0]

Rogue/blacklisted casinos are a problem of many facets.

I see a lot of reasons why people sign up with Rogue online casino outfits (I'll leave the subject of just what is a rogue casino for a little later).

The biggest single reason I see people sign up with 'Rogue' online Casinos is the lack of regulation for online casinos in the US and parts of Europe. I don't have the numbers, but I'll wager most all the complaints about rogue casinos here at CM come from Americans or European countries where online gaming is in legal limbo. Without regulation, the bad guys flourish and the players are ALL just sheep for the shearing.

The second biggest reason I see for people hooking up with Rogue Casinos, is the definition of just what is or is not a 'Rogue Casino' among all the different gambling related websites. Bryan here at CM was the first to coin the term “Rogue Casino” for use about online casinos. Not to mention that Bryan has spent an entire decade trying to determine good online casinos from bad ones. So I believe his opinion about what is or is not a Rogue Casino is a very very good place to start. However having said that, there are times I disagree with Bryan on different casinos and what their status (Rogue or not Rogue) should be. Every gambling related site that has a Rogue list has a different opinion about what site is Rogue and what site is not Rogue. Without a standardized definition of what is a Rogue across most all of the popular gambling sites, there will be far too many times when players that do use due dillegence and check the search engines to find out about an online casino will get contrary information about the casino from different websites. One gambling site says it's a Rogue Casino to be avoided and a different gambling site says it's the best damn casino online...

Everyone has their own opinion about who or what is or is not a Rogue. The fact of the matter is you will find no two Rogue casino lists on two different websites that are exactly the same. I know the list on my site is different than Bryan's list and I know the lists on other sites are different from mine and from his.

So just what is a Rogue Online Casino, is a huge question that really needs to be answered by Regulation. Regulated casinos = not rogue... Non regulated casino = rogue... very simple.

Third reason I see people signing up with Rogue casinos are the many affiliates promoting well known bad guys.

I think most reasonable people will agree that Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet are truly “Rogue” in just about every sense of the word. Yet there are well known, well funded (and supposedly well respected) casino affiliate recruiting, casino affiliate forums and casino affiliate program review sites out there that have out right stated that they will still promote the bad guys at AP/UB to new webmasters simply because the bad guys support their business.

The guy that made that statement about AP/UP supporting his business, is supposed to be one of the leaders in the casino affiliate industry... And I hate to say it but with so called “leaders” with personal morals like that, I find it amazing the entire industry is not in far far worse shape than it already is.

However, in my opinion, the main reason people sign up with “Rogue” online casinos, goes back to my first point... Incompetent and/or corrupt elected American and European political officials who refuse to regulate... Refuse to regulate... When the people that are actually involved with online casinos, players, good casinos and even good casino affiliates not only want it, but are crying out for it...

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[USA2112]

I agree that this discussion/thread is interesting and should continue.

It seems to me that there is consensus that individual research is very important. Which message board the player uses to assist in this precautionary move (or whether this is regarded as an option at all) is an individual choice based on what the player considers to be useful on a particular website, how comfortable he or she is with the other members and the approach and knowledge of the webmaster.

For the individual player, when a website gets this right it becomes a regular stopping place where the news section can be checked for the latest industry developments and new casinos or games; the latest message board comments can be read and perhaps responded to; the progress of a complaint checked; the latest promos assessed and so on.

That's good for the player and good for the webmaster, especially if a reasonably fair, disciplined and diverse membership can be achieved which covers a variety of topics and delivers valuable information and informed opinion.

When all that comes together over time and it is combined with a large membership and a trusted and balanced webmaster, the website becomes influential in an industry sense, and that can improve both the information it acquires and the webmaster's contacts and ability to solve player problems.

I understand the point, but to google casino watchdog the #1 spot comes up casinowatchdog.blah blah and on the first page they have Prism casino with this comment "Great casino odds, especially blackjack Highly Recommended By The Players!" this is BS and would turn knowledge players around and out the door, however for the newbie this reads money trap especially when the website uses casinowatchdog as their url and promotes rogue casinos of the worst kind. #2 spot is Casinomeister which is good but I think you see my point. Maybe it's time for a website that focuses on rogue webmasters and affiliates to shed some light on the subject.

IMO, the world economies are going to get worse mainly from the inflated fuel prices which affect everything. But I really don't feel that this will keep people from playing poker or slots online. In fact, they'll probably play more since they can't afford to drive/fly to the nearest casino

I agree, it cost $50 to drive to the casino and back now so I play more online at this point. Go Bush....

 

[USA2112]

However, in my opinion, the main reason people sign up with Rogue online casinos, goes back to my first point... Incompetent and/or corrupt elected American and European political officials who refuse to regulate... Refuse to regulate... When the people that are actually involved with online casinos, players, good casinos and even good casino affiliates not only want it, but are crying out for it...

Regulation is a big part of the problem, standards need to be put in place and followed. If or when that happens you will come up with the same arguement there is now, who's rogue and who's not, even after regulations or put in place it will take time to change the industry.

For now though the control is in the hands of each webmaster or affiliate. I don't believe everyone has to agree 100% either, but casinos that are known to be rogue due to their past history of cheating players should not be advertised by any webmaster or affiliate, even though there is a line this would help to start changing the industry now.

 

[loganberry]

And I suppose it's fair to say it drives me nuts when new members try to denegrate Bryan and the system he has developed

Here we go again..New Kid on the Block bashing. Hasn't been here long enough to be entitled to an opinion, eh? Because that is what it was - an opinion. And as for denegrating Bryan? Where did that come from? His comments were polite, rational and well structured at all times.

What drives me nuts is the attitude of some of the more established members - the Thought Police - trying to dictate their views to the lesser beings who are newbies.

If I didn't like it here I would move on, not criticize how the owner runs the place. Just my opinion.

It's really sad you feel like that, because that it the point of an OPEN forum. No-one and nothing is exempt. If Bryan is beyond criticism, which is what you are effectively stating, then the glory days of censorship have truly arrived.

And expressing one's view doesn't mean the the poster doesn't like it here.

If I didn't like it here I would move on...

About to do that. Now. I believe in freedom of thought and speech, but the CM Thought Police have finally worn me out.

So Bryan - get me outta here, Please. NOW. I'm done!


Sorry for the thread derail, guys. It won't happen again. Trust me!

 

[LaurieJim]

Here we go again..New Kid on the Block bashing. Hasn't been here long enough to be entitled to an opinion, eh? Because that is what it was - an opinion. And as for denegrating Bryan? Where did that come from? His comments were polite, rational and well structured at all times.

What drives me nuts is the attitude of some of the more established members - the Thought Police - trying to dictate their views to the lesser beings who are newbies.



It's really sad you feel like that, because that it the point of an OPEN forum. No-one and nothing is exempt. If Bryan is beyond criticism, which is what you are effectively stating, then the glory days of censorship have truly arrived.

And expressing one's view doesn't mean the the poster doesn't like it here.



About to do that. Now. I believe in freedom of thought and speech, but the CM Thought Police have finally worn me out.

So Bryan - get me outta here, Please. NOW. I'm done!


Sorry for the thread derail, guys. It won't happen again. Trust me!

.i really wish you would reconsider leaving lizz, we all can agree to dis -agree with each other and still remain forum friends.everyone will not always agree with the next poster and visa- versa and thats what makes it a good forum. if you do leave i wish for you nothing but the best but you have been on here to long to just up and quit but thats your bizz and my dimes worth of advice.....................laurie

 

[KikisMom]

Hi folks,

I have been working writing copy for the industry on and off for about 3 years now. I've mostly worked on affiliate sites, but I've done promoting/SEO for an actual provider.

Most of the affiliates I've worked with have NO IDEA about anything casino related. They know about SEO, period. Let a lowly content writer like me tell them that they're making their money on a rogue casino that's cheating players, and they'll tell me to mind my own business. I've got a Kiki to feed and clothe, so I can't pick my clients.

When I worked at a provider, I was asked to write a press release with out-and-out lies, and I told the bosses that it was going to work against them, and they're like "stop being holier than the pope."

There are some nasties in the business.

Oh, and LOADS of users have never seen this site.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

everyone will not always agree with the next poster and visa- versa.....................laurie

maybe you meant imposter, know what I mean Laurie......you should!!!